I havn't seen anyone really discussing this aspect....

 

 

but what is the deal with "descendants" in Transformers? They are MACHINES - they are built or manufacturered, then energized and given life by the cube, right???

 

So while on the satern moon, what was with Starscream holding a new 'hatchling' that was dying because of lack of energy??? That aspect didn't make a lot of sense to me. Not enough energy - stop making them. Are the machines having sex for purposes of reproduction?? Is there a queen laying eggs?? I think they went a bit too far with the alien theme on that one. It could have been left out.

 

 

there are two different issues here, as I see it...

 

 

TIME LINE issues

 

CREATTION issues

 

I was dealing more so with the later. I just don't understand how it is that Transformers are 'descendants' or were 'hatchlings.' Aren't they manufacturered and then energized? I could understand things like the leadership being passed, and thus memories, morals, objectives, etc being passed on. But acting like these 'machines' are hatchlings that are born thru alien-esque goo - just didn't make a lot of sense to me.

 

 

I am pressed to call that one of the lowest points in the film. That whole Nemesis sequence with the fallen and all just needs to be removed.

 

:win :win

 

Hmmm well guys there are female transformers for a reason, they are called robots by earthlings, but the transformers don't call themselves that they do call themselves living machines though or automotans the protoforms are oldschool knowledge, when a transformer is being transported it took on this form, bay twisted this and actually had megs growing decepticons, now this also plays into g1 mythos because megs was building decpticons and nearly wipped out all the female formers what i have gathered from all the storylines and from the guide books is that unlike organics formers reproduce by combining data and parts of their sparks and a proto form is actually given birth by using parts from both formers and then made into a proto form (marvel, dreamwave, and the g1 cartoon series all had mingled versions, the newer books having arcee as being a autobot with a sex change is just kinda creepy)

 

and with the whole nemisis thing, it wasn't crashed it just looked really old, just because it had holes or open parts to the ship didn't mean it was a wreck, the formers don't need air so no lifesupport needed ya know, and the fallen as well as the army was most likely brought to saturn by starscream since he has had to be up to something after all, and please no references to the prequal novel if you go by that all the toys that weren't in the first movie, a russian stereotype, and a busty japanese techie who longarm has a thing for are running around in the base durring the movie but are never actually shown

 

 

As Werefox said, Transformers are not "just" machines. They're living organisms. As Optimus said in the first movie, "We are autonomous robotic organisms from the planet Cybertron." Transformers have DNA, their bodies are made up of self-replicating nano-machine cells. As the Production designer said in the Special Features disk, "Every molecule, every cell, is a machine unto itself." Thus, it is very possible for them to bring forth offspring through cellular division and the the union of male and female. They are not like Earth machines. Nothing says they "have" to be built, or that they even are built.

In some other TF fictions as well, some Transformers had families—they had mothers and fathers, some even were mothers and fathers of small child Transformers. Even in the movie, Jetfire mentions having a mom and dad.

 

Also, as for your question about them all being manufactured and then given life by the cube, no that is not how it worked. Even Roberto Orci was very clear on that fact. According to Orci, and even hinted at by Prime in the movie itself, The Allspark is meant to allow a planet to bring forth and sustain life. The cube was never intended to be used directly on non-living machines to bring them to life. That is why any machine brought directly to life by the Allspark ( or a fragment thereof) was a mindless monster.

 

As for the "timeline issues", The Fallen and the other Original Primes, went to Earth almost twenty thousand years ago. Megatron crashed on Earth looking for the Allspark only ten thousand years ago. In the movie-verse, the war hasn't been going on for millions of years, but only thousands of years.

Jesus Christ, Tramp, don't start his shit again. Everyone knows your opinion on how robots make babies, and no-one cares. Everytime someone stats "Transformers are machines, they don't make babies", it's not time for another thousand word Tramp essay proving nothing except for the fact that you totally need a life.

 

No-one buys the "Robosex" argument, so deal with it.

Jesus Christ, Tramp, don't start his shit again. Everyone knows your opinion on how robots make babies, and no-one cares. Everytime someone stats "Transformers are machines, they don't make babies", it's not time for another thousand word Tramp essay proving nothing except for the fact that you totally need a life.

 

No-one buys the "Robosex" argument, so deal with it.

 

Robosex argument? I gotta hear this one!!!

Jesus Christ, Tramp, don't start his shit again. Everyone knows your opinion on how robots make babies, and no-one cares. Everytime someone stats "Transformers are machines, they don't make babies", it's not time for another thousand word Tramp essay proving nothing except for the fact that you totally need a life.

 

No-one buys the "Robosex" argument, so deal with it.

 

Robosex argument? I gotta hear this one!!!

 

:win :win

 

Alright i can see there is ignorance on this website, so i'll state it again, no transformers do not have sex they share a segement of their sparks and code, and create a protoform that then is given life by the combined spark, it covered this in the marvel Generation 2 era as well as G1 after the movie

Actually, no, it didn't. Marvel had Transformers being completely asexual with no females whatsoever. The cartoon never got into reproduction at all, but it did show examples of Transformer children and families, as did the manga version of Victory. Also, if they were simply building a protoform, there would be no need for the new creation to be a helpless child. Whether or not they copulate is moot, there is some method of transferring the genetic data and Spark fragment though. What it entails is anyone's guess and not something that really needs addressing IMO. The movie shows the hatchlings emerging from what look like soft-bodied eggs, that suggests that movie Transformer females lay eggs.

Actually, no, it didn't. Marvel had Transformers being completely asexual with no females whatsoever. The cartoon never got into reproduction at all, but it did show examples of Transformer children and families, as did the manga version of Victory. Also, if they were simply building a protoform, there would be no need for the new creation to be a helpless child. Whether or not they copulate is moot, there is some method of transferring the genetic data and Spark fragment though. What it entails is anyone's guess and not something that really needs addressing IMO. The movie shows the hatchlings emerging from what look like soft-bodied eggs, that suggests that movie Transformer females lay eggs.

 

Why does it suggest that a female lays eggs? When they went to see the Fallen, was there any females there??

 

Further, given the alien-esque stealings Bay has done - doesn't it more so suggest that maybe there is a 'queen' mentality - ie, 'the fallen' created the hatchling aspects to create/make new transformers?

 

Personally, I don't like this entire aspect of the story line, when it comes to the movies. There is 'so much' to write about without even creating additional conflicts and explainations. I don't see how this added anything to the movie at all, and could have been completely edited out without taking anything away from the movie - except additional contradictions and unexplained issues.

I think the whole idea of how Transformers pro create should be left as a mystery. As people say for horror movies, less is more.

Actually, no, it didn't. Marvel had Transformers being completely asexual with no females whatsoever. The cartoon never got into reproduction at all, but it did show examples of Transformer children and families, as did the manga version of Victory. Also, if they were simply building a protoform, there would be no need for the new creation to be a helpless child. Whether or not they copulate is moot, there is some method of transferring the genetic data and Spark fragment though. What it entails is anyone's guess and not something that really needs addressing IMO. The movie shows the hatchlings emerging from what look like soft-bodied eggs, that suggests that movie Transformer females lay eggs.

 

Why does it suggest that a female lays eggs? When they went to see the Fallen, was there any females there??

 

Further, given the alien-esque stealings Bay has done - doesn't it more so suggest that maybe there is a 'queen' mentality - ie, 'the fallen' created the hatchling aspects to create/make new transformers?

 

Personally, I don't like this entire aspect of the story line, when it comes to the movies. There is 'so much' to write about without even creating additional conflicts and explainations. I don't see how this added anything to the movie at all, and could have been completely edited out without taking anything away from the movie - except additional contradictions and unexplained issues.

We don't see the Decepticon females there, no, but there are a number of hints and mentions. First, we do have female transformers present in the movie, and also, Jetfire also talks about his own mother and father (though how seriously you take his remarks is up to you), which once again supports some form of procreation involving male and female. The eggs in the Nemesis shows New transformer hatchlings born from eggs in a creche which suggests that at least currently, the offspring are raised communally among the Decepticon forces.

Tramp, what part of shut up, no-one cares do you not get? When people say "Transformers don't have sex and make babies", that isn't a statement of opinion, it's a statement of FACT. Nowhere in Canon does it pointblank state Transformers make babies. The only time it's ever mentioned is in those crackpot little theories that you keep forcing down everyone's thraots that have been rubbished by absolutely everyone, including Transformers Authority Chris McFeely, who knows a damn lot more about Transformers than you do.

Tramp, what part of shut up, no-one cares do you not get? When people say "Transformers don't have sex and make babies", that isn't a statement of opinion, it's a statement of FACT. Nowhere in Canon does it pointblank state Transformers make babies. The only time it's ever mentioned is in those crackpot little theories that you keep forcing down everyone's thraots that have been rubbished by absolutely everyone, including Transformers Authority Chris McFeely, who knows a damn lot more about Transformers than you do.

Except that we see Transformer babies in canon. We see them in the last issue of Victory, we see them in the original movie, and we even see some hatching in RotF. If you don't like what I have to say don't read my posts. And, for then recod Damolisher, you don't know that Transformers can't procreate. There is numerous pieces of evidence which supports it and nothing in canon says flat out that they can't. It's been purposely left vague.