Or we could have Giant Robots hitting each other.

 

That explanation is exactly why they shouldn't do it.

:pfx

I did go to films school - but i must have slept through the Mass-Shifting class that Prime-Collector is referring to.

 

 

I thank you for you're agreement Rose. :thumb And just to clarify I was refering to the mandatory "Don't waste valuable screentime on useless exposition seminar" I probably sat behind you at.

I did go to films school - but i must have slept through the Mass-Shifting class that Prime-Collector is referring to.

 

 

I thank you for you're agreement Rose. :thumb And just to clarify I was refering to the mandatory "Don't waste valuable screentime on useless exposition seminar" I probably sat behind you at.

 

Film School TransFans unite!

 

Although, I didn't graduate...is that a problem?

The film school ties explain alot.

 

Don't worry I didn't graduate eaither Hobbes... Is that a point in our favor or not?

Wrong, there is a very bign connection. The outward appearance of the piece of equipment isn't as important as its basic function. Soundwave's basic function is to transmit, intercept, recieve, analize and report or replay communications to and from his fellow Decepticons. His original Cybertronian alt mode was designed for that purpose. He simply took on the outward appearance as well as functions of a tape deck when he came to Earth becasue it was similar in function and appearance to his original Cybertroniant mode, though not identical. His function often required him to infiltrate enemy and human areas, so he needed an innoculous form. He also needed to plug into other systems and copy the data stored which is also something he would not be able to do with any other type of alt mode. Hence his alt mode which is able to do all of that. This would be just as true in the movie.

You keep bringing up Soundwave's Cybertronian alternate mode, but you keep forgetting one thing.

 

Back on Cybertron, he didn't need to shrink down to do his job. He was, for all intents and purposes, a Cybertronian street lamp. He did not infiltetrate Autobot HQ with this mode, nor does a lamp post sound like my idea of an object that "transmits, intercepts, recieves, analizes and reports or replays communications".

 

If we go off the example of his Cybertronian alt mode, you know that LASERBEAK did all the actual recording, receiving, reporting whatever, by being REALLY tiny already and flying up to the Autobot's sky light and peeking in. Not once does the lamp post get involved until it's time to go.

 

So if movie Soundwave wants to be true to original Soundwave, he just needs to turn into something (and as G1 has just proved, it doesn't even have to relate to recording or playing back data), so long as he can have little robots running around and doing his legwork for him. Which they would accomplish without mass shifting.

Yes, there is an established lore off which the Transformers is based, but "based on" does not mean "works the same as". Smallville is "based on" the Superman comics, but in the comics, Lex Luthor and Lois Lane didn't spend a ton of time in Kansas watching Clark grow up without glasses on, thus negating his disguise in Metropolis. The rules change because of that.

 

No, they don't. and, overall, the movie does work the same as the comics and cartoon. The only difference is that the designs themselves were done to be more realistic. All of the basic themes and story elements are identical. all of the inconic features of these characters are the same.

 

What does an ambulance carry that a regular car doesn't?

Medical equipment for starters. Everything he would need to repair an injured Autobot or tend to a wounded human. It also has the added benefit of fitting more thematically with his role as a doctor.

 

He could be a news van - full of electronic broadcasting equipment and not an unusual sight to see. How is that not as good?

Because it sticks out like a sore thumb and would draw unwanted attention. It also would not allow the other Decepticons direct access to the messages received. That is why.

 

Not ignored, no. But neither can they be relied upon to answer questions about how the rules of the movie world work.

Yes, they can; quite easily in fact.

 

In your opinion. I listed my primary identifying factors for Soundwave earlier in our discussion:

 

For Soundwave to be done right, he needs: to be fiercely loyal to Megatron, a man of few words, have some minions pop out from someplace, and be capable of spying. That's it. Period.

Wrong. His function as Communications officer requires him to have a form designed specifically for receiving radio transmissions. He needs to be a communications device of some form, be it a stereo system, a CD player, a computer, etc. Not a vehicle. His place in the Decepticon heirarchy requires that his robot mode be on par with that of the other normal sized Decepticons, not a squirt like Frenzy.

 

You said I was wrong because he needed the alt. mode to perform his function on the team. I've since listed several ways he could perform his function on the team without turning into a radio, and several reasons why he would want it to be that way, but you just keep falling back on this same argument.

What was wrong was the idea that the only things that were important for the character were those four things you mentioned, that being "he needs: to be fiercely loyal to Megatron, a man of few words, have some minions pop out from someplace, and be capable of spying." That is wrong. On top of those four things were the other factors I mentioned which includes having a mode specifically designed for communications and being completely innoulous and ubiquitous. which a News Van is not. A news van would not be very good for spying.

 

I'd say the appearance of a non-mass shifting stereo Transfomer (Frenzy) is very much an addressing of Soundwave in the first movie. Because the sequel wouldn't only have to explain how the technology works, and where it came from, but why Frenzy-as-stereo is no longer sufficient, and another Decepticon stereo must be brought in with this new ability...and why this incredibly cool tech is being used to turn a big robot into a tiny stereo, and isn't being used to do something much more immediately effective to the Decepticon's cause, like make Megatron grow in size, or shrink all the Autobots instead.

 

And, yeah, sorry. "Prove me wrong" was a poor choice of words. "Counter the argument" is more what I meant.

Frenzy is not a good example. He is a minion, not a trusted Leiutenant. His personality and role is also vastly different. Secondly, he does size shift to an extent through parts compression. He goes from a radio that is about maybe a 2' x 8" x 4" to a 4'+ tall robot. Frenzy is purely a spy and (I believe) saboteur in this movie, and, from what I understand, can take on almost any small form, though I am not positive on this. Therefore, having him also have actually mass shifting to a full sized 30' tall robot would be too much for one character, and for the first movie. That is why he isn't Soundwave like he was originally going to be. He didn't fit the character.

 

Oh, and Prime Collector, Cassettes are still used for audio recording, even today. They may have been replaced by CDs for music, but they are still used by reporters recording interviews, by students recording lectures, by secrataries recording notations, and people copying their favorite music from the radio. They aren't dead yet. That is why many portable stereos still have tape recorders in addition to CD players.

The film school ties explain alot.

 

Don't worry I didn't graduate eaither Hobbes... Is that a point in our favor or not?

 

I graduated - but it was from UCSB so is that a point for or against?

Medical equipment for starters. Everything he would need to repair an injured Autobot or tend to a wounded human. It also has the added benefit of fitting more thematically with his role as a doctor.

 

Okay, wait.

 

Put Mass Shifting on hold for a sec. Please name one piece of equipment found on an ambulance useful for repairing an injured robot.

Wrong, there is a very bign connection. The outward appearance of the piece of equipment isn't as important as its basic function. Soundwave's basic function is to transmit, intercept, recieve, analize and report or replay communications to and from his fellow Decepticons. His original Cybertronian alt mode was designed for that purpose. He simply took on the outward appearance as well as functions of a tape deck when he came to Earth becasue it was similar in function and appearance to his original Cybertroniant mode, though not identical. His function often required him to infiltrate enemy and human areas, so he needed an innoculous form. He also needed to plug into other systems and copy the data stored which is also something he would not be able to do with any other type of alt mode. Hence his alt mode which is able to do all of that. This would be just as true in the movie.

You keep bringing up Soundwave's Cybertronian alternate mode, but you keep forgetting one thing.

 

Back on Cybertron, he didn't need to shrink down to do his job. He was, for all intents and purposes, a Cybertronian street lamp. He did not infiltetrate Autobot HQ with this mode, nor does a lamp post sound like my idea of an object that "transmits, intercepts, recieves, analizes and reports or replays communications".

 

If we go off the example of his Cybertronian alt mode, you know that LASERBEAK did all the actual recording, receiving, reporting whatever, by being REALLY tiny already and flying up to the Autobot's sky light and peeking in. Not once does the lamp post get involved until it's time to go.

 

So if movie Soundwave wants to be true to original Soundwave, he just needs to turn into something (and as G1 has just proved, it doesn't even have to relate to recording or playing back data), so long as he can have little robots running around and doing his legwork for him. Which they would accomplish without mass shifting.

 

Terrorcon, he wasn't a "street lamp". He was a communications hub. He didn't need to shrink because his current alt mode didn't require it. Hiowever, the Earth equivalent, that being a portable stereo system would require it. That is the key difference. The size changing has to do with the disguise features of the alt mode, not the function. The alt mode itself is what enhances the function of the character's specialty. And, yes, his alt mode does have to relate directly to his function. and all of his minions did have mass shifting capabilities as well. Yes, it does have be something that records, plays back, transmits, receives and analizes transmissions. That was why he had the alt mode of a tape deck in the cartoons, and why the best updated alt mode would be a portable stereo system. And that cannot be accomplished without mass conversion.

 

Or we could have Giant Robots hitting each other.

 

We're getting that in the first movie. We need something moree for the second.

Great fix tramp. It'll only take 3-4 min. of exposition to explain why a suitibly main character is using that device. Wouldn't want to waste that time on an action sequence, story, or Primus forbid, character development. Maybe they will have it in the sequel: "Transformers 2:Semantic Dialogue"

 

Hell forget the movie lets all go home and read a TF RPG sourcebook. In braile.

 

I have all sorts of crazy ideas as too what would make the TFs done right. Prime should have a Trailer. Shouldn't have flames. But a disapearing trailer is weak. Makeing an excuse for where is comes from would waste more time than its worth. Animating it at all would probably cost a hundred thousand dollers. So I can see why a filmaker, if they could find any way to, would get rid of it. And I just have to get over that.

 

Still havin' trouble with the flames though.

 

 

 

We're getting that in the first movie. We need something moree for the second.

 

 

...Shrinking Robots Hitting each other?