I'd rather see the Transformers continue as CGI Animated films. Transformers Prime is a great example of what could be. I'd be happy if they took a break and waited at least 10 years before they tried a reboot. I don't hate the Transformers films, actually like them very much. Hell, I even like RoTF which I hated the first time I saw it has grown on me after multiple viewings over the last year and a half. I look forward to Dark of the Moon, and who knows where the live action series will go. Just cause it may be Bay's last Transformers movie, doesn't mean its the last Live action film in this series. Someone else could always continue on and do another trilogy using the same characters. Bay love him or hate him, reintroduced Transformers to the masses, in a way not seen since the mid 80s. I firmly believe that without the success of Bay's films, we wouldn't be seeing the awesome figures and lines which have come out over the last few years.

I agree that the popularity of Transformers has boomed since Bay's films came out (Hasbro's sales figures doubled after the movie franchise came out), but would like to point out that Transformers was already really successful on its own before the movie. The first real revival of Transformers happened with Beast Wars -- something that many fans consider to be the "Transformers Renaissance." Generation 2 failed to revive the franchise and Transformers was nearly dead by 1995 - then after Beast Wars came out, Transformers shot up to be the 3rd best selling toy line in 1996-97 after Star Wars and Toy Story. Then we went from Beast Wars to Robots In Disguise which led to Binaltech/Alternators then the Unicron Trilogy yada yada yada. Hasbro decided to invest in a live action film because they saw how successful Transformers had become (I first heard news that Hasbro were seriously contemplating doing a live action movie in 2003).

 

And I think a lot of the awesome figures we saw in recent years we still would have seen even without the movie franchise. Universe/Generations/Reveal The Shield are essentially a continuation of Classics which came out in 2006, a year before the movie. Animated was actually something Hasbro had prepared before the movie came out as their 'back up' plan in case the movie franchise tanked (because before the movie came out there was no solid guarantee that it would succeed) - hence why Animated is so aesthetically and dynamically different from the movie franchise. Now that Hasbro's satisfied with the movie franchise's success, they're now starting to allow the movie to influence the next kid's line of TFs (Prime). Hasbro's clever enough not to put all their eggs in one basket with the movie franchise, so really - if it weren't for the movie, really the only toys we would have missed would have been the movie toys. We still would have gotten Universe, Generations, Reveal The Shield, Animated etc. The only upcoming franchise we wouldn't be getting would be Prime (as that's clearly movie influenced).

 

So while there's no denying that the movie franchise has seen a massively significant boom for Transformers, I wouldn't go so far as to say that it's the "be all and end all" for the franchise either.

Now I know George Lucas cops a lot of flak about the prequel trilogy for Star Wars, but despite what you may think of those films, Lucas DOES care about Star Wars. The whole story about Anakin Skywalker and the Clone Wars was something Lucas had envisaged back in the 1970s while he was writing Episode IV (hence why it makes references to prequel events and also why the first SW movie was ultimately called "Episode IV" and not "Episode I"). Yeah he made some mistakes, but there were signs that he tried to improve on them as he went along. For example:

+ The amount of dialogue and screen time for Jar Jar Binks was significantly reduced in Episode II and in Ep III he was only seen briefly at Padmé Amidala's funeral and had NO dialogue.

+ He enlisted an assistant writer for Ep II (can you imagine Bay sharing his directing role with an assistant director? He is notoriously bossy and controlling)

+ He sought the advice of a former military special ops guy (I think ex Navy SEAL) to help choreograph the animation for the Clone Troopers. In Ep II the Clones were all animated by animators who had no idea how soldiers should move on a battlefield, hence why you see them casually strolling across Geanosia shooting away at droids - but in Episode III you actually see them move more like actual soldiers with rifles raised to their eyeline (instead of being held at the hip), tighter more side-on postures (to make them harder targets to shoot at) etc. In Ep II when a Clone was shot the others just ignored it and kept fighting, whereas in Ep III you see a Clone being shot and another Clone immediately attends to him and hollers for a medic.

 

The Star Wars prequels aren't perfect, but you can see improvements in them as they progressed. And when you listen to interviews with Lucas you can hear that he really does care about Star Wars. You listen to Michael Bay during interviews - you can tell he cares about the movie succeeding and making a profitable film, but I don't sense that he actually cares about Transformers itself. We know he initially didn't - Bay has openly confessed this when he talked about hanging up on Spielberg and his reaction to what he considered to be a stupid proposal.

 

I will say he's pretty good with fans though - when I met him at the TF1 Sydney Premiere (June 16, 2007) he was really nice and stopped to sign autographs, unlike Megan Fox who didn't give any fans the time of day. Rachael Taylor was really nice too. But yeah, as a director I think he could do better with Transformers if he just gave a rat's arse about making GOOD cinematographic stories.

 

<--no autographs!

 

i aggree with you on george lucas aboot the new trilogy. he learned... and i hope he doesn't direct the next set.

 

but right now i'm ticked with GL because he's allowed lucas arts turn into a joke... [cough]star wars: the force unleashed 2[cough] i know he isn't in control of the company but HIS name is on the logo.

 

just remember megan fox has weird thumbs... and has had alot of plastic surgery. she may not like people seeing her up close.

 

I'd rather see the Transformers continue as CGI Animated films. Transformers Prime is a great example of what could be. I'd be happy if they took a break and waited at least 10 years before they tried a reboot. I don't hate the Transformers films, actually like them very much. Hell, I even like RoTF which I hated the first time I saw it has grown on me after multiple viewings over the last year and a half. I look forward to Dark of the Moon, and who knows where the live action series will go. Just cause it may be Bay's last Transformers movie, doesn't mean its the last Live action film in this series. Someone else could always continue on and do another trilogy using the same characters. Bay love him or hate him, reintroduced Transformers to the masses, in a way not seen since the mid 80s. I firmly believe that without the success of Bay's films, we wouldn't be seeing the awesome figures and lines which have come out over the last few years.

 

any director in hollywood coould have done the same thing he has. he hasn't reinvented the wheel or made bread better. spielberg gave him the opportunity which i wish he'd pass up. at first i was fired up at the situation but the more i saw bay's previous films and saw rotf and tf1 again i realized this guy just isn't in it for story. it's all $$$. hollywood just doesn't have that many good directors/writers anymore.

 

mind you, i majored in film/video/graphic design and was an artist. directing and editing were my favorite. i started working in film/video around 12 with my dad & brothers. sooo this dismay comes with some experience.

 

 

any director in hollywood coould have done the same thing he has. he hasn't reinvented the wheel or made bread better. spielberg gave him the opportunity which i wish he'd pass up. at first i was fired up at the situation but the more i saw bay's previous films and saw rotf and tf1 again i realized this guy just isn't in it for story. it's all $$$. hollywood just doesn't have that many good directors/writers anymore.

 

mind you, i majored in film/video/graphic design and was an artist. directing and editing were my favorite. i started working in film/video around 12 with my dad & brothers. sooo this dismay comes with some experience.

I graduated with a degree in film/video and have been in the production business for over 10 years...doesn't change my mind.

but right now i'm ticked with GL because he's allowed lucas arts turn into a joke... [cough]star wars: the force unleashed 2[cough] i know he isn't in control of the company but HIS name is on the logo.

Surely it can't be as bad as the Star Wars Holiday Special. I can't think of anything more disturbing than watching a juvenile Wookiee get his rocks off over Diahann Carroll. <extreme.shudder>

just remember megan fox has weird thumbs... and has had alot of plastic surgery. she may not like people seeing her up close.

Yeah, she's not very attractive IRL (mediocre at best). All the tatts everywhere are a turn off for me too.

 

mind you, i majored in film/video/graphic design and was an artist. directing and editing were my favorite. i started working in film/video around 12 with my dad & brothers. sooo this dismay comes with some experience.

I graduated with a degree in film/video and have been in the production business for over 10 years...doesn't change my mind.

I majored in education, so if DOTM turns out to be a lemon of a film he'd better report to me for...

;)

I'd rather see the Transformers continue as CGI Animated films. Transformers Prime is a great example of what could be. I'd be happy if they took a break and waited at least 10 years before they tried a reboot. I don't hate the Transformers films, actually like them very much. Hell, I even like RoTF which I hated the first time I saw it has grown on me after multiple viewings over the last year and a half. I look forward to Dark of the Moon, and who knows where the live action series will go. Just cause it may be Bay's last Transformers movie, doesn't mean its the last Live action film in this series. Someone else could always continue on and do another trilogy using the same characters. Bay love him or hate him, reintroduced Transformers to the masses, in a way not seen since the mid 80s. I firmly believe that without the success of Bay's films, we wouldn't be seeing the awesome figures and lines which have come out over the last few years.

I agree that the popularity of Transformers has boomed since Bay's films came out (Hasbro's sales figures doubled after the movie franchise came out), but would like to point out that Transformers was already really successful on its own before the movie. The first real revival of Transformers happened with Beast Wars -- something that many fans consider to be the "Transformers Renaissance." Generation 2 failed to revive the franchise and Transformers was nearly dead by 1995 - then after Beast Wars came out, Transformers shot up to be the 3rd best selling toy line in 1996-97 after Star Wars and Toy Story. Then we went from Beast Wars to Robots In Disguise which led to Binaltech/Alternators then the Unicron Trilogy yada yada yada. Hasbro decided to invest in a live action film because they saw how successful Transformers had become (I first heard news that Hasbro were seriously contemplating doing a live action movie in 2003).

 

And I think a lot of the awesome figures we saw in recent years we still would have seen even without the movie franchise. Universe/Generations/Reveal The Shield are essentially a continuation of Classics which came out in 2006, a year before the movie. Animated was actually something Hasbro had prepared before the movie came out as their 'back up' plan in case the movie franchise tanked (because before the movie came out there was no solid guarantee that it would succeed) - hence why Animated is so aesthetically and dynamically different from the movie franchise. Now that Hasbro's satisfied with the movie franchise's success, they're now starting to allow the movie to influence the next kid's line of TFs (Prime). Hasbro's clever enough not to put all their eggs in one basket with the movie franchise, so really - if it weren't for the movie, really the only toys we would have missed would have been the movie toys. We still would have gotten Universe, Generations, Reveal The Shield, Animated etc. The only upcoming franchise we wouldn't be getting would be Prime (as that's clearly movie influenced).

 

So while there's no denying that the movie franchise has seen a massively significant boom for Transformers, I wouldn't go so far as to say that it's the "be all and end all" for the franchise either.

I liked both films. I even liked TF2 better than TF1. The movies IMHO have no intellectual value at all but they are entertaining. As they are found to be entertaining to a large population accross the globe. Call me simple, whatever, I'm just happy the movies were made and that they did as well as they did, AND that they boosted our TF options.

 

They undeniably took Hasbro's profit margin through the roof not just once, or twice, but Hasbro is on their third major spike since mid 2006 (highest being Dec 10, 2010). There is a positive movie-profit correllation and there is no way we would have the same range of toys available without the movies. We would probably have the option of one primary show driven toyline and a limited Universe/Generations sub line.

I like the movies too, though I prefer the first one over the second. But I also recognise their flaws. As I said before, Michael Bay is very good at making popular popcorn flicks that will attract masses to the cinema and rake in heaps of dough at the box office. And the core strength of the live action films is that they have a general appeal - you don't have to be a fan of Transformers to enjoy them. That was the weakness of Transformers The Movie which was a dismal box office failure and received scathing reviews (cos reviewers aren't TF fans) who saw the movie as nothing more than an 80 minute toy advert (well, it fundamentally is :P). The Beast Wars Movie also makes no sense to anyone who hasn't seen Beast Wars and Beast Wars Second. But the great thing about the Bay movies is that anyone can walk in and watch the movies without being totally confused by what the hell's going on.

 

Having said that, as you said, the movies are too simple (ROTF moreso than TF1). Just because you're making a movie to appeal to Joe/Jane Average, doesn't mean you have to compromise on giving it a good story with proper character development. The thing with the live action films is that when I first watched them in the cinemas, I really enjoyed them. Then when I watch it a second time then get the DVDs and watch it again and again, with each re-watch I'm enjoying it less (especially Revenge of the Fallen). A good movie is one where you enjoy watching it again and again (like say the original Star Wars Trilogy -- who's only ever watched that once?)

 

They undeniably took Hasbro's profit margin through the roof not just once' date=' or twice, but Hasbro is on their third major spike since mid 2006 (highest being Dec 10, 2010). Without these movies the movie-profit correllation would not exist and there is no way we would have the same range of toys available minus the movie toys that we have today. We would probably have the option of one primary show driven toyline and a limited Universe/Generations sub line.[/quote']

I think without the live action films, Transformers certainly wouldn't be as mainstream as it is now (which is good and bad in different ways). We probably wouldn't have the range of Transformers merchandise that we have now. Before the movies came out, it was a lot harder to find things like TF apparel, backpacks, notebooks, stationery, bedsheets, cushions etc. Before the movie came out I had a small handful of TF shirts, since then I now have a full wardrobe and I now wear Transformers clothes 24/7 (literally). But apart from all the additional merchandise and movie toys, not much else would significantly have changed (again, because this was carefully orchestrated by Hasbro who didn't want to put all their eggs in one basket).

 

Animated would have still gone ahead. In fact, we would have gotten MORE Animated toys if not for the movies. Animated Scrapper and Mixmaster were never made into toys because when Hasbro saw Paramount was including the Constructicons on ROTF, they didn't want to have the Animated and ROTF Constructicons competing against each other on shelves. Universe/Generations/Reveal The Shield would have still gone ahead, because we had Classics before the movie came out. And those lines are predominantly based on G1, not the movie. The only post-movie franchise that would have been significantly effected would have been Transformers Prime -- so if we never had the movies, instead of having a movie-inspired franchise like Prime, we would simply have a different TF franchise (like maybe Hasbro might have extended Animated, or looked at redoing Transformers Hero - or maybe just made something totally different - it's not as if Hasbro weren't pumping out new lines leading up to 2007).

 

 

any director in hollywood coould have done the same thing he has. he hasn't reinvented the wheel or made bread better. spielberg gave him the opportunity which i wish he'd pass up. at first i was fired up at the situation but the more i saw bay's previous films and saw rotf and tf1 again i realized this guy just isn't in it for story. it's all $$$. hollywood just doesn't have that many good directors/writers anymore.

 

mind you, i majored in film/video/graphic design and was an artist. directing and editing were my favorite. i started working in film/video around 12 with my dad & brothers. sooo this dismay comes with some experience.

I graduated with a degree in film/video and have been in the production business for over 10 years...doesn't change my mind.

 

i'm glad to hear that. it's nice to see someone achieve a degree in what is considered a very hard industry to get into.

 

my little brother was able to achieve it too. he does mainly computer based graphics and small video demo's in-house at a company. a few years ago he asked if i would join him in starting a production/media company with a few friends.

 

to bad we can't make a fan edit here and release it. my editing skills are limited to the old analog style. and it has been years since i've done it. but i still keep my eye open when i see a bad or not needed edit in a film or how a seen was directed. when i was in college non-linear editing was new. yes... i'm old.

The bottom line is that Has/Tak wouldn't have been able to produce this many molds without the demand they garnered from the popularity of the movies.

Yeah, she's not very attractive IRL (mediocre at best). All the tatts everywhere are a turn off for me too.

 

This!

 

Another example of Michael Bay's idiocy. Hiring the human trainwreck to be the "pretty girl" in the movies. Every scene with her in ROTF made me gag

The bottom line is that Has/Tak wouldn't have been able to produce this many molds without the demand they garnered from the popularity of the movies.

That's not necessarily a bad thing. The movie has yielded a lot of RUBBISH toys like Fast Action Battlers, Robot Replicas, Stealth Force, RPMs, Power Bots, Cyber Slammers, Battle Chargers, Ultimate Bumblebee, Combiner Class Devastator etc etc. (-_-)