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Out of curiosity, if Soundwave hadn't changed size in the old cartoon, would you still insist on him doing so were he to appear in the film?

By that do you mean if he had been a giant tape deck, or a tiny robot? Eithe way, I think i wopuld have had more of a problem with him back then if he didn't mass convert. a tiny robot is pretty useless, and a giant tape deck would have stuck out like a sore thumb. Secondly, I honestly don't think we would have even had a "Soundwave" if he didn't transform into what he did. His alt mode is what gave him his name.

Either way is fine, or if he turned into a flying armadillo. The question still stands: if Soundwave didn't change size in the cartoon, would you still insist on him changing size in a Hollywood blockbuster?

If he turned into strctly a giant radio, and couldn't shrink down to a more realistic size, I wouldn't even want him in the movie at all. A giant radio would really destroy any suspension of disbelief because any human in the movie or even cartoon would realize something was wrong. A giant radio is a very bad disguise. If he were a tiny robot, smaller than a Human, I doubt he would survive long enough in the show to be memorable enough to even warrant inclusion in a movie. Even if he did, the character would have been vastly different than the Soundwave we know, both in character, and in his place within the Decepticon hierarchy. In all reality, if he didn't grow to large size in robot mode in the original series, his whole function and character would be more like movie Frenzy, not like the Soundwave we know. He would have been a lowly pion; a minion, not a trusted leiutenant. Thus, Movie Frenzy would be Soundwave. However, he isn't because the characters, functions, and their places in the Decepticon hierarchy, as well as their importance, are vastly different.

That's all well and good, but it doesn't answer the question at all. If he hadn't changed size in the cartoon, would you want him to do so in the movie? Yes or no will suffice.

 

By the way, are you in politics? ^_-

Actually, I'm a freelance graphic designer, illustrator and cartoonist. Secondly, it does answer the question because those factors are inherent to the question and the apprepriate answer.

Actually, your response told me that if one or the other of his modes didn't match the cartoon then you wouldn't want him in the film at all. That wasn't my question; I asked whether you'd want him to change size in the film if he hadn't in the cartoon. Please answer in words of three letters or fewer. ^_-

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I can't do that becuase it is more complicated than that. Hence the reason why I gave the answer I did.

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I think Tramps argument is suffering from Magic Shrinky.

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In other words, he can use a human dupe to carry him inside, or use Frenzy under the cover of night.
or use Frenzy under the cover of night.
or use Frenzy

So why use Soundwave AT ALL if Frenzy is already RUNNING AROUND inside the building and ABLE TO TURN INTO A STEREO to SPY on people.

For starters, Soundwave is more powerful. He is more appropriate for an officer and trusted leiutenant. Frenzy is fine for a minion, not an officer. That is why they made the movie character Frenzy. And, because he is a more popular as a character, from a marketing stand point, it makes sense to bring him in in the sequel. Does that mean he has to share the same exact alt mode as Frenzy? No. There are other designs as well as related pieces of electronic equipment which would work just as well and be just as ubiquitous, such as the portable DVD player or laptop computer. The only problem with a laptop is coming up with a way to make it transform since it is so flat. A desk top computer could work, but it isn't really all that portable, though it is almost as ubiquitous. I would get suspicious if I saw a desktop outside though.

So how does being more powerful help him spy on people? Spys are meant to be not seen, or at least, not noticed as spys. What spys did you know that were better at being spys because they could lift more?

 

How is SOUNDWAVE doing the spy work more appropiate for "trusted leiutentant and officer"? Does Prime send Ironhide when he wants some sneaky scouting done? No! He sends Bumblebee! The LITTLE and FAST guy.

 

Third, let's say robot mode boy gets spotted. Soundwave turns into 30 foot robot...it's pretty damn obvious what happened, even if he kills everyone who sees him.

 

Frenzy could do the same, but also use his smaller size and swift speed to quickly hide, transform into something, and then get out while the going's good.

 

You're forgetting that they'll likely spy on the humans. Soundwave's "more power" doesn't help him anymore than Frenzy's if all he has to worry about are revolver toting squishy fleshbags. And even if they spy on the Autobots, the smaller robot is the one that's much easier to hide if something commits a SNAFU.

 

 

 

I suddenly got this mental image in my head of Soundwave using shrinky magic to hide inside Ironhide, spy on the Autobots, and then Ironhide transforms and steps on the tiny 4 pound Decepticon warrior in his piddly alt mode.

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I can't do that becuase it is more complicated than that. Hence the reason why I gave the answer I did.

How is it more complicated? Would changing such a minor part of a cheap cartoon designed to sell toys twenty years ago cause you to change your mind about the detail were it used in the film?

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... Can we get a picture of that?

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I can't do that becuase it is more complicated than that. Hence the reason why I gave the answer I did.

How is it more complicated? Would changing such a minor part of a cheap cartoon designed to sell toys twenty years ago cause you to change your mind about the detail were it used in the film?

Mass conversion wasn't a minor part of Soundwave. It was a major part of who he was as a character. Without it, he would not have been the same character we know. He woudl be very different. If he was this tiny, 2' tall pipsqueek of a robot, he would be a minion, an nobody, a tool, not a senior member of Megatron's inner circle. His Mass conversion capability was a defining feature of the character. it is what made him so versatile in robot mode, as well as capable of perfoming his primary function, and it was also made his alt mode believable.

 

Secondly, if it was such a "cheap" cartoon, why is it still popular today. The animation and story telling may be dated by todays standards, but it was state of the art and top quality back then. It wasn't a "cheap" commercial simply to sell toys. It was a damn good show for its era.

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Well if sticking to G1 equals having both Blaster & Soundwave in the back of Ironhide, playing music without Ironhide or Blaster noticing Soundwave was there like in the one Season Two Episode - then screw the G1 stuff. We've got enough of it.

 

Also, I've been thinking - if loosing Mass-Shifting is like our major G1 Loss to the Movie Universe - we've got it pretty good. I mean we still get Autobots vs. Decepticons, the Faction Symbols, A War Between Giant Transforming Robots, Optimus Prime (in G1 colors I might add), Megatron, Starscream, Ironhide, Jazz, & Bumblebee. That's a lot we were given!

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In other words, he can use a human dupe to carry him inside, or use Frenzy under the cover of night.
or use Frenzy under the cover of night.
or use Frenzy

So why use Soundwave AT ALL if Frenzy is already RUNNING AROUND inside the building and ABLE TO TURN INTO A STEREO to SPY on people.

For starters, Soundwave is more powerful. He is more appropriate for an officer and trusted leiutenant. Frenzy is fine for a minion, not an officer. That is why they made the movie character Frenzy. And, because he is a more popular as a character, from a marketing stand point, it makes sense to bring him in in the sequel. Does that mean he has to share the same exact alt mode as Frenzy? No. There are other designs as well as related pieces of electronic equipment which would work just as well and be just as ubiquitous, such as the portable DVD player or laptop computer. The only problem with a laptop is coming up with a way to make it transform since it is so flat. A desk top computer could work, but it isn't really all that portable, though it is almost as ubiquitous. I would get suspicious if I saw a desktop outside though.

So how does being more powerful help him spy on people? Spys are meant to be not seen, or at least, not noticed as spys. What spys did you know that were better at being spys because they could lift more?

 

How is SOUNDWAVE doing the spy work more appropiate for "trusted leiutentant and officer"? Does Prime send Ironhide when he wants some sneaky scouting done? No! He sends Bumblebee! The LITTLE and FAST guy.

 

Third, let's say robot mode boy gets spotted. Soundwave turns into 30 foot robot...it's pretty damn obvious what happened, even if he kills everyone who sees him.

 

Frenzy could do the same, but also use his smaller size and swift speed to quickly hide, transform into something, and then get out while the going's good.

 

You're forgetting that they'll likely spy on the humans. Soundwave's "more power" doesn't help him anymore than Frenzy's if all he has to worry about are revolver toting squishy fleshbags. And even if they spy on the Autobots, the smaller robot is the one that's much easier to hide if something commits a SNAFU.

 

 

 

I suddenly got this mental image in my head of Soundwave using shrinky magic to hide inside Ironhide, spy on the Autobots, and then Ironhide transforms and steps on the tiny 4 pound Decepticon warrior in his piddly alt mode.

 

Sure, but once the Autobots get there, the little guy is toast. That is where the size and power come into play. How many times has Ravage or Laserbeak had to hightail it in orde to avoid being squashed by the Autobots?

 

Well if sticking to G1 equals having both Blaster & Soundwave in the back of Ironhide, playing music without Ironhide or Blaster noticing Soundwave was there like in the one Season Two Episode - then screw the G1 stuff. We've got enough of it.

 

Also, I've been thinking - if loosing Mass-Shifting is like our major G1 Loss to the Movie Universe - we've got it pretty good. I mean we still get Autobots vs. Decepticons, the Faction Symbols, A War Between Giant Transforming Robots, Optimus Prime (in G1 colors I might add), Megatron, Starscream, Ironhide, Jazz, & Bumblebee. That's a lot we were given!

The thing is though, if you lose Mass conversion completely, you lose Soundwave completely. You cannot use Soundwave at all. It is that impoortant to hiis character.

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Secondly, if it was such a "cheap" cartoon, why is it still popular today. The animation and story telling may be dated by todays standards, but it was state of the art and top quality back then. It wasn't a "cheap" commercial simply to sell toys. It was a damn good show for its era.

Not to battle over semantics and such - but from being someone who's worked in animation (yes, I'm throwing out credentials to support my post) - G1 was far from state of the art and top quality - it was ridiculously sloppy and cheap - tons of animation errors, budget issues, and general crappiness. I love the G1 Cartoon and can watch it any day, but it was NOT anywhere near what it could have possibly been, evne to that day-n-age. Cheap Toy Commericals were generally the way of things back then - doesn't mean they were great or state of the art. Not by a long shot.

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