I was just talking about this with my roommate yesterday. I told him that a local comic shop has the Tark 4pack re-issue Megs, OP, SS, & Soundwave.

my roommate replied "oh you mean fakes". & I looked at him like he was from another planet. how can any TF re-issue KO or what ever REALY be called fakes? way back in 1982 when Hasbro's marketing people travled over to the east they found these "niffty" lil robots in a whole host of mom & pop Aisian shops as well as major chains.

IMO, its like accuseing Italy of sell KO pizza! they invented it. also for all you bleeding harts out there feel bad for a wealthy co. like Hasbor being ripped off, well consider this.

Has Hasbro ever paid one damn dime to co. like Lambogini, Porsha, toyta, Lotus, U.S. armed forces & any other corperation that these TFs are modeled after? so like some one already said, every body steals from every body. its the nature of the game.

oh yeah & one more note on KOs. if Hasbro REALY hates the damn things so flippin much then why on earth do they make it so freakin hard to find & buy the stuff???

don't blame it all on the scalpers! Hasbro likes to play its lil tricks to get the collectors all worked up & then just tease them.

so I don't feel bad for them. by the way, I'm on the bus now headed to the mall. I have every intention of buying that Tark Megs.

 

Uhmmm, folks. I'm not trying to offend anyone, but you guys are arguing mulitple things, but not really talking about the same thing. Again I'm not trying to insult anyone.

 

What KO's infringe on are two things "Patents" and "Trademarks".

 

This link to Wikipedia on Patent law is the closest on what the law says:Wikipedia - Patents

This link to Wikipedia on Trademark law is the closest:Wikipedia - Trademarks

 

But basically this is what you have. When someone creates something they have roughly 20 years to decide how they want to market it. After that all they can do is get royalties on it. If they don't defend the patent, and it starts to be sold by someone else, it falls into public doman. Same with Trademarks. But the problem starts after something is both over 20 years old and out of the country. If the country in question doesn't have any real reason to help go after offenders, say in the case of a toy company going after KO's, it doesn't happen. Its not like they can ask the Marines to help them enforce the Patent. Another thing the KO's do is "mis-print" a lot of the info on the boxes or the names of the characters. Its much easier to infringe on Patents, because if you can make it long enough, you can get exceptions declared. But Trademarks, like names or instructions, are defended more furiously.

 

And uhmm yes, Hasbro is licensing any and all of the cars they use. Most of those Car companys are "Large enough" and the cars they are making are "new and popular enough" if they didn't make major toy manufactures license them they would lose the right to create and collect on any toys created in their products image. And if you believe any business, with a good lawyer, is going to pass up basically free money that they don't have to do anything other than sit back and collect, you kidding yourself. So you better believe they have lawyers on retainer to go after folks who infringe.

 

Everyone should know the HotRod/Hot Rodimus name trademark problem. Or the problem with VW not licensing any new bugs for them to use for bumblebee. And anyone with a blackberry should have heard of the patent problems that the government had to step in on to prevent RIM from losing the right keep making Blackberries from the tech they stole.

 

___________________________

 

Having said that, I for one am a fan of KO's of items that the vendor no longer has intresting in making any more. Or have abandoned. Some items that I couldn't get before they were ended production I could get as a KO. I try to purchase the vendor's first, but if the vendor has no intrest in providing enough, KO's sometimes are my, and others, only option.

 

Not justfying my purchases, just explaining that not everything is black and white.

fwiw, the distributors are the ones that are punished and prosecuted, but lets be honest here. can you say you know anybody that hasn't said to a friend or relative, "hey check out this new song, oh you want a copy, sure let me give it to ya"?

 

 

Try tracking THAT, man!

NOW you get it.

 

Anyway, here's my take on all of this:

 

After much thought, I decided that this situation with KO's is similar enough to to music piracy kick that my opinion on music piracy also applies to the KO's.

 

Here's my opinion: It is not stealing to download music off the internet. The money in your pocket is still yours, it's not the record company/artist's. Stealing implies that you've taken something from someone. The very nature of downloading is that the data is copied, ergo, something has been created, not taken. However, I do think that uploading music to be downloaded is stealing, as you're taking away part of their market with their own exact product. Competition is not stealing, as it is another product, even though they may be similar.

 

My same thoughts apply to KO's. Your money is still yours, not HasTakTomy's. You can buy whatever you wish and if you see a KO on the shelves you can buy it, that's why it was put out there. The same thing applies to stores buying the KO's, it only becomes stealing for them after they put it up for buying. The store and the manufacturer have stolen part of HasTakTomy's market with HasTakTomy's own product.

 

That's my stance.

yuyuyami that was very profound! think about it people. stealing & its laws govering it were made hundereds of years ago. to them what were doing is like magic.

sorta like snap ur fingers & just zap up the merch you see for sale in there shops. would they call the law & charge you w/stealing? NO! because there merch is still in there stores. of corse u'd get burned at the steak for being a witch, but not a theif!

so yeah yuyuyami I see your point.

NOW you get it.

 

Anyway, here's my take on all of this:

 

After much thought, I decided that this situation with KO's is similar enough to to music piracy kick that my opinion on music piracy also applies to the KO's.

 

Here's my opinion: It is not stealing to download music off the internet. The money in your pocket is still yours, it's not the record company/artist's. Stealing implies that you've taken something from someone. The very nature of downloading is that the data is copied, ergo, something has been created, not taken. However, I do think that uploading music to be downloaded is stealing, as you're taking away part of their market with their own exact product. Competition is not stealing, as it is another product, even though they may be similar.

 

My same thoughts apply to KO's. Your money is still yours, not HasTakTomy's. You can buy whatever you wish and if you see a KO on the shelves you can buy it, that's why it was put out there. The same thing applies to stores buying the KO's, it only becomes stealing for them after they put it up for buying. The store and the manufacturer have stolen part of HasTakTomy's market with HasTakTomy's own product.

 

That's my stance.

yuyuyami that was very profound! think about it people. stealing & its laws govering it were made hundereds of years ago. to them what were doing is like magic.

sorta like snap ur fingers & just zap up the merch you see for sale in there shops. would they call the law & charge you w/stealing? NO! because there merch is still in there stores. of corse u'd get burned at the steak for being a witch, but not a theif!

so yeah yuyuyami I see your point.

 

True, but I was thinking more from an ethics standpoint than a legal one when I defined stealing. Just because some thing's legal doesn't mean it's right. And just because some thing's not WRONG to do doesn't mean it's legal.

 

fwiw, the distributors are the ones that are punished and prosecuted, but lets be honest here. can you say you know anybody that hasn't said to a friend or relative, "hey check out this new song, oh you want a copy, sure let me give it to ya"?

 

If you're caught downloading you'll also get punished. Example: My brother was caught downloading a movie a couple years back. Charges weren't pressed due to my brother not hassling them over it. He admitted to it, payed the store price for the movie to them and promptly deleted it.

I do not see it as a crime or an ethically questionable activity to buy things from stores including KO's. I think the same logic applies to downloading music. It's the distributor that's stealing, not the recipient. The only common difference between the two is that with KO's you fork over 2 or 3 bucks to the distributor (I say common because I've seen piracy websites that require you to pay for the things they've pirated. It's just not common to see that in my experience).

Yeah, I see what you're saying.

 

It's illegal to sell stolen goods but not illegal to purchase them, which is true in most cases. For example, it is not illegal to purchase pirated CDs and DVDs but it is illegal to sell/distribute them. If a person is count selling/distributing pirated discs, then that person is prosecuted and not their customers. Back in the 80s my father bought an Alfa Romeo through a 2nd hand private sale, but it turned out that the car was stolen. The person who stole the car was prosecuted and the police had to seize the vehicle and my father got his money returned but was never charged because he hadn't done anything illegal.

 

So legally speaking it's not against the law and the same could be argued ethically too. But is it morally right to purchase a stolen or counterfeit item if you consciously know that it is stolen/counterfeit? You could argue that it is morally dubious because by purchasing items known to be stolen or counterfeit you are supporting their legally and ethically questionable practice.

 

For example, if you buy all your electrical goods off someone who you consciously knew stole them from other people, you are encouraging them to continue stealing so that they can continue making an income by selling you stolen goods.

 

I'm not entirely clear on the legality of it, but I think in some instances (depending on the nature of it) consumers can be prosecuted for receiving items that they have known was stolen.

 

If someone purchases a KO without knowing at the time that it was a KO then the entire blame is on the seller. But if the person knew that it was a KO and bought it anyway, then their actions could be argued as being morally dubious because they have consciously participated in the exchange of a counterfeit item.

 

When I was a kid some other kid at school sold me a Cyclonus figure - excellent condition and complete, but with no box... for $2. I bought it thinking nothing of it. Now years later I reckon that that kid most likely shoplifted that toy or stole it from another kid and sold it to me. I don't consider myself as having done anything wrong because at the time I honestly didn't know or even suspect that it might have been stolen. Was I naive? (I was 11) Sure. Did I consciously receive a known stolen product? No.

Yeah, I already mentioned that I could see a possible prosecution being there for supporting a place that distributes stolen/counterfeit items (by supporting I mean buying ANYTHING from them. Not just KO's and the like. You're supporting them just the same. Damn slippery slopes). As for ethics, I wasn't the one who stole it. Granted, should I ever find the original owner of a stolen item, I'll give it back. However, KO's and downloaded music have something special about them: They're copies, not originals. It'd be funny as hell if I took the three KO's I own and mailed them to Hasbro, saying "These were stolen from you!"

 

There's little to argue on the "I knew this was stolen when I bought it, I am doing something wrong" front. You either believe that way or you don't. There's little to support either direction as far as I'm concerned.

 

My view point: I'll buy a stolen item even knowing it's stolen. I'm doing nothing wrong. IF I find the original owner, I'll give it back. But quite honestly, who's more likely to return the damn thing? The thief or me? As far as supporting the thief into stealing more things: I don't have a problem with him stealing as long as it's not from me: it's his life, not mine (hehe. Should I ever go to work for HasTakTomy and design a TF, I might be singing a different tune. Twee~~).

That's because KOs is intellectual theft, and not physical theft. But at the end of the day, stealing is stealing, whether it's physical or intellectual.

 

There's a reason why we have copyright laws. ;)

My view point: I'll buy a stolen item even knowing it's stolen. I'm doing nothing wrong. IF I find the original owner

As far as supporting the thief into stealing more things: I don't have a problem with him stealing as long as it's not from me:

Those are terrible views. You support thievery? Karma is a Starscream,you'll get what's comin to you @sshole.

If I ever had a known stolen item in my collection,it would'nt stay there very long. I know every time I'd look at it,I'd think 'STOLEN STOLEN STOLEN'.

Enjoy all your stolen crap turdface!

My view point: I'll buy a stolen item even knowing it's stolen. I'm doing nothing wrong. IF I find the original owner

As far as supporting the thief into stealing more things: I don't have a problem with him stealing as long as it's not from me:

Those are terrible views. You support thievery? Karma is a Starscream,you'll get what's comin to you @sshole.

If I ever had a known stolen item in my collection,it would'nt stay there very long. I know every time I'd look at it,I'd think 'STOLEN STOLEN STOLEN'.

Enjoy all your stolen crap turdface!

 

Powerglide karma, possession of known stolen goods is against the law.

 

also, don't be so hostile toward the guy, it's not like he's talking about eating babies or anything.

 

If you're caught downloading you'll also get punished. Example: My brother was caught downloading a movie a couple years back. Charges weren't pressed due to my brother not hassling them over it. He admitted to it, payed the store price for the movie to them and promptly deleted it.

 

oh man thats rich! your bro got seriously Powerglideed over. how'd he get "caught"? sorry, i'm not trying to be a douche or anything but man... anyway, let me rephrase that then, when your downloading anything thats seen retail release, you can't get in trouble. whose to say that you didn't buy it and have it stolen?

That's because KOs is intellectual theft, and not physical theft. But at the end of the day, stealing is stealing, whether it's physical or intellectual.

 

There's a reason why we have copyright laws. ;)

 

Again, as I said before, it's the distributor/manufacturer who's stealing, not the customer.

 

My view point: I'll buy a stolen item even knowing it's stolen. I'm doing nothing wrong. IF I find the original owner

As far as supporting the thief into stealing more things: I don't have a problem with him stealing as long as it's not from me:

Those are terrible views. You support thievery? Karma is a Starscream,you'll get what's comin to you @sshole.

If I ever had a known stolen item in my collection,it would'nt stay there very long. I know every time I'd look at it,I'd think 'STOLEN STOLEN STOLEN'.

Enjoy all your stolen crap turdface!

 

Wow, so your entire view on why we shouldn't do bad things is because you think you'll get punished later on? Next time I need someone to help me, you'll be the last person I think of.

 

It's not so much that I support thievery but more that I want cheap things. If I should have a thief source for items, kewl. I think I already do, KO's at BigLots.

 

I think I will enjoy my stolen crap and I'll enjoy my Turdface, too.

 

My view point: I'll buy a stolen item even knowing it's stolen. I'm doing nothing wrong. IF I find the original owner

As far as supporting the thief into stealing more things: I don't have a problem with him stealing as long as it's not from me:

Those are terrible views. You support thievery? Karma is a Starscream,you'll get what's comin to you @sshole.

If I ever had a known stolen item in my collection,it would'nt stay there very long. I know every time I'd look at it,I'd think 'STOLEN STOLEN STOLEN'.

Enjoy all your stolen crap turdface!

 

Powerglide karma, possession of known stolen goods is against the law.

 

also, don't be so hostile toward the guy, it's not like he's talking about eating babies or anything.

 

I'm not so much worried about the legal implications of owning a KO/downloaded song as I am the moral implications. What's legal isn't necessarily right and what's not wrong isn't necessarily legal.

 

If you're caught downloading you'll also get punished. Example: My brother was caught downloading a movie a couple years back. Charges weren't pressed due to my brother not hassling them over it. He admitted to it, payed the store price for the movie to them and promptly deleted it.

 

oh man thats rich! your bro got seriously Powerglideed over. how'd he get "caught"? sorry, i'm not trying to be a douche or anything but man... anyway, let me rephrase that then, when your downloading anything thats seen retail release, you can't get in trouble. whose to say that you didn't buy it and have it stolen?

 

My brother was an idiot and used Limewire. Need I say more?

 

And I think the circumstances are a BIT different if you pay someone to steal something for you.

 

My thoughts: It's similar to paying a hit man kill someone, you knwowingly put forth the motions that lead to that person's death. Same thing here. If you just buy stolen goods, you didn't knowingly put forth the motions to have those items stolen, the buying's the result, not the cause.

 

Now, I do recognize that giving the thief continual business will make him all the more likely to continue stealing, but as I said before: What he does with his life is his business, not mine. It's not like I payed him to kill anyone.

 

=P