I guess some of us are very picky (including myself). For example, I was not impressed with Armada, Energon, or Cybertron Jetfire toys. To me they suck or just don't represent Jetfire for me correctly. Now with the Classics Jetfire I am all happy with it.

 

kindof like Pete, nostalgia plays a big part of what I would buy. I did however buy a few new characters of Cybertron like Vector Prime. Becuse to me he just looks cool.

Arguing that DW-WWI is somehow G1 but DW-G1 isnt.

 

Is rediculous.

 

(I guess i am like the only fan that actually enjoyed the DW series and feel like IDW is mostly garbage)

 

I guess some of us are very picky (including myself). For example, I was not impressed with Armada, Energon, or Cybertron Jetfire toys. To me they suck or just don't represent Jetfire for me correctly. Now with the Classics Jetfire I am all happy with it.

 

kindof like Pete, nostalgia plays a big part of what I would buy. I did however buy a few new characters of Cybertron like Vector Prime. Becuse to me he just looks cool.

 

I agree with this completely.

But i am not going to let the fact that somecharacter is or is NOT a homage to something from my childhood - be the most important factor in whether or not i am allowed to liek a new design.

 

yeah i wish the A/E/C stuff was actually watchable by someone who wasnt born with a skull full of water, but even if its not - i can still enjoy interesting designs. even if they dont directly releate to G1. or homage it. or something.

 

BTW - Total :luvers to pete. i dont mean to attack his hobby and i hope this disucssion isnt taken that way.

I guess some of us are very picky (including myself). For example, I was not impressed with Armada, Energon, or Cybertron Jetfire toys. To me they suck or just don't represent Jetfire for me correctly. Now with the Classics Jetfire I am all happy with it.

 

kindof like Pete, nostalgia plays a big part of what I would buy. I did however buy a few new characters of Cybertron like Vector Prime. Becuse to me he just looks cool.

Well to me Deadpool...

I buy the figures I like (display well, are cool to fiddle with, are nice to look at). Some hold a bit of Nostalgic Influence over me, most don't. My thing is I spend my free time writting out new stories, Tech Specs, and ideas based around such new toys/characters, mixing them up as new continuities or whatever I want...if I want. I don't do that for every figure but I do do it.

 

Now TF Classics is different...I buy them cause that's what I've wanted from a TF toyline for a long time: Good, modern takes on G1 characters that look good, display well, and make me feel like I'm 6-8 years old again. TFC Megatron has done that in spades for me.

Okay, thanks Pete.

I don't agree with your BW/BM isn't Transformers thing. But I respect your opinions on the matter.

 

Thanks for giving me a clearer view into your thoughts/opinions.

That's just my instinctive reaction, more than an opinion -- if that makes sense. Anything that I experienced during my childhood made it under the safety of the nostalgia umbrella, but anything after that point just didn't. It can't. I've grown up, ya know. This is why (for example) I can see Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi all as part of "Star Wars", despite the radical differences between those films. They all came out when I was an impressionable kid. Beast Wars and Beast Machines came along too late for that. And I'm kind of glad they did, because I really do enjoy them now, apart from any nostalgia I might have had about them. It enables me to see them more clearly, I think.

 

Arguing that DW-WWI is somehow G1 but DW-G1 isnt.

 

Is rediculous.

I've never read the comics, nor do I really want to. Again, it's not an argument so much as something that can fit into the stuff I liked when I was younger. I remember seeing those pointy Cybertronian jets in MTMTE, and I think it's cool that they're making them IRL. (And I also always thought it was lame that they never gave the TFs different looking robot forms on Cybertron, so the differences there are welcome too.) It's all about toys with those guys. Plus, look at who they're making: Prime, Megatron, Starscream, Thundercracker, Skywarp, Jetfire, Grimlock -- all in their G1 colors -- that's just great IMO.

Pete: As someone who never stopped collecting/loving Transformers, it's hard for me to empathise with someone declaring a period where Transformers don't count for them as Transformers; I could understand if someone said that anything from 1984-1987 was their "favourite" period of Transformers and that was the core period that they would focus on collecting figures from and admitted that they had little interest/knowledge in Transformers outside of that period... but to say that anything outside that period disqualifies as being part of Transformers -- even to say that G1 ended in 1987 -- is just grossly inaccurate.

 

Fact: G1 ended in 1993.

 

Man... I could rant on about this for another 3000 words...

 

...but I won't. This time. ;)

 

Not to bust your balls or nothing, but that wasn't "Transport to Oblivion", that was "Divide & Conquer". And the Yellow Seeker in "Divide & COnquer" is not the first Yellow Seeker in MTMTE (aka Sunstorm). He's a totally different shade of yellow (lots brighter), has no white parts, and has blue stripes on his wings instead of the red ones that Sunstorm has. So he's a totally different Seeker.

I sit corrected about that episode name thing. As for the other yellow Sky Raider, that's why I said "arguably." ;)

Wow, I am so the opposite of a lot of you. As I'm sure everybody knows by now I got into Transformers way later on. As a kid I remember snippits of it but not not much else. Hell i didn't even own a Transformer until around 93 or whenever it was. The most nostagic I've ever actually been towards TFs was when the first series of rereleases unexpectedly showed up at TRU for some reason. The kid in me just had to have a G1 Optimus Prime and Ultra Magnus having never had them growing up. The first time I saw all of G1 was shortly later on dvd and though some stuff, was cool I remember some of this, I for the most part just didn't get it. Just to prove I'm not completely devoild of childhood nostalga I grew up loving cartoons and a lot of the Disney ones that ran from the the mid 80s through early 90s are still for some reason or other as much fun as they were then as they are now on dvd years later. Yeah I'm weird.

 

As for collecting and being part of the whole transfandom I see G1 through Beastwars through the Armadaverse as all the same. A lot changes but in the end it's still Transformers to me. I can accept the cartoons/comics whatnot for what they are and at times even buy based off that but before that can happen if the toy no matter who it represents is crap I won't touch it. My buying "mantra" has always been quality over nostalga. Guess that's just the kind of collector I am.

 

As for Sunstorm, the one shot yellow seeker who showed up in G1. Who really gives a :schin Who really cares if just because DW Frankensteined a leading character out of him, he's a mainline repaint figure. He's a cool first time character and yellow makes a cool seeker repaint. Never bothered with the craptacular Universe Thrust repaint but the Classics Starscream mold would absolutely rock alongside the others. I know Thundercracker is getting the shaft but did he really do that much to begin with. Aside from Starscream I really don't remember any of the others having much to offer in the department of a personality.

 

Just saying.

Pete: As someone who never stopped collecting/loving Transformers, it's hard for me to empathise with someone declaring a period where Transformers don't count for them as Transformers; I could understand if someone said that anything from 1984-1987 was their "favourite" period of Transformers and that was the core period that they would focus on collecting figures from and admitted that they had little interest/knowledge in Transformers outside of that period... but to say that anything outside that period disqualifies as being part of Transformers -- even to say that G1 ended in 1987 -- is just grossly inaccurate.

 

Fact: G1 ended in 1993.

 

Man... I could rant on about this for another 3000 words...

 

...but I won't. This time. ;)

Um, maybe you guys are all used to me being argumentative and stuff, but all I'm talking about here is my own perception. Of course I know when G1 ended (though "1993" seems a bit late, as we were already into G2 by that point, but I'm sure there's some obscure G1 thing that existed at that point that I don't know about and you do). But you can't really say that my own feelings about Transformers are "inaccurate" since I'm just telling you about my own experience.

 

When the G1 cartoon ended in 1987, I lost interest in the franchise. (The advent of the Pretenders immediately following said cancellation DEFINITELY killed it for me.) I was fifteen years old by that point, and I had other interests, like girls, music, girls, cars, girls, partying, and girls. I kept the toys around, but I boxed them all up when I went away to college in 1990 (okay, I took Rippersnapper with me; he was too cute to leave behind). I later gave them all away to some kid my sister was babysitting.

 

I paid only casual attention to G2 as it unfolded, less so to Beast Wars and Beast Machines. By the time Robots in Disguise came out, I was 29 years old and was married w/ a three-year-old son. If not for me discovering the Car Brothers in a game store (remember when they sold toys at those places?), I would most likely never have gotten into Transformers again. But one HOLY SH*T moment and $30 later, I was back in. But my interest has always been in the Transformers I knew; and IMO there's nothing wrong with that. Some people like A/E/C; whatever, I don't care. It's what they like.

 

I later got into BW/BM at the recommendation of a friend I worked with; but again, since I discovered those shows as an adult, and since they are so indisputably different from the Transformers cartoon that aired in the 1980's, I never really made that connection. And in my defense, Forward and DiTillio themselves have said that they always viewed their show as "Beast Wars" first and "Transformers" second. That's kind of how I look at it too. (As for Beast Machines, that's like Stargate or something as far as I'm concerned: simply a great sci-fi show with a few nice fan references to stuff from the past.)

 

But you know, all of this is just my own experience, like I said. I'm sure it would be different for someone who never left the franchise.

I know Thundercracker is getting the shaft but did he really do that much to begin with. Aside from Starscream I really don't remember any of the others having much to offer in the department of a personality.

Thundercracker had an awesome personality and was a really well written character with a LOT of potential, but sadly, no writer in the entire history of Transformers - anywhere (not even Furman) has ever even attempted to exploit the untapped wealth of character potential in Thundercracker.

 

First of all, his motto is "the deadliest weapon is terror," which I think is an awesome line. Here is a Decepticon who specialises in using fear and terror as weapons! Living in a post September 11 time, we know what a remarkably effectual weapon terror is.

 

His tech specs also says "contemptuous of anything that cannot fly," in the cartoon Powerglide was portrayed as an Autobot who was arrogant and proud because he was one of few Autobots who could fly - and this is accurate to his tech specs persona. They could have portrayed Thundercracker in a similar light, only in a far more malicious sense -- whereas Powerglide is just mucking around with his mates when he's showing off his flying skills, Thundercracker would use his aerial superiority to strike fear into the ground-based Autobot cars. This is further enforced by another line in his tech specs which says "produces controlled, deafening sonic booms that can be heard for 200 miles" -- admittedly the G1 and G2 comics did take advantage of this ability - but that was about the extent of Thundercracker's character development in the Marvel comics.

 

But the most interesting part of Thundercracker's persona is this: "Not totally convinced of the Decepticons' cause, but they persuaded him to continue battling Autobots." This makes Thundercracker similar to Mirage in a sense - neither Transformer is fully convinced of their side's cause. And this is something that writers have never exploited, despite the fact that it is such an interesting character trait. The Transformers are at war - naturally there would be individuals on both sides that would question their faction's role in the war. For example, we know that there are plenty of Coalition personnel serving in Iraq atm who are strongly criticising the Coalition's cause in Iraq. We had the same thing in the Korean War (as portrayed in M*A*S*H), the Vietnam War (which attracted incredible protest as it was the first war to be broadcast live on television causing soldiers and civilians to seriously question the role of America and her allies in Vietnam), the Gulf War and of course, the current campaign in Iraq amongst many others. Thundercracker and Mirage have both been convinced to fight for the Decepticons and Autobots for the time being, but neither of them are fully convinced to do so... it doesn't mean that these character's aren't necessarily loyal, but it would mean that they could have provided a lot of anti-war voices. Rattrap effectively filled this role in Beast Wars - although he was a loyal and dependable Maximal, he was the skeptical voice against the Beast Wars amongst the Maximals. Waspinator too, although he didn't really speak out that much until the end. ;p

 

The really sad thing is that Bumblejumper (Bumper) has received more in-depth character development in the Dreamwave comics, than Thundercracker ever has in the entire history of Transformers!!

 

Skywarp has received more character development than Thundercracker -- not a huge amount more, but then again, Skywarp is a pretty simplistic character -- fiercely loyal to Megatron who would probably blow his own foot off without Megatron's supervision.

I guess i dont understand why people feel its important to get DOGMATIC about Geewun.

I mean - if we accept the fact that DW and IDW are making new comics in the "G1" universe. Then it only makes sense that they would utilise the entire mythos, and integrate it.

Except DW's Transformers series never utilized the mythos nor integrated it, really. So no, I don't consider it G1. It uses G1 characters but I think it conflicts enough with the cartoon and Marvel comic enough that it's not G1.

 

Wheeljack and Bumblebee would never stood a chance against Yellow Seeker #1 if it had been this all-powerful character that DW portrayed him as.

 

Bumper in the comic was cool, he was actually a G1 TOY. Sunstorm was fan wank pure and simple. Dumb fan wank at that.

we accept the fact that DW and IDW are making new comics in the "G1" universe.

 

IDW's new series isn't G1. It's as separatere as RiD or A/E/C.