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Best way to view it as a Transformers fan is to stop thinking it is G1 cause it is not.

I don't understand why fans (not just TF fans) have a hard time accepting new revisions of old favorites. I like things when they have some variety. A good example is "GI Joe: Renegades." I love seeing the GI Joe franchise totally reimagined like that.

 

An example of how things can get boring, IMO, is the "Spectacular Spider-Man" series. How many times do we have to see origin stories of those villains? That's why I liked "Spider-Man Unlimited." It was totally new and fresh idea with Spidey.

 

Speaking strictly for myself, it's not the change that I am having difficulty assimilating. I'm all for change. Rewrite, reboot, whatever you feel you need to do in order to establish your product--go for it. Take the Age of Apocalypse stroyline Marvel ran over a decade ago. I loved it, and (most) everything was radically changed. Here's my thing, though (purely from my own experience):

 

You're working from the standpoint of something that has nearly 30 years worth of source material. Michael Bay did not create Transformers. His movies are, whether he wants to admit it or not, a homage. The insult comes because he has made it a point to acknowledge almost none of the source material his homage is based on. A few years back, a fairly successful independent comic-book creator/publisher came to me and a couple of my associates and basically "gave" us his creation. He was kind of burnt on it, kind of out of fresh ideas, but mostly he was having difficulty balancing the book and his family...so he decided to focus on his family. He did still want to see his creation out there, in some capacity. He didn't want to cancel. So, he basically gave us the backstory, a couple of character models, and told us we could--outside of the name of the book--CHANGE WHATEVER WE WANTED TO. It was all fair game.

 

Know what we did? The book was originally successful without us. It sold quite a bit without us. The book established a nice fan base without us. So we kept it as close to the source material as possible. We updated peripheral elements, we added a few characters, but the main theme of the book was kept intact, and the source material was acknowledged and followed. We had millions of ideas and concepts and story arcs...but it was important to us to ensure that they fit into the pre-established mythos. He was very appreciative, and it was just plain respectful to the pre-existing mythos. That's my take on it.

 

The Bayverse, however, is not giving the slightest indication that they respect anything about the franchise or the fans who grew up immersed in the mythos. I think I can safely speak for most (if not all) of the people on this board: Transformers holds a special place in our hearts and minds. It is something that some of us grew up with. It is something that others found later on. It is something that still others have re-discovered. It is worth more to me than just something to be changed for the mere sake of changing it, with neither thought nor care to the established fanbase. I'm sorry, but I refuse to look at it any other way. It's not the designs that bother me. Most of them, I like. It is the intent behind it. By now, no one is even going to attempt to argue that Michael Bay does not have complete disdain for the longtime Transformers fan. No one is going to even attempt that. With that being said, why would some of us not reciprocate that disdain?

 

This is not about being fearful of change. For me, this is about being utterly insulted as a Transformers fan.

It was simple for me; fugly robot designs.

 

Ugh.

This is not about being fearful of change. For me, this is about being utterly insulted as a Transformers fan.

 

Hear! Hear! Transformers was never about tits, weed, or cursing. I took my young nephew to ROTF thinking that Bey would tone down the crude humor, and was utterly appalled. Transformers was my moral compass as a kid his age. I grew up knowing that greed [Megatron], envy [starscream], deceit, corruption, and everything else the Decepticons were about would be overcome by logic, sacrifice, humility, and good will. I desired to be of good character just like the Autobots. These movies have some twisted undertones to which my nephew was subjected, and for that I will never forgive Paramount/Bay's movie franchise. Needless to say, my nephew and I still enjoy the fun, logic, and engineering of the puzzle action figures. In the end, I decided to buy the Matrix collection of the G1 cartoon for Brenden - that way a misinterpretation of an homage would be nullified.

Best way to get more guys into it, stick a hot girl in it :P

all men, of all ages love cars.

 

Yeah well...You'd be wrong...

 

I love TRAINS. I don't give 2 shits about cars

 

I was speaking in generalities. There are odd balls anywhere you look. :tfevil

 

Best way to get more guys into it, stick a hot girl in it :P

 

Hence, the BT line introducing... BTA! lol

By now, no one is even going to attempt to argue that Michael Bay does not have complete disdain for the longtime Transformers fan. No one is going to even attempt that. With that being said, why would some of us not reciprocate that disdain?

Because:

a: Two wrongs don't make a right. Do we really want to lower ourselves to that level or maintain the moral high ground?

b: It doesn't accomplish anything constructive.

 

Hear! Hear! Transformers was never about tits, weed, or cursing. I took my young nephew to ROTF thinking that Bey would tone down the crude humor, and was utterly appalled. Transformers was my moral compass as a kid his age. I grew up knowing that greed [Megatron], envy [starscream], deceit, corruption, and everything else the Decepticons were about would be overcome by logic, sacrifice, humility, and good will. I desired to be of good character just like the Autobots. These movies have some twisted undertones to which my nephew was subjected, and for that I will never forgive Paramount/Bay's movie franchise. Needless to say, my nephew and I still enjoy the fun, logic, and engineering of the puzzle action figures. In the end, I decided to buy the Matrix collection of the G1 cartoon for Brenden - that way a misinterpretation of an homage would be nullified.

The movies were rated M which means that they're recommended for audiences aged 15 or over. I personally think that the M rating is a load of crock since it's just a recommendation and nobody can enforce under 15s from attending. They should just get rid of it all together. It's a pointless limbo that exists between PG (kids can see it with parental guidance) and MA15+ (ONLY audiences 15 or over can see it and persons under 15 are prohibited from viewing).

 

 

 

I grew up knowing that greed [Megatron], envy [starscream], deceit, corruption, and everything else the Decepticons were about would be overcome by logic, sacrifice, humility, and good will. I desired to be of good character just like the Autobots. These movies have some twisted undertones to which my nephew was subjected, and for that I will never forgive Paramount/Bay's movie franchise. Needless to say, my nephew and I still enjoy the fun, logic, and engineering of the puzzle action figures. In the end, I decided to buy the Matrix collection of the G1 cartoon for Brenden - that way a misinterpretation of an homage would be nullified.

IMO the first movie captured all those G1 virtues that you described, but it was Revenge of the Fallen that went whacky and off the beaten track. Btw, those virtues aren't exclusive to each of those factions. G1 had Autobots who succumbed to greed, envy and corruption (e.g. Flame, Grimlock etc.) and there were Decepticons who exhibited logic (e.g. Shockwave), sacrifice and even good will (e.g. Scorponok, Overlord, Carnivac etc.)

 

But I disagree with the idea that Bay hates TF fans. Their are a lot of homages and parallels to the existing mythos in the movies.

I don't think Michael Bay hates fans, but I don't think he treats the franchise with enough respect (which then makes fans feel insulted).

I don't think Michael Bay hates fans, but I don't think he treats the franchise with enough respect (which then makes fans feel insulted).

 

I think its the fans that are making the mistake here, since the Transformers live action are not just being made for the fans but for the world. The true fans have very little to do with it

Yeah, she's not very attractive IRL (mediocre at best). All the tatts everywhere are a turn off for me too.

 

This!

 

Another example of Michael Bay's idiocy. Hiring the human trainwreck to be the "pretty girl" in the movies. Every scene with her in ROTF made me gag

 

I love tats. I personally like her and I think she's above average as far as looks go. Definitely better then Hunting-Ashley-Whatever. Anyone seen Jennifer's Body? That was the best comedy released that year! And it wasnt even a comedy! Brilliant!

 

If I were Megan Fox I wouldnt want to get close enough to sign autographs for any of you. Nerds. :tfevil

 

all men, of all ages love cars.

 

Yeah well...You'd be wrong...

 

I love TRAINS. I don't give 2 shits about cars

 

Are you 80? Tell me theres not a creepy train set in your creepy basement JK.

I think its the fans that are making the mistake here, since the Transformers live action are not just being made for the fans but for the world. The true fans have very little to do with it

I understand that the movie needs to appeal to a wide audience, and I agree with that. The failure of 1986's Transformers The Movie was that it was too fan-centric and non-fans hated it. But at the same time, giving a broad appeal doesn't mean you have to compromise and make a less than spectacular movie.

 

I agree. I think he gives the Transformers plenty of respect. When you consider the world wide audience, outside of TF fans, all they care about as far as TFs is that there are vehicles the change into giant robots. The movie probably could have used any assortment of characters, classic or new, and most non-Tfan movie-goers wouldn't have mided at all. They probably could have made it without Autobots and Decepticons and instead just go with alien robots that can hide themselves invading Earth. The movie could have been a lot worse in regard to its respect of the TF mythos.

I don't think you're giving the public enough credit. They're not that stupid. When I critique Transformers I try to look at it objectively and not necessarily through fanboy goggles. And you can see the same thing with a lot of other films -- many of them are quite good movies despite being modified for a general audience. In some cases these modifications are good, in other cases maybe not. You look at movies like Star Trek (the latest one), The Lord of the Rings, Star Wars (esp. the original trilogy), Dark Knight etc. -- all great movies loved by fans and the general public alike that didn't have to be significantly "compromised" in order to be accessible to the public IMO.

 

You look at a lot of the criticisms I've made about Revenge of the Fallen... would changing any of those things make it less accessible? For example:

+ Less immature JUVENILE toilet humour. Having craploads of sexual and drug references thrown in our faces really ISN'T that funny.

+ More character development for the Transformers. Treat them like characters, NOT set pieces or just "giant robot monsters, GRAAAARGH!" -- they're meant to be "people" damnit. Just because they're aliens doesn't mean you can't make the audience relate to them -- look at E.T.

+ Being consistent with reality is good. Sam can't view the Pyramids of Giza from Petra, and he certainly can't walk from there across Sinai (totally ignoring the existence of Israel/Palestine) in the span of a few hours. Rubbish.

+ The Twins AREN'T funny. One of them made a homophobic joke. WHAT?? That's just downright offensive. Jokes based on prejudice _isn't_ fcuking funny in the slightest.

+ The movie was too damn long and just dragged. Long movies are okay if they ENGAGE the audience throughout, like the Lord of the Rings. But I found this movie wasn't good at doing that. It feels laborious to watch it straight from start to end without pause.

+ There's NO need for Jetfire to be such a constant goofball. It's really disconcerting to listen to him give the audience important plot exposition whilst farting a parachute and falling all over himself.

 

All of the comments I've made are irrelevant to my opinions as a Transformers fan, but simply more as a movie viewer.

 

I give the movie a ton of credit for putting in classic characters and having them display personalities close to the originals in a lot of cases. And even bringing in Peter Cullen to voice Prime...

Cos executing Demolishor is totally all about freedom being the right of sentient beings. Okay, totally ignoring all other Optimus Primes, this is even contradictory within the movie continuity alone. If I'd NEVER seen Transformers before and I saw that scene, I'd think, hang on a minute... in the First Movie:

1. Optimus Prime said that freedom was the right of all sentient beings,

2. Optimus Prime never killed anyone in cold blood. He killed Bonecrusher because they were engaged in deadly combat, NOT as the execution of a defeated and defenceless opponent. Killing Bonecrusher and Grindor is like Obi-Wan Kenobi killing Darth Maul - kill or be killed. Killing Demolishor was like Anakin Skywalker executing Count Dooku -- the enemy was HARMLESS at the time.

 

I love tats. I personally like her and I think she's above average as far as looks go.

I've never met anyone who's met Fox IRL and said that she was hot. Everyone I know who's met her IRL, including me, all think she's rather ordinary. She's not ugly, but she's not hawt either. But I agree that Fox was a better choice than Rosie Huntington-Whiteley. At least Fox was aspiring to be an actress, whereas RHW isn't. Criticise Fox's acting all you like, but at least she TRIES. RHW on the other is a lingerie model - that's her career. Film acting doesn't play a part of that. I was in favour of losing Fox, but I don't agree with replacing her with someone potentially worse. (-_-)

 

There are beautiful actresses out there who can actually act well.

 

Look, just because Transformers has to appeal to the general public does NOT mean we have to drop our standards. It means that we need to have realistic standards (e.g. don't expect Megatron to be a hand gun), but it doesn't mean we have to accept a less-than-fantastic movie.

 

P.S.: My wife is a non-Transformers fan (she didn't even know what Transformers were until she met me). She likes the first movie but dislikes ROTF.