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You still haven't answered my question. What is so wrong or stupid about mass conversion? And don't say because it is scientifically or physically impossible. Much of what we see in science fiction and fantasy is too.

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Move Soundwave to the next movie and give him mass conversion where they can fit it in better.

Now - Give us a good storytelling reason why in a Sequel they will include a huge 30 ft tall, bulky robot, who does exactly as Frenzy does and mass-shifts into a small portable stereo system, when Frenzy got the job done extremely well in the first movie? Please, seriously give us a good answer.

 

Frenzy does all the spying/espionage and still relates his findings to other Decepticons. Why would the movie producers/director/writers want to just fubar that and put a mass-shifting and high-ranking Decepticon in the same situations that a small, sneaky mobile 4 ft robot had previously done in the first movie effectively? WHY?

 

Give all of us a GOOD story-telling reason and examples please. Don't just say because that's Soundwave's function or thats' what Soundwave does. Give us a GOOD, SOLID STORYTELLING REASON. Please.

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You still haven't answered my question. What is so wrong or stupid about mass conversion? And don't say because it is scientifically or physically impossible. Much of what we see in science fiction and fantasy is too.

Because I think it's downright f*cking stupid. Don't ask me again.

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Don't care.

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You still haven't answered my question. What is so wrong or stupid about mass conversion? And don't say because it is scientifically or physically impossible. Much of what we see in science fiction and fantasy is too.

 

If only I could type what I just thought as I read the last page of this thread without getting a warn. :redface

 

I know this isn't my question to answer but it'll be fun to just the same.

 

The question here isn't so much what's wrong with the concept of mass shifting or wether it's scientifically possible or not but how a mainstream audience would percieve it. Nobody at this point really cares wether the concept of mass conversion is either sound or flawed the point is it's not in the movie. Why isn't it in the movie. "Well aside from what nearly everybody else here has argued it could be because it's a foriegn concept & would only confuse an audience rather than entertain. In regards to the script alone everybody involved with it's prpgression has basically one shot to put Transformers out there in a believable sense. The last thing they're going to want to do is confuse the hell out of everyone as to why mass conversion works on a molecular scale. Even if they were to extrapolate on the sciences involved most people (not the fans) would walk out seeing it as nothing more than a cheat to present everything as it once was. If not they'd be asking a lot of the same questions that are showing up all over this thread. Most argued point being why the hell would a however tall robot command an alt mode as insignificant as a tape deck. Who the hell uses a tapedeck now adays anyway & why would that be the first thing Soundwave would chose? The main argument seems to be because it serves his function of espinoge. Jebus make him an orbiting spy satelite then. Even that's more intersting than a tape cassette player in the year 2007. This is 2007 you realize?

 

Cybertron Soundwave. The only reason CS didn't have any link to any previous incarnation despite being recognizable was soley the fault of the scripters in Japan. If the character had been scripted as Megatron's loyal lackey instead of some useless stand alone character from planet X all would have been well. He didn't turn into a tape deck but even you yourself admited he was recognizable as Soundwave though the character was anything but. That argued who's to say Cybertron Soundwave wouldn't have been able to preform his functions alongside Megatron as a Stealth bomber? The design/concept was perfect the character however was unfortunately wasted. As a movie design with the essence of the character intact the sequel would rock.

 

Hate to bring it up but a lot of this brings me back to the movie Starscream & why he looks the way he does thread. Starscream I will admit looks nothing like his G1 incarnation but it's been stated numerous times that the look of the character will not dictate the personality or asigned alt mode. It's been agued by some he looks like an ape, & stupid as well oh & fat, can't forget fat. I don't really care who sides with who on that one because to me personally I don't care. As long as Apescreams personality is intact, & he's a backstabbing creep I won't complain. Same goes for whatever Soundwave is eventually rendered as. As long as he's loyal to Megatron & has Welker's voice attached, (sorry couldn't resist) he's as much Soundwave as he needs to be. A dated 80s alt mode will not make or break who Soundwave is. Only the witers/director can screw that up.

 

Minicons in Armada. Oy, I will amit I haven't watched these in a while but from what I remember said minicons had miniture alt modes. I don't remember one instance where there were transformed large enough for a regular person to ride in. Unless you mean the street something team with the skateboard, moped, & mountain bike. Of course those all all small to begin with & require little mass to be a belivably small robot. Jolt I never remember being very big. If he was it was clearly an animation error. I remember several of the minicons being rode on but never driven. Name some eps for me & I'll check back. The only time I remember any minicon mass conversion/shifting was in Cybertron with the recon team. Road scale on moment & small enough to fit all three in a closet the next. I Powerglideing hated that.

 

& that's exactly the kind of response this movie is trying to avoid from it's audienc by neglecting the whole mass convesion/shifting retcon altogether.

 

You still haven't answered my question. What is so wrong or stupid about mass conversion? And don't say because it is scientifically or physically impossible. Much of what we see in science fiction and fantasy is too.

Because I think it's downright f*cking stupid. Don't ask me again.

 

:rofl

 

Nough said.

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Tramp - don't ignore my question, even if it's hard for you to answer ...

 

Give us all here a good storytelling reason why in a Sequel they will include a huge 30 ft tall, bulky robot, who does exactly as Frenzy does and mass-shifts into a small portable stereo system, when Frenzy got the job done extremely well in the first movie? Please, seriously give us a good answer.

 

Frenzy does all the spying/espionage and still relates his findings to other Decepticons. Why would the movie producers/director/writers want to just fubar that and put a mass-shifting and high-ranking Decepticon in the same situations that a small, sneaky mobile 4 ft robot had previously done in the first movie effectively? WHY?

 

Give all of us a GOOD story-telling reason and examples please. Don't just say because that's Soundwave's function or thats' what Soundwave does. Give us a GOOD, SOLID STORYTELLING REASON. Please.

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You still haven't answered my question. What is so wrong or stupid about mass conversion? And don't say because it is scientifically or physically impossible. Much of what we see in science fiction and fantasy is too.

Because I think it's downright f*cking stupid. Don't ask me again.

That isn't a reason.

In fact, I will explain this. I think it's stupid that's why I think it's wrong. Can't you get that into your head? I don't care what you think you know about making a successful sci-fi flick or what you think you know about science. I don't want to watch that nonsense in the cinema. That is MORE than enough reason for me to give my opinion on this subject. Can you understand that? :roll

Edited by siburke939
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Guys, Its clear that we shouldn't argue with tramp. He's clearly from cybertron and went to highschool with megatron, and has written every tF show and comic since 84. How else could he know what soundwave was built for? How teletran one works? What the conficting story lines from the last 20 years Meant to say? Surely we mere mortals could not grasp his insight into the necessary functions of all Transformers or how with out mass shifting G1 would have been crap.

 

Or maybe he should just write some fan fiction.

 

Just the facts Tramp, Just the facts.

 

Now answer DMs question and leave the fanfic out of it.

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Move Soundwave to the next movie and give him mass conversion where they can fit it in better.

Now - Give us a good storytelling reason why in a Sequel they will include a huge 30 ft tall, bulky robot, who does exactly as Frenzy does and mass-shifts into a small portable stereo system, when Frenzy got the job done extremely well in the first movie? Please, seriously give us a good answer.

 

Frenzy does all the spying/espionage and still relates his findings to other Decepticons. Why would the movie producers/director/writers want to just fubar that and put a mass-shifting and high-ranking Decepticon in the same situations that a small, sneaky mobile 4 ft robot had previously done in the first movie effectively? WHY?

 

Give all of us a GOOD story-telling reason and examples please. Don't just say because that's Soundwave's function or thats' what Soundwave does. Give us a GOOD, SOLID STORYTELLING REASON. Please.

 

I have given you several good reasons, from a story telling perspective. Those reasons are the same in-story reasons why Soundwave did so in the old cartoon. From an in-story perspective, a communications device that is designed to transmit, receive, record and analize both friendly and enemy communications is the best alternate mode for someone whose primary function is communiucations. It would, in essence enhance his capbabilites by devoting all of his internal systems to that one function. A small, innoucuous alt mode which is ubiquitous and would not draw any attention to itself no matter where it was, on top of that is even better and makes for a perfect disguise. And, since the size shift doesn't lessen the actual power of his abilies, just their size, he has all of the power and resources of a 30' tall machine comressed into a small form. If he only had the processing power of a machine the normal size of a stereo, he wouldn't be as effective. Therfore if you could have an alt mode which allowed you to devote all of your internal resources to your primary function, that could shrink down while still maintaining the level of processing and transmitting power as if you were huge, but in a smaller, more discrete package, wouldn't you do so? Building a system in that small size from the beginning wouldn't have the power.

 

Why would someone whose sole function is communications be a van or a helocopter? It makes no sense. How would Megatron gain access to thosue communications? Why would a bot who transforms into a van be called Soundwave? The very name denotes a stereo sound system or electronic media device; something the purpose of which is to produce soundwaves. The name, function, and form all tie together perfectly.

 

At the same time, a small robot mode would make for a very vulnerable and physically weak target once the plasma started flying. It is too weak. It also doesn't garner much respect for someone who is supposed to be the leader's right-hand man. From my understanding, Frenzy doesn't get into much in the way of combat against the Autobots, if any. If he did, he would be toast because his robot mode is too small and weak. This very disadvantage to a small robot mode is brought up in the character bio of the Decepticon Cassette Overkill. There is a glitch in his mass conversion system which sometimes causes him to become stuck in his cassette size even when in robot mode, and this leaves him extremely vulnerable to damage. That is the reason for him having mass conversion. It grants hima mode which allows him to devote all of his internal sytems to his primary function, in a small inconspicuous mode while allowing him to be a powerful combatant and effective right-hand bot to Megatron. It also provides a logical reason for him to be able to carry his minions within him.

 

You still haven't answered my question. What is so wrong or stupid about mass conversion? And don't say because it is scientifically or physically impossible. Much of what we see in science fiction and fantasy is too.

Because I think it's downright f*cking stupid. Don't ask me again.

That isn't a reason.

In fact, I will explain this. I think it's stupid that's why I think it's wrong. Can't you get that into your head? I don't care what you think you know about making a successful sci-fi flick or what you think you know about science. I don't want to watch that nonsense in the cinema. That is MORE than enough reason for me to give my opinion on this subject. Can you understand that? :roll

Thinking it is stupid is not a reason. Why do you think it is stupid? What makes you think it is nonsense, especially since it has been successfully used in cinema and novels, and comics for decades?

 

It is one thing to say something is stupid. But if there is no solid reason for that belief, that view is weak.

 

Guys, Its clear that we shouldn't argue with tramp. He's clearly from cybertron and went to highschool with megatron, and has written every tF show and comic since 84. How else could he know what soundwave was built for? How teletran one works? What the conficting story lines from the last 20 years Meant to say? Surely we mere mortals could not grasp his insight into the necessary functions of all Transformers or how with out mass shifting G1 would have been crap.

 

Or maybe he should just write some fan fiction.

 

Just the facts Tramp, Just the facts.

 

Now answer DMs question and leave the fanfic out of it.

That is what I have been giving.

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