I like the Bayverse comics and the toy bios for further fleshing out the characters. The bios aren't perfect, but they're fun. For example, I love the description of the twins on their toys and wish they would have been portrayed more like that in the movie...

Bringing up the bios is a perfect opportunity to point out what I view as the disconnect of Paramount & Bay with Hasbro. If the filmmakers would have worked closer with the toy makers, I think this film would have been drastically different. Those bios on the back of each box are so personal and insightful...that's what I really hoped to see within the film from each character. I'm quite aware that there is a limited amount of time to fit all of this within the confines of a movie, but to disregard some (or in some cases, most) of these characteristics, breaks down any real sense of character development within the robots for which the film is named after.

No, it doesn't since the specific transformers who were actually important characters to the story itself did get character development. Just because those characters weren't the particular characters certain fans wanted to get developed is irrelevant. The main cast of Transformers on both sides did get developed. They included Optimus prime, Bumblebee, Skids, Mudflap, Jetfire, Wheelie, The Fallen, Megatron, and Starscream. Sideswipe, Arcee and her sisters, Ironhide, Ratchet, Devastator, they got some development, but not much. The rest of them were all extras. You can only give character developemtn to so many characters, and that has to be reserved for the most importan ones, and the individual Constructicons were not that important to the story to warrant character development. Devastator warranted some, but the individual Constructicons didn't warrant any. They were just cannon fodder. They were there to form Devastator and fill out the ranks of Decepticons.

^ No need to disagree, you're making my point! The fact that they were turned into Decepticlones in Bayverse was precisely why they didn't add anything to the story, besides forming Devastator...and that was rather anticlimactic. The Constructicons alone outnumbered the Autobots b/c they were seemingly made primarily for cannon fodder by the Bay Team. I'm simply stating I believe that was a weak call. Their unique designs scream for individuality, but were not provided with such.

I wouldn't call Construction vehicles "unique" designs. They're utilitarian, and thus well suited for their primary tasks, they're also ubiquitous, which helped them blend in. Construction machines are everywhere. It makes perfect sense that there would be multiple Decepticons taking on these types of modes, particularly if they want to blend in and search for a buried artifact. Long Haul is a Materials transporter. There's nothing special about that. He's a Go-for. What's so special about that? While, in the context of G1, they were unique, and had "unique" designs, It doesn't work for this type of story. They were not important enough individually.

I like the Bayverse comics and the toy bios for further fleshing out the characters. The bios aren't perfect, but they're fun. For example, I love the description of the twins on their toys and wish they would have been portrayed more like that in the movie...

Bringing up the bios is a perfect opportunity to point out what I view as the disconnect of Paramount & Bay with Hasbro. If the filmmakers would have worked closer with the toy makers, I think this film would have been drastically different. Those bios on the back of each box are so personal and insightful...that's what I really hoped to see within the film from each character. I'm quite aware that there is a limited amount of time to fit all of this within the confines of a movie, but to disregard some (or in some cases, most) of these characteristics, breaks down any real sense of character development within the robots for which the film is named after.

No, it doesn't since the specific transformers who were actually important characters to the story itself did get character development. Just because those characters weren't the particular characters certain fans wanted to get developed is irrelevant. The main cast of Transformers on both sides did get developed. They included Optimus prime, Bumblebee, Skids, Mudflap, Jetfire, Wheelie, The Fallen, Megatron, and Starscream. Sideswipe, Arcee and her sisters, Ironhide, Ratchet, Devastator, they got some development, but not much. The rest of them were all extras. You can only give character developemtn to so many characters, and that has to be reserved for the most importan ones, and the individual Constructicons were not that important to the story to warrant character development. Devastator warranted some, but the individual Constructicons didn't warrant any. They were just cannon fodder. They were there to form Devastator and fill out the ranks of Decepticons.

You're just really wanting to disagree with me tonight, aren't you?! ;) I don't wanna say you're overreaching, but the way I saw it...the only real character development that occurred was with Optimus & Bumblebee for the Autobots, and Megatron & Starscream for the Decepticons. I think attempts were made with regards to some of these other characters that you've mentioned, but were ultimately unfulfilled. :shrug

 

^ No need to disagree, you're making my point! The fact that they were turned into Decepticlones in Bayverse was precisely why they didn't add anything to the story, besides forming Devastator...and that was rather anticlimactic. The Constructicons alone outnumbered the Autobots b/c they were seemingly made primarily for cannon fodder by the Bay Team. I'm simply stating I believe that was a weak call. Their unique designs scream for individuality, but were not provided with such.

I wouldn't call Construction vehicles "unique" designs. They're utilitarian, and thus well suited for their primary tasks, they're also ubiquitous, which helped them blend in. Construction machines are everywhere. It makes perfect sense that there would be multiple Decepticons taking on these types of modes, particularly if they want to blend in and search for a buried artifact. Long Haul is a Materials transporter. There's nothing special about that. He's a Go-for. What's so special about that? While, in the context of G1, they were unique, and had "unique" designs, It doesn't work for this type of story. They were not important enough individually.

Look beyond their mere vehicle modes, and you'll see some of the more dynamic robot designs that have been introduced into the movie universe.

I like the Bayverse comics and the toy bios for further fleshing out the characters. The bios aren't perfect, but they're fun. For example, I love the description of the twins on their toys and wish they would have been portrayed more like that in the movie...

Bringing up the bios is a perfect opportunity to point out what I view as the disconnect of Paramount & Bay with Hasbro. If the filmmakers would have worked closer with the toy makers, I think this film would have been drastically different. Those bios on the back of each box are so personal and insightful...that's what I really hoped to see within the film from each character. I'm quite aware that there is a limited amount of time to fit all of this within the confines of a movie, but to disregard some (or in some cases, most) of these characteristics, breaks down any real sense of character development within the robots for which the film is named after.

No, it doesn't since the specific transformers who were actually important characters to the story itself did get character development. Just because those characters weren't the particular characters certain fans wanted to get developed is irrelevant. The main cast of Transformers on both sides did get developed. They included Optimus prime, Bumblebee, Skids, Mudflap, Jetfire, Wheelie, The Fallen, Megatron, and Starscream. Sideswipe, Arcee and her sisters, Ironhide, Ratchet, Devastator, they got some development, but not much. The rest of them were all extras. You can only give character developemtn to so many characters, and that has to be reserved for the most importan ones, and the individual Constructicons were not that important to the story to warrant character development. Devastator warranted some, but the individual Constructicons didn't warrant any. They were just cannon fodder. They were there to form Devastator and fill out the ranks of Decepticons.

You're just really wanting to disagree with me tonight, aren't you?! ;) I don't wanna say you're overreaching, but the way I saw it...the only real character development that occurred was with Optimus & Bumblebee for the Autobots, and Megatron & Starscream for the Decepticons. I think attempts were made with regards to some of these other characters that you've mentioned, but were ultimately unfulfilled. :shrug

The first group I mentioned did get quite a bit of character development because they were important to the story. They were eithe main characters, or primary supporting characters. The second group—Sideswipe, Arcee and her sisters, Ironhide, Ratchet, Devastator—were secondary supporting characters with minimal character development. Jolt, the Constructicons, they were not major characters or even minor supporting characters. Thus, no character development.

 

^ No need to disagree, you're making my point! The fact that they were turned into Decepticlones in Bayverse was precisely why they didn't add anything to the story, besides forming Devastator...and that was rather anticlimactic. The Constructicons alone outnumbered the Autobots b/c they were seemingly made primarily for cannon fodder by the Bay Team. I'm simply stating I believe that was a weak call. Their unique designs scream for individuality, but were not provided with such.

I wouldn't call Construction vehicles "unique" designs. They're utilitarian, and thus well suited for their primary tasks, they're also ubiquitous, which helped them blend in. Construction machines are everywhere. It makes perfect sense that there would be multiple Decepticons taking on these types of modes, particularly if they want to blend in and search for a buried artifact. Long Haul is a Materials transporter. There's nothing special about that. He's a Go-for. What's so special about that? While, in the context of G1, they were unique, and had "unique" designs, It doesn't work for this type of story. They were not important enough individually.

Look beyond their mere vehicle modes, and you'll see some of the more dynamic robot designs that have been introduced into the movie universe.

Interesting and dynamic robot design does not equate to needed character development. What does is how important that character's role is to the story. All they do is provide a greater variety in the population of characters. Their role in the story is what makes them important. Look at the role the Constructicons played individually: One is killed by Prime right off the get-go delivering the cryptic warning about The Fallen's return, they helped resurrect Megatron (requiring one to be sacrificed to do it while otherwise mainly acting as diggers and then sentries while The Doctor did the actual work), and they formed Devastator in order to rip off the top of the Pyramid. Neither their vehicle modes nor robot modes make them important, they were simply utilitarian.

Interesting and dynamic robot design does not equate to needed character development. What does is how important that character's role is to the story. All they do is provide a greater variety in the population of characters. Their role in the story is what makes them important. Look at the role the Constructicons played individually: One is killed by Prime right off the get-go delivering the cryptic warning about The Fallen's return, they helped resurrect Megatron (requiring one to be sacrificed to do it while otherwise mainly acting as diggers and then sentries while The Doctor did the actual work), and they formed Devastator in order to rip off the top of the Pyramid. Neither their vehicle modes nor robot modes make them important, they were simply utilitarian.

Tramp, am I speaking Greek here? I'm not arguing with you...I don't disagree with the premise of what they were made into for the movie. I take issue with the potential that they could have been utilized for. This was the first live-action adaptation of the freakin' CONSTRUCTICONS! That means something to me as a life-time Transformer fan. Feel free to use the derogatory "Geewun-er" or whatnot, but I don't think the CONSTRUCTICONS are just any old team that should be made into useless clones. This was the first ever gestalt team to be created in TF lore. I can handle changing designs, colors, etc...but what bothers me is that the CONSTRUCTICONS are not treated as anything special. I abhor that rationale...they are special! And DEVASTATOR is an icon that should be used for something more than ripping the top off of a pyramid.

 

Now feel free to banter on about my preconceived notions of what these characters should have been, and how I shouldn't be relating this to G1, yada yada yada... :roll

Interesting and dynamic robot design does not equate to needed character development. What does is how important that character's role is to the story. All they do is provide a greater variety in the population of characters. Their role in the story is what makes them important. Look at the role the Constructicons played individually: One is killed by Prime right off the get-go delivering the cryptic warning about The Fallen's return, they helped resurrect Megatron (requiring one to be sacrificed to do it while otherwise mainly acting as diggers and then sentries while The Doctor did the actual work), and they formed Devastator in order to rip off the top of the Pyramid. Neither their vehicle modes nor robot modes make them important, they were simply utilitarian.

Tramp, am I speaking Greek here? I'm not arguing with you...I don't disagree with the premise of what they were made into for the movie. I take issue with the potential that they could have been utilized for. This was the first live-action adaptation of the freakin' CONSTRUCTICONS! That means something to me as a life-time Transformer fan. Feel free to use the derogatory "Geewun-er" or whatnot, but I don't think the CONSTRUCTICONS are just any old team that should be made into useless clones. This was the first ever gestalt team to be created in TF lore. I can handle changing designs, colors, etc...but what bothers me is that the CONSTRUCTICONS are not treated as anything special. I abhor that rationale...they are special! And DEVASTATOR is an icon that should be used for something more than ripping the top off of a pyramid.

 

Now feel free to banter on about my preconceived notions of what these characters should have been, and how I shouldn't be relating this to G1, yada yada yada... :roll

So, what you're saying is personal preferences should come before the story? Just because Bay didn't choose to focus on your personal favorites, doesn't make his decision a bad move. They served their purpose for the story, and really the only purpose they really could serve. Even in G1, their only real purpose was to build stuff for Megatron and form Devastator. They very rarely got any limelight. It's not a matter of it not being "G1", it's a matter of what best fits the story, and developing the Constructicons individually didn't fit the story. I agree with the writers' decision.

Interesting and dynamic robot design does not equate to needed character development. What does is how important that character's role is to the story. All they do is provide a greater variety in the population of characters. Their role in the story is what makes them important. Look at the role the Constructicons played individually: One is killed by Prime right off the get-go delivering the cryptic warning about The Fallen's return, they helped resurrect Megatron (requiring one to be sacrificed to do it while otherwise mainly acting as diggers and then sentries while The Doctor did the actual work), and they formed Devastator in order to rip off the top of the Pyramid. Neither their vehicle modes nor robot modes make them important, they were simply utilitarian.

Tramp, am I speaking Greek here? I'm not arguing with you...I don't disagree with the premise of what they were made into for the movie. I take issue with the potential that they could have been utilized for. This was the first live-action adaptation of the freakin' CONSTRUCTICONS! That means something to me as a life-time Transformer fan. Feel free to use the derogatory "Geewun-er" or whatnot, but I don't think the CONSTRUCTICONS are just any old team that should be made into useless clones. This was the first ever gestalt team to be created in TF lore. I can handle changing designs, colors, etc...but what bothers me is that the CONSTRUCTICONS are not treated as anything special. I abhor that rationale...they are special! And DEVASTATOR is an icon that should be used for something more than ripping the top off of a pyramid.

 

Now feel free to banter on about my preconceived notions of what these characters should have been, and how I shouldn't be relating this to G1, yada yada yada... :roll

So, what you're saying is personal preferences should come before the story? Just because Bay didn't choose to focus on your personal favorites, doesn't make his decision a bad move. They served their purpose for the story, and really the only purpose they really could serve. Even in G1, their only real purpose was to build stuff for Megatron and form Devastator. They very rarely got any limelight. It's not a matter of it not being "G1", it's a matter of what best fits the story, and developing the Constructicons individually didn't fit the story. I agree with the writers' decision.

Not exactly...not sure that we took away the same experience from G1...and I disagree with the writer's decision(s). Missed opportunities.

 

Pretty much, I'll just agree to disagree and call it a night...thanks for the lively discussion though. :beer

I'm going to go with nortagem - Devastator is the biggest, baddest warrior the Decepticons have available to them. He is, by virtue of this, a primary candidate for the position of first or second string billing as antagonist during the film's climax.

 

In order for Devastator to serve as an interesting antagonist however, he needs demonstrable character. What is his motivation? Why is he at odds with the Autobots? What elevates the struggle of the two beyond the mere confines of good versus bad?

 

Now of course, Devastator is a bit of an odd entity in the sense that he's actually composed of a group of smaller characters. This simply means that whatever actions take place to reinforce his role as a later antagonist generally would involve his constituent parts, and not Devastator directly. It's not a huge stumbling block.

 

Unfortunately, what we got is a a series of Constructicons that seem to have some potential as individual antagonists (Demolishor rampaging through Shanghai, Rampage going tail to toe with Bumblebee, Mixmaster taking on Jetfire) but the way it's handled means that when Devastator finally appears, there isn't a whole lot of audience investment. Who is this guy? Eh, he's the generic monster.

 

And then, of course, the biggest, baddest Decepticon shown in movie history is rather predictably annihilated by the superior firepower of the US military who are, at this time, planning to shoot the Nemesis down with a SABOT round.

 

It's basically sub-par storytelling. I will also say that most of the blame on this one probably lies with Orci and Kurtzman, who have shown a weakness in writing compelling antagonists. (Compare and contrast their most recent creations: Megatron from the first film, The Fallen and Devastator from the second film, and Nero from Star Trek.)

 

On a completely different subject: I would say that Revenge of the Fallen is not a war film. It pretends to be a war film, and conveys a war happening between two equally matched forces, but in reality it's an alien invasion film where, whoever wins, the US military will still blow them up. (And obviously there are other things in there too, such as the teen dramady and so on.)

I'd like to comment on what JOP Said a minute ago about Orci/Kurtzman's "Sub-Par Villain storytelling". Namely: I agree.

 

In the first movie, instead of being a compelling "Magneto-esque" villain (as they claimed he would be); Megatron showed only a little of his personality before falling victim to "Final Boss Monster" syndrome, and the Heroic US Military saves Optimus Prime by shooting Megatron in the butt with missiles.

 

And then in ROTF, Megatron becomes a rip-off of Darth Vader; and the Heroic US Military saves the pyramid from Devastator by shooting him in the butt with a "Rail Gun".

 

What's next? Megatron terrorizes the Gotham City, telling everyone how his father was "a drinker and a fiend" and asking them why they're all "so SERIOUS?"

 

...and the Heroic US Military saves the world from Unicron by shooting him... in the butt... with a nuke. :wtf

 

Oh! one more thing...

...

There! You only added what, a minute? Maybe 2 tops? And suddenly the Constructicons are characters. I rest my case. :thumb

Good post!

Not even a minute. They could have added a lot of dialog while the TFs are in their alt modes. Then they wouldn't have to mess with extra CGI! For example, while they're showing each of the Constructicons like they already did in the movie, they could have done it just a little differently and add a conversation just like you mentioned.

Hey, thanks! :yay

If I may chime in on this "mysterious victim" Constructicon who was killed for parts underwater...

 

Everyone seems to forget the vehicles seen on the cargo ship. The one who was killed was NOT part of Devastator...Or he could be the "left hand" some say isn't part of Hightower.

 

But my point is that apparently nobody saw that one of the vehicles on the ship was a small Volvo Excavator. Yet the camera was on it for quite a bit. Enough to clearly see the "VOLVO" on its black digging arm. THIS was the one who got killed. The excavator was yellow with a black arm and the one who got killed also appeared to be yellow. And he fits the description of there being treads on him too.

 

He just never got a name I guess. But he's definitely that excavator. A much smaller one than Scavenger and Demolishor were.