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My biggest question concerning mass-shifting, is that if Soundwave could have a small bot or remote drone like Frenzy who could disengage from Soundwave and turn into the tape deck player/radio/whatever and perform all those functions whilst his main body has a mode like a jeep or helicopter that would grant him mobility and speed, why on Earth or Cybertron would he have wasted mass and energy on mass shifting tech for a mode that lacks the benefits of the main alt mode when he could do the former?

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Hell, Why don't they all use mass shifting tech to be omega supreme sized and battle of the titans it out?

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Exactly, P-O.

 

Size-shifting is one thing - those Cybertron Minicons might size-shift, the wayAutobot A did in my example on the last page, explaining why human-sized bots can get large enough to drive (or fly) around in. They become very light cars with panels that slide and shift.

 

Mass-shifting is uber.

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Tramp, dude, give it up. Your whole argument breaks down to one thing: G1 purism.

 

This movie is NOT the G1 cartoon.

 

It is NOT War Within.

 

It is NOT the Marvel comics.

 

It is NOT Armada/Energon/Cybertron.

 

It is NOT Beast Wars.

 

It's something new, based on the success of the brand, that borrows from what came before, and yet will stand alone and totally kick ass.

 

The original Takara toy Soundwave was based on didn't mass-shift; his robot mode was the exact same size as the tape deck he turned into. Hasbro, wanting to make the character more impressive as (GASP!) a marketing ploy, made Soundwave mass-shift on the show (which was just a commercial for the toys). That's the only reason for G1 mass-shifting--because bratty American kids wouldn't take to the idea of a foot-high robot and his three-inch minions as vital characters in a show about giant robots. It's also why Megatron mass-shifts, because a six-inch-high robot commands little respect among giants.

 

I sometimes wonder what things would be like if Hasbro had made some other Diaclone molds into Megatron and Soundwave. We wouldn't even be having this argument.

 

Get your mind off G1. Cut the purist crap. If you want a G1 movie, go to film school, make a bunch of lousy romantic comedies and horror flicks that will get you the production capital you need, buy the rights and spend a couple hundred mil only to have the studio shoot it down at the last minute because every test audience thinks it looks like garbage.

 

Get with the program, man. This ain't your movie and it ain't your series. Watch it, buy a toy or two, and enjoy it for what it is while basking in some little amount of vindication for our fandom. Or don't, and just sit on your butt at home blogging about how much it sucks and wiping away your tears with Reissue Soundwave's instruction sheets while the rest of us go have fun. Seriously. This is ludicrous.

The essence of this movie is based upon G1, not Cybertron, not Beastwars[/b], not any of the other incarnations. That was Hasbro's intent and Don Murphy's as well if you read the various interviews and statements from the very beginning. The heart of the movie story is G1. Yes, they have taken some liberties to make the designs look more "realistic" but the heart of the characters and story still goes back to Generation One, so we can't simply ignore G1 because that is the source and where it all began. And, it isn't being G1 purist because there are a number of things from G1 I am glad were not incorporated, one being Megatron as a gun.

 

Tramp, I'm sorry dude but you're just making this slag up at this point. I wish I was on a first name basis with the Transformers too, but that don't make it so. You don't have some kind of preeminant athouity to dictate things like, this would be the only way for this or that to happen. Your arguments are getting to be dependant on the notion that YOU are the arbiter of all G1 FACT, and well, you're not. Even if you were it wouldn't affect the movie one bit.

 

Audiences will accept what they expect. Most movies have no talking in space anymore, people are in genral more knowegable. But if somthing visually rediculous happens it ends the suspension of disbelief and then they remember there are no giant robots and if there were they probably wouldn't be alive and then leave the theater thinking "boy that movie was dumb". Suspension of disbief has to be created and carefully maintained. It's more like glass slippers than a crutch. You put to much pressure on it and your movie stops working. Sci-fi fantasy movies have to be careful what they do because one wrong move can make there whole movie as cheesy as say and 80's cartoon.

 

Lest we forget why fans made up the Mass Shifting retcon in the first place. Becuase even in a cartoon when sw or megs transformed we knew it looked wrong and need an an explanation, so we made one up. Retconing so dumb things in fantasy/sci-fi make sense is a Fanboy notion. Most people won't make or Take an excuse for somthing that doesn't make sense to their eyes, they just leave it where it lays.

 

One more thing...

 

On Cybertron in the cartoon... he turned into unidentified kibble on the side of the road. Com Tower? Scanner? LAMP? We don't know! Get over it.

Actually, most Science fiction movies do stiull have space ships making noise in space. Only one or two don't. Size shifting isn't visually ridiculous. If iot wwre it wouldn't still be used in multiple media and would not have had such a long-standing tradition in science fiction and fantasy. The reason why they didn't put mass shifitng into the first movie is not because it is a ridiculous idea. It was because it would be too much all at once. Add ing fantastic elements little by little allows an audience to believe more of the fantasy elements into a story than they would if they were all introduced at once. By moviing the issue of mass conversion to another movie, they can introduce it believably because people have already accepted all of the other fatastic elements from the first movie. I had no problem in the old cartoon with Soundwave growing or shrinking, and I was no little kid at the time either. I was a teenager already. It fit the character. No explaination was needed and it wasn't the fans who came up with it either. It was Hasbro and ther writers, not the fans.

 

Let me put this to you. Let's take the toys completely out of the equation. For what story reason did Soundwave mass shift? What was the purpose for Soundwave mass converting? Why did he take on the form of a tape deck?

Those same reasons still apply to the movie and it still works. Remember, Transformers is a fantasy story. It is pure science fantasy. There is nothing wrong with fantastic elements like mass conversion as long as it is done in moderation. Having a whole bunch of robots capable of it would be too much. One or two characters with that ability? Not a problem. It won't destroy suspension of disbelief. It didn't with the cartoon or the original movie. It hasn't with the various other science fiction movies and novels that use it, nor the comic books. The trick is to make it look believable. It doesn't have to be explained. It just has to look plausible even though it is impossible.

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Exactly, P-O.

 

Size-shifting is one thing - those Cybertron Minicons might size-shift, the wayAutobot A did in my example on the last page, explaining why human-sized bots can get large enough to drive (or fly) around in. They become very light cars with panels that slide and shift.

 

Mass-shifting is uber.

No, those minicons mass shifted. They didn't use parts compression. Every part of their bodies grew proportionately. With Jolt, the rotors grew, the canopy grew, his arms/runners grew, and that growth was extreme growth, not a minor size change which is what Parts compression is for. Jolt went from about 7' tall to about 20' long witha 10' diameter rotor. He more than doubled in size. The same with the other two. That isn't parts compression like your example A. That is Mass conversion as described in TF: MtMtE #8

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If there was a poll I'd vote for no mass-shifting without question. Even typing the phrase mass-shifting makes me cringe with embarrassment. I've read all of this thread & rather than get involved in an utterly pointless debate I'll just sit here & laugh at anyone who thinks mass-shifting would be acceptable in this movie or any of the sequels.

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My biggest question concerning mass-shifting, is that if Soundwave could have a small bot or remote drone like Frenzy who could disengage from Soundwave and turn into the tape deck player/radio/whatever and perform all those functions whilst his main body has a mode like a jeep or helicopter that would grant him mobility and speed, why on Earth or Cybertron would he have wasted mass and energy on mass shifting tech for a mode that lacks the benefits of the main alt mode when he could do the former?

Because, transport isn't his function. Communications and intelligence analysis was. HE was the communication hub for Megatron. He was built purely for communications reception, transmission and recording in mind. That ws his sole purpose. A jeep is not suited to that, nor is a helocopter, which is why Blackout was not Soundwave (which, according to Don Murphy, was just a rumor. Blackout was never intended to be Soundwave). Soundwave was always intended to be a portable stereo system. The only reason why they went with Frenzy in the first movie instead of calling him Soundwave is because his robot mode size and his purpose did not mesh with Soundwave. The characterization was wrong. Frenzy was a bit part, and Soundwave is a major player. Right alt mode, wrong robot mode and character. Move Soundwave to the next movie and give him mass conversion where they can fit it in better.

 

If there was a poll I'd vote for no mass-shifting without question. Even typing the phrase mass-shifting makes me cringe with embarrassment. I've read all of this thread & rather than get involved in an utterly pointless debate I'll just sit here & laugh at anyone who thinks mass-shifting would be acceptable in this movie or any of the sequels.

Let me ask you this Siburke. What is so wrong with mass conversion? If you are saying because it is scientifically impossible, So what? So are giant transforming robots. There is nothing inherently wrong, nor stupid about mass conversion. If there were, it wouldn be such a staple of science fiction and fantasy for so long.

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Giant transforming robots are scientifically impossible? :rofl

 

That comment just proved to me why I shouldn't get involved in this debate. Utter nonsense.

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Giant transforming robots are scientifically impossible? :rofl

 

That comment just proved to me why I shouldn't get involved in this debate. Utter nonsense.

Actually, they are. At their size and mass, in robot mode, their feet do not provide enough surface area to support them without them collapsing from their own mass or busting through the ground. They are too big to be humanoid.

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:rofl

 

Yeah, sure Prof.

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