Starscream fans should LOVE Screamer's role in DOTM--even though you might not like what ultimately happens to him. Starscream acted JUST LIKE you would expect Starscream to act. He was Starscream all the way, which is the standard for him that the Bayverse has set. Beautiful. He had some impact and a couple of great lines. A perfect portrayal of my favorite Transformer. I have no complaints here...

 

 

Pfft that's fucking bullshit. What I saw there was a fat ugly scrap heap acting like screamer. In fact, I CHEERED when he died! Hellscream's death was so satisfying! Of course the fact that despite hearing a distinct "HA HA HA HA!!" from him, he had a grumpy facial expression the whole time. Fucking idiots... A fitting death for a terrible interpretation of an awesome villain!

 

Actions never do it on their own. Appearance is necessary too. And boy did this design ever fail.

 

STAY dead, you god awful thing! Worst Starscream ever!

 

Is that so?

 

Bayscream did a better job of being G1 than G1 Screamer...who did not even match salient details of his G1 bio and was as incompetent as the day was long.

 

Bayscream had no facial expression. He's not an amniote--higher or otherwise--and has no equivalent (or need of) the facial musculatory complex necessary to affect the grin that seems to be the sole sum and substance of Starscream for you. You must have been pissed in all the G1 episodes where he didn't grin treacherously, huh? I'll say it again: The BAYVERSE DID STARSCREAM PROUD. He acted like him, sounded like him, and had all the right cues. Just because the Bayverse saw fit to try to make their creations stay in line with the primary rules of physics and they found it curious that machines that have no need for anthropomorphized faces or cheeks should have them is no reason to blatantly disregard the fact that BayScream did everything Screamer is supposed to do and more.

 

The humans work with Cybertronians in the Bayverse and have access to both their technology and their methods. We saw the beatings they laid down on various robots in all 3 movies. I know...we'd all have loved to see Megatron die, be reborn as Galvatron and take out Starscream while commenting on his coronation. It's not 1986 and its not TF:TM, though...which, if memory serves, was a critical and financial failure.

 

I cannot believe I'm defending Michael Bay or anything he's done.

 

No need for facial expressions? Get off your high horse and watch the Twins Scenes or the Fallen's sinister little grin as he grabbed the Matrix at long last.

 

And if TFs have no need to be anthro, then why does Megatron have TEETH? Why do they TFs have SPIT? They don't need to eat! Why does Devy have BALLS?

 

Your whole ulta-realistic argument crumbles after you take into account this is MICHAEL BAY!

 

 

:rofl

 

You've got to be kidding me, man. My "high horse?" Atmo, Atmo, Atmo.

 

Let's start at the beginning.

 

The fact that they gave some Bayformers facial expressions--or what can or cannot be summed up as such--is irrelevant. The gravity of it evaporates quickly when 1) the faces of the Twins elicited such vitriol from, well, gee...at least half the TF fanbase and should be taken as in in-joke and nothing more; 2) I don't recall The Fallen smirking or grinning or anything. If I happen to be mistaken and he did, so what? He seems to have had more contact with humans than any other Cybertronian. Contact with another race will generally result in one taking something from that race--no matter how much they detest that race. Humanity has some GREAT examples of that and 3) There is a long laundry list of Bayverse Cybertronians that have discernible faces with eyes, a quasi-nasal area and a discernible mouth. They show no facial expressions. Their mood is conveyed by what they say and how they say it and THEIR ACTIONS. Not by being able to smirk. Watch an early episode from G1 on a black and white TV set and try to tell me the difference between Skywarp and Starscream. For a stretch there, SKYWARP embodied was what we now generally demand of Starscream. Remember those days?

 

Devastator has balls because ROTF was stupid, man. Come on. Everybody knows that. It's the kind of point that is frivolous to point out and frivolous to argue against. Why? Because it was another in-joke and poke at the dedicated TF fans. ROTF was full of them. And BTW: this little tidbit and the other items you closed with reference physical features that are NOT EVEN FEATURES SOLELY POSSESSED BY HUMAN BEINGS OR HIGHER PRIMATES. Hence, the term "anthropomorphic." Megatron's teeth are not discernibly human. Why does he have them? Who knows? But they would make one heck of an OFFENSIVE WEAPON. Why do they spit? Who knows? I can name you some invertebrates that spit. And more than a few Bayverse Cybertronians are not even vaguely anthro. This is one of the reasons why so many didn't like the Wheelsnakes. A number of Constructicons were not anthro. Are you going to harp on H.R.Giger's alien?

 

The fact that they do have some organic trappings is the Bayverse (and every other TF universe) predictably steeped their fictional sentient machines in some medium that we can fully recognize them in: organic beings in an organic world. We would have issues with them otherwise if they didn't do or possess some feature or features that we can relate with. Before you start, please don't bother trying to argue this point. You already have a problem with BayScream because he looks less human than any of his previous counterparts, and have repeatedly acknowledged that you are fully ignoring the fact that BayScream acts just like Screamer should act.

 

As far as the personage and affectations of Mike Bay damaging the structural integrity of my "ultra-realistic argument..?" Well, I don't know what that means. You'll have to help me out on that one, Atmo. See, I've never thought that the Bayverse had the market cornered on realism because their alien robot designs are designs fundamentally built with identifiably human specifications and restraints. Under the chassis, they do not look ALIEN. They look man-made. In some ways, the Animated designs are more "realistic" because one could successfully argue that they are more identifiably "alien" since they are robots that do not look like robots. No gears or brass fittings or strutwork hanging out on any of the Animated designs. They look fully organic. But that doesn't affect the fact that I think the Bayverse Cybertronians are the best Cybertronians that I've ever seen.

You completely sidestepped around my other argument. If they're meant to be alien and not express emotions like humans, WHY DO THE DECEPTICONS SPEAK ENGLISH?!?! This race hates Earth! They hate humans! The Cybertronian language was already clearly shown when Frenzy spoke it. Yet now MEGATRON and even THE FALLEN speak English. Why would Earth/Human-hating robots speak English to each other????

 

But no, they cant emote. Oh god no. That would ruin everything!

You completely sidestepped around my other argument. If they're meant to be alien and not express emotions like humans, WHY DO THE DECEPTICONS SPEAK ENGLISH?!?! This race hates Earth! They hate humans! The Cybertronian language was already clearly shown when Frenzy spoke it. Yet now MEGATRON and even THE FALLEN speak English. Why would Earth/Human-hating robots speak English to each other????

 

But no, they cant emote. Oh god no. That would ruin everything!

 

I didn't sidestep anything, Atmo. YOUR MIND IS ALREADY MADE UP.

 

Also, let's be frank here: unless you plan on holding the entire TF universe accountable for their fictional sentient robot aliens speaking English, then you need to relinquish this point in a hurry, Atmo. The Bayverse explained why their Autobots speak English, BTW. A quick retcon that would take 15 seconds to produce would explain why their Decepticons have adopted the language. Hell, it wouldn't even be a RETCON. DOTM set the stage for it. This is once where you'd use your brain and take the next intuitive step as to why the Bayverse Decepticons speak English. Here's a hint: the reasoning for it is actually quite intelligent and makes more sense than anything else I've seen thus far in the TF universe. Here's a second: from my professional experience, a mass audience may or may not accept 2.5 hours of subtitles for their non-english speaking robots. The default is to make the subject matter as accessible as possible.

 

Another point you missed, Atmo: I've been around skinheads. I've worked with a couple. I know they hate me, but yet they listen to hip-hop. There are a billion and one half other things I can lay on the table here, but out of respect for everyone else who might just be offended by the subject matter, I'm not gonna go into this territory any more than I already have. Suffice it to, with a modicum of thought, you will be able to come up with some events that you've seen with your own eyes that renders your "they hate humans so they would forsake anything having to do with humans" argument.

 

Is that so?

 

Bayscream did a better job of being G1 than G1 Screamer...who did not even match salient details of his G1 bio and was as incompetent as the day was long.

 

Bayscream had no facial expression. He's not an amniote--higher or otherwise--and has no equivalent (or need of) the facial musculatory complex necessary to affect the grin that seems to be the sole sum and substance of Starscream for you. You must have been pissed in all the G1 episodes where he didn't grin treacherously, huh? I'll say it again: The BAYVERSE DID STARSCREAM PROUD. He acted like him, sounded like him, and had all the right cues. Just because the Bayverse saw fit to try to make their creations stay in line with the primary rules of physics and they found it curious that machines that have no need for anthropomorphized faces or cheeks should have them is no reason to blatantly disregard the fact that BayScream did everything Screamer is supposed to do and more.

 

The humans work with Cybertronians in the Bayverse and have access to both their technology and their methods. We saw the beatings they laid down on various robots in all 3 movies. I know...we'd all have loved to see Megatron die, be reborn as Galvatron and take out Starscream while commenting on his coronation. It's not 1986 and its not TF:TM, though...which, if memory serves, was a critical and financial failure.

 

I cannot believe I'm defending Michael Bay or anything he's done.

 

Oh shit you fed the troll...

 

:rofl

 

shockwaves mouth looked like a female body part

 

I want the garbage truck as toy.

And the first thing I thought seeing sams parents rv was Motormaster

 

Yeah....kind of did, but he was still bad-a$$ looking.

 

The garbage truck do want :hbang

 

 

Despite Starscream's pitiful death his action scenes were awesome!

I liked the Bayverse version of Starscream quite a bit and thought he was very faithful to previous iterations of the character. I like him even more now that he's dead. The same goes for Shockwave, Soundwave, Barricade, and especially Megatron, who got his head out of his robo-rectum just in time for Optimus to take it off his chassis.

 

Oh, and kudos on the AOA reference Shellformer. That ugly little bastard really did look like Sugar Man.

 

Also, let's be frank here: unless you plan on holding the entire TF universe accountable for their fictional sentient robot aliens speaking English, then you need to relinquish this point in a hurry, Atmo. The Bayverse explained why their Autobots speak English, BTW. A quick retcon that would take 15 seconds to produce would explain why their Decepticons have adopted the language. Hell, it wouldn't even be a RETCON. DOTM set the stage for it. This is once where you'd use your brain and take the next intuitive step as to why the Bayverse Decepticons speak English. Here's a hint: the reasoning for it is actually quite intelligent and makes more sense than anything else I've seen thus far in the TF universe. Here's a second: from my professional experience, a mass audience may or may not accept 2.5 hours of subtitles for their non-english speaking robots. The default is to make the subject matter as accessible as possible.

 

 

Yeah sure that's a good off-screen explanation, but what about an ON-SCREEN one? The scenes where they have to talk to humans make sense, but when theyre UP IN SPACE and megatron is conversing with the fallen, they're speaking english. This is absurd. Like I said, they hate humans and therefore would NEVER adapt such a primitive language!

I felt sure that once it came out, I would break down and want to see DotM in a theatre. I was picking the kids up from my moms today and I drove by the theatre down the street from my boyhood home and saw "Transformers 3" up on the old crappy billboard and was amazed by the shear overwhelming ambivalence I felt. I thought, if I had turned this corner and seen Transformers written in lights... well,cannot in mismatched plastic lettering over lights, 5-10 years ago, my heart would have skipped a beat and I'd have been filled with child like joy.

 

I can't judge this film because I haven't seen it, I imagine I will at some point in life. However I saw the first two, I have read some differing opinions, and I just cannot imagine what would compel me to deliberately expend two and a half hours on this, much less pay for it.

 

I just can't be bothered.

Im a cynic of the movies and I actually liked it. I hate everything about Revenge of the Fallen, Michael Bay and Ugly McHuntington Ugly but still I thought it was the best of the 3 movies. It didn't try to force an obscene amount of new characters on you, it didn't bother wasting too much time with girlfriends being gone or new ones gotten and there was some oh shit moments in there too.

 

 

When people were getting liquified I said oh shit, also, I didnt expect Soundwave to make his appearance when he did. That was awesome.

 

 

 

Oh. And STFU about Starscreaem already. And I'm talking to everybody. You either liked him, hated him or somewhere in between. At any rate it can't hurt you. The bad bad movies are over now. Because if it's one thing I really really want to do, it's read 3 to 5 pages about how Starscream should/should not have a facial expression in a thread about the movie overall.

 

How about someone just make it it's own topic and add a poll. Settle the debate. Forever.

I'll settle on that

Thanks man. And just to be fair I think we all kind of have that one thing in the fandom that we love dearly and will stop at nothing to defend. This whole SS debate was starting to verge on Tramp v Liege WWIII so I had to weigh in. I don't know if I could handle another Murder thread.

 

For me I love Soundwave. But I've been lucky in that most iterations of him remain fairly close to the original or differ in ways that don't usually bother me. When he goes face-plate-less and becomes a female or something, then I'll go insane. The expressionless Bay version didn't really bother me either because he's supposed to be expressionless in the first place. I hate his dumb crab mouth though. I hope that doesn't make it thru to the toy.