those links gave me a thought

 

munky should've had the name "Hellscream". since he's a brutal viscous beast who kinda acts like Starscream. another miss by the writers.....

 

*cough* middleamericachristianmoviegoers *cough*

Hi.*

 

 

 

 

*(Waits for mods and Bhey Boys to decry comment as Trolling and Flamebait.)

those links gave me a thought

 

munky should've had the name "Hellscream". since I can't stand that other people get to enjoy a Starscream that I don't like, even though lots of people don't enjoy the Starscream I do like because tradition makes me feel justified in acting like my preferences are more important than other peoples.

Fixed.

 

*Gladly welcomes Prime Collector to the thread*

On a less "I'm sick of feeling censored" note, I do think it's really laughable to have any story based on movie Starscream's 2 lines in the movie. Especialy in a time when the so called writers of the movie franchise are in no position to confirm storyline.

@ ItsStarscream – I agree with the vast majority of the points you have raised in this thread and I congratulate you on how well you have debated them. Bay remains in my opinion a cinamatic pornographer, prefering to offer his audience visual ‘money shots’ at the expense of characterisation and story telling. TF was lowest common denomanator filmaking and after taking away the awe of seeing giant robots transforming and fighting on the cinema screen, we are left with an empty shell of a movie - ‘all style and no knickers’.

 

Thank you. Nice to see I am not the only one that saw how empty in substance that movie truly was.

 

We part company on the TF designs, which I thought, faces aside, were fairly well realised – if inpractical for warrior robots. I’m hoping the forthcoming comic can put flesh on the bones of Stacream’s under-developed character, atoning for Bay’s short comings as a storyteller.

 

Fair enough that we disagree on the designs. It is not that I simply don't care for the designs. On their own they are just fine. Its when I am told these designs are for these characters that I balk on it. There was no consistency in anyones redesign in the slightest. We all could recognize Prime and BB by his color but the rest all needed Q cards to me. It took watching it a second time around to figure out it was Ratchet that fell into the powerlines. And as blurry and close up as the action was in the fighting scenes I still can't figure who was doing what.

 

As for that F22's character? I saw nothing at all Starscream about it -- I just didn't. Nothing in its demeanor and certainly nothing in its looks indicated it was the Air Commander. Sure wings on the back and a canopy on the chest says its Starscream? This is always the answer I hear and as I said before that also describes a good list of other TFs as well ;)

 

Bay has a lot more short-comings other then writer. He has no grasp of anything he attempts to 'fix'. He didn't care for the subject matter and it shows everywhere in this film. He was banking on the name and his name and lucky for him it paid off. But will it continue its misguided fortune in the next one? And if Soundwave truly gets a G1 nod in his redux how do you think that will rest with the Megatron and Starscream fans the second time around? This movie did nothing but split the fandom even more in many ways but thats a whole other subject.

 

The Decepticons look insectoid and whatnot was done to make them look more alien and evil looking. In that sense, it worked quite well.

 

But Autobots are aliens too. Why weren't they given the same treatment? Decepticons are the more popular faction. Why were they shortsheeted so badly? (Or is that Baysheeted). I don't need my intelligence pandered down to with such redundant visual ques on whos the bad guy and whos the good guy. I prefer some substance to the plot and characters and the sophistication of intricate visual development over what we got instead. It was an insult to anyone looking for even a fraction more then just mindless violence.

 

As for Bay not hearing about Starscream... It certainly is possible. Nowhere near as much Starscreaming about that happened compared to BB not being a VW, etc. a lot of Starscreaming, sure, but not enough.

 

Where have you been????? The BB not a bug thing died as fast as it arose but the SS thing is STILL going on. Bay even stated in an interview that he realized he screwed up with that character but it was too late to redesign him. See right there...had we had someone who KNEW the subject matter a LOT more fans would be happy and it would have made EVEN MORE money then it did and it already cleaned house there I will grant. Since when is Transformers only Optimus Prime? Who is the character that always beats Prime in popular vote polls? STARSCREAM. Who are the TFs that are always in the top 5? OP, SS, MEGATRON, SOUNDWAVE, Grimlock. If Bay knew this would we really have seen a munky and a blender as Starscream and Megatron? No. I think we would have gotten a redux along the lines that we got with Prime. Sure its not perfect but its a true art masterpiece compared to what was cranked out of Bays head for SS and Megatron, thats for sure.

 

they didnt need to look that way in ANY of the cartoons, yet it was very easy to tell they were evil

 

Agreed! Some credit was given to the viewers intelligence. We didn't need to be pandered to like Bay did for everyone in this /movie/. And that was half the fun of it. Bad guys and good guys that visually are so similar. It was very entertaining.

 

they didnt need to look that way in ANY of the cartoons, yet it was very easy to tell they were evil

In the cartoon they were modeled after pre-existing toys which had been pieced together from different lines. Many of the 'Con figures (like Soundwave and Megatron) were good guys in the line they were taken from. The rest (like Starscream) were soulless piloted mechs. Of course they wouldn't look evil based on that.

 

True, but what is so wrong with that? Do you really want things to be that black and white visually for you? reality isn't like that you know....

 

But it makes perfect sense that they would make them evil if they were designing them anew, as previous Transformers lines have shown us...or do you think it's a coincidence that Hasbro made all the insects and reptiles villains and the mammals and birds heroes in Beast Wars?

 

For everything* Michael Bay did to the Transformers, there's a precedent of it happening somewhere else in the franchise first, and no one complained about it then. But suddenly Michael Bay's name is on it and it's all, "You can't do that! It's not Transformers!"

 

What precedent was laid before? You know, if you take a head shot of every Optimus Prime from every reboot cannon wise and line them up there is a chilling similarity in every design. Now take a head shot of every Starscream and line them up and tell me how that freak bug face looks anything like the other faces? sure Transformers is always retold and redone but there is always some sort of consistency in each retelling. Bay threw the baby out with the bathwater in his uneducated [about Transformers] egotistical mania about recreating it.... So yea, it is all his fault but the bigger fault in all this lies with Hasbro for actually giving someone who knows nothing about Transformers that much power over its recreation. One would think they would have learned their lesson after Skir and the BM fiasco and with Lee and Dreamwave.... :tdown

You know, if you take a head shot of every Optimus Prime from every reboot cannon wise and line them up there is a chilling similarity in every design.

You're right. Absolutely chilling.

 

Obviously, Prime is THE trademark in the franchise. It'd be silly for Bay to mess with his design too much in a project as high profile as this (although they did consider it and worked many less Prime designs). But everything should be open to reinterpretation once in a while, even Prime.

 

In this case, it happened to be Starscream. We know you're not happy about it, but quit acting like it's the end of the world. For Christ's sake, you've got a warm meal in your tummy while some kids in this world are going to bed without having eaten in days. Try a little perspective on for size.

The Decepticons look insectoid and whatnot was done to make them look more alien and evil looking. In that sense, it worked quite well.

 

But Autobots are aliens too. Why weren't they given the same treatment? Decepticons are the more popular faction. Why were they shortsheeted so badly? (Or is that Baysheeted). I don't need my intelligence pandered down to with such redundant visual ques on whos the bad guy and whos the good guy. I prefer some substance to the plot and characters and the sophistication of intricate visual development over what we got instead. It was an insult to anyone looking for even a fraction more then just mindless violence.

 

1. Decepticons being the most popular faction is Powerglideing nonsense. There is no most popular faction, and if there was one, it'd probably be the Autobots or Maximals, as good guys are always more popular among kids.

 

2. They were supposed to be scary looking. WTF is scary looking about G1 Starscream?

 

3. I also prefer substance in plot over mindless violence, but you forget one thing: most of the movie is plot! Most of the movie is spent on character development and talking! It's one thing to argue if they executed it properly or not(I would say no, especially with regard to any TF other than Optimus and Bumblebee.), but entirely another to not see their existence!

I think the overall rating of the robot designs in this movie was 90% weak. ILM did a fantastic job of animating and making look nifty and real these WEAK designs. I can separate the possibly Oscar winning computer animation of these boring and lackluster designs from the piss poor misunderstanding production team that allowed them to pollute the screen.

 

The lack of effort that is betrayed by these poor iterations is betrayed by the simple fact that this could have been the GO-BOT Movie for all the similarity it had to its premise.

 

"It's giant robots hitting each other, dude. Get over it."

 

Say that excuse all you want, but Go-Bots and Robo Force were the same thing. Transformers is a successful franchise. Those two are foot notes. Despite being this magical "Giant Robots Hitting each other" that everyone is raving about.

I think the overall rating of the robot designs in this movie was 90% weak. ILM did a fantastic job of animating and making look nifty and real these WEAK designs. I can separate the possibly Oscar winning computer animation of these boring and lackluster designs from the piss poor misunderstanding production team that allowed them to pollute the screen.

 

The lack of effort that is betrayed by these poor iterations is betrayed by the simple fact that this could have been the GO-BOT Movie for all the similarity it had to its premise.

 

"It's giant robots hitting each other, dude. Get over it."

 

Say that excuse all you want, but Go-Bots and Robo Force were the same thing. Transformers is a successful franchise. Those two are foot notes. Despite being this magical "Giant Robots Hitting each other" that everyone is raving about.

Quit trolling. :tfevil :tftongue

 

This may not be for this thread (although this thread is already doomed) but weren't you all for the designs before you saw the movie, or am I mistaken? Has your hatred of the final product as a piece of storytelling eaten away at your love of the cool robots on display in said story?

No, I never liked these designs. Flames on Prime? Bug heads (cuz bugs are from space)?

 

I gave a "wait and see" to the movie based solely on the premise that if the ROBOT dialog was worthy the movie could be good DESPITE the lacking designs. I was rewarded with "What's crackin' li'l bithches?".