Sam: "hey optimus, i just found this reel to reel tape player out here in the desert all by itself."

Bumblebee: and i found an old phonagraph player - and it still has 45s on it (i was gonna type 72's but you guys wouldnt get it)

Prime: never mind that you two Look what i have! Its a tape deck.

 

 

 

Sam (Tied up): the decepticons tricked us into bringing them into the autobot hide out? agian? Damn their desguises are too cunning! now how will we ever escape??!?! :eek

Actually, according to Don Murphy, he said that they didn't want mass shifting in the first movie. That is because they felt that there was enough that would need to be explained, as it was. This is why Soundwave isn't in the first movie. They are saving him for the second so he can be "done right". In other words, we can expect to see mass shifting in the sequels, just not the first movie.

 

Tramp - are you mental? (it's a joke - calm down tiger)

 

But seriously - That DOES NOT, I REPEAT NOT mean it will be in the sequels at all. All that means is that Soundwave's name was dropped twice from two different Movie Bots - Blackout & Frenzy - mainly because of fan-Starscreaming and the writers feelign that Soundwave wasn't being handled right. Don Murphy might have said first movie, but he never once mentioned it would be in the sequels, not one single time, ever.

 

All that statement was, is a way to help crowd-control the fanboys on Soundwave and his possible use later in a sequel. That is all.

Actually, yeah, he did, In the video of last year's TransformersCon, he said they were discussing moving Soundwave to the sequel, rather than having him in the fiorst movie, so they could do him right.

In other words, we can expect to see mass shifting in the sequels, just not the first movie.

 

Please, no. It's never made any sense to me, even as a kid. If they have that technology, why don't Frenzy and Rumble get as big as Soundwave? Why don't all the Decepticons ride around inside Soundwave? Why doesn't Trypticon use it to grow even larger? Why do bots like Astrotrain and Starscream actually use it to get smaller in robot mode?

 

Mass shifting = an animation cheat. It's not a story point, or a tradition or anything other than a blemish on the Transformers franchise, and I hope that this movie starts a long trend of robot size being proportionate to alt. mode size, i.e. no more Scout Class Hovercrafts or Deluxe Motorcycles.

Actually, according to Don Murphy, he said that they didn't want mass shifting in the first movie. That is because they felt that there was enough that would need to be explained, as it was. This is why Soundwave isn't in the first movie. They are saving him for the second so he can be "done right". In other words, we can expect to see mass shifting in the sequels, just not the first movie.

 

Tramp - are you mental? (it's a joke - calm down tiger)

 

But seriously - That DOES NOT, I REPEAT NOT mean it will be in the sequels at all. All that means is that Soundwave's name was dropped twice from two different Movie Bots - Blackout & Frenzy - mainly because of fan-Starscreaming and the writers feelign that Soundwave wasn't being handled right. Don Murphy might have said first movie, but he never once mentioned it would be in the sequels, not one single time, ever.

 

All that statement was, is a way to help crowd-control the fanboys on Soundwave and his possible use later in a sequel. That is all.

Actually, yeah, he did, In the video of last year's TransformersCon, he said they were discussing moving Soundwave to the sequel, rather than having him in the fiorst movie, so they could do him right.

I KNOW that- I meant Mass-shifting. NOT ONCE did Don Murphy say it would actually be in the sequels. Soundwave will probably almost 100% definitely being a sequel, but NOT Mass-Shifting.

 

In other words, we can expect to see mass shifting in the sequels, just not the first movie.

 

Please, no. It's never made any sense to me, even as a kid. If they have that technology, why don't Frenzy and Rumble get as big as Soundwave? Why don't all the Decepticons ride around inside Soundwave? Why doesn't Trypticon use it to grow even larger? Why do bots like Astrotrain and Starscream actually use it to get smaller in robot mode?

 

Mass shifting = an animation cheat. It's not a story point, or a tradition or anything other than a blemish on the Transformers franchise, and I hope that this movie starts a long trend of robot size being proportionate to alt. mode size, i.e. no more Scout Class Hovercrafts or Deluxe Motorcycles.

Damn Straight!

Second Sequel Idea:

Prime uses a beacon to call some more Autobots to Earth. Those New Autobots are:

Prowl - Prime's New Righthand/Second-in-Command.

Grimlock - Takes the more War-Prepped Autobots to a whole new level (as Ironhide is out initial intro to that idea).

Sunstreaker & Sideswipe - Autobot Warriors and introduces the "family" and "brother" aspect to movie franchise.

 

Starscream calls in Decepticon Reinforcements. He gets:

Shockwave - New Decepticon Leader, forcibly puts Starscream in his place as a subordinate.

Blitzwing - Triple-Changer.

Octane - Triple-Changer.

Soundwave - Stealth Bomber, very secretive and silent, but imposing.

Rumble - Similar to Frenzy, but definitely Soundwave's follower.

Laserbeak - Multiple Bird-Like Drones Soundwave releases.

Ravage - A beast-like TF in the vein of Scorponok, who has an animal-like robot mode. Loyal to Soundwave.

 

New Threat - The "Insecticons"!

 

Shockwave comes to Earth due to a distress signal by Starscream. Shockwave brings his Triple-Changers and Soundwave (and Soundwave's Minions). Soundwave has his own agenda in coming to Earth - to find Megatron. Shockwave and his Decepticons attack a city and draw the Autobots out. As the Autobots and Decepticons fight the Triple-Changers leave the Autobots stunned and a bit out-classed. Then Prowl and his Team arrive, to warn them all of the "Swarm". A massive group of locust-like robots that devour and eat every resource on a planet before moving on to the next planet. They are insect-like and very powerful due to their numbers. Starscream uses this to his advantage and tries to take out Prime while the battle is halted. Shockwave decides a steady retreat and regroup to prepare for the on-coming "Swarm". While Prime is recovering, Prowl and Ironhide inform Sam/Spike of who/what the "Swarm" are, and show him holograms of them. He calles them Insects (which could lead to the term Insecticons, depending on how it's handled). Shortly afterwards the "Swarm" hits Earth, destroying buildings and eating anything mechanical/metal. Prime and the Autobots go to fight this menace. Eventually Shockwave and his Decepticons contact Prime and the Autobots and make a small truce to rid Earth of the Insecticons. As the two groups work together, it's reported that the final Insecticon "queen" is coming to Earth - Shrapnel, a massive beetle-like beast with large lightning rods on it's back that absorb and charge electric energy. Shrapnel and what's left of the Insecticons battle the Autobots and Decepticons in a massive raging finale. It ends with Soundwave and his minions disappearance during the battle and the death of Octane and 1 Autobot (to be determined). Shockwave and his Decepticons leave to repair. As they do, Soundwave reappears with Megatron and Megatron crushes Shockwave and forces Blitzwing under his command.

So, I like this idea alot.

In other words, we can expect to see mass shifting in the sequels, just not the first movie.

 

Please, no. It's never made any sense to me, even as a kid. If they have that technology, why don't Frenzy and Rumble get as big as Soundwave? Why don't all the Decepticons ride around inside Soundwave? Why doesn't Trypticon use it to grow even larger? Why do bots like Astrotrain and Starscream actually use it to get smaller in robot mode?

 

Mass shifting = an animation cheat. It's not a story point, or a tradition or anything other than a blemish on the Transformers franchise, and I hope that this movie starts a long trend of robot size being proportionate to alt. mode size, i.e. no more Scout Class Hovercrafts or Deluxe Motorcycles.

Well first off, yes, it is a story point. Secondly, only certain Transformers even have the capability. According to the mythos, as stated in TF: More than Meets the Eye #8 on page 50, it is something encoded into the molecular structure of certain Cybertronians, and takes one of two forms, actual molecular mass shifting (mass conversion), and simple size shifting (Parts comression). In G1, Astrotrain utilized parts compression, Soundwave utilized mass conversion. The fact that it does require actual explaination for it to make any sense is the reson why they didn't use it in the first movie, and is what makes it a story point because the story and plot needs to show why these certain characters have this ability wnile others don't.

or, you know, the filmmakers could just choose not to be retarded.

 

 

or something.

or, you know, the filmmakers could just choose not to be retarded.

 

 

or something.

Agreed. ROFL!

 

In other words, we can expect to see mass shifting in the sequels, just not the first movie.

 

Please, no. It's never made any sense to me, even as a kid. If they have that technology, why don't Frenzy and Rumble get as big as Soundwave? Why don't all the Decepticons ride around inside Soundwave? Why doesn't Trypticon use it to grow even larger? Why do bots like Astrotrain and Starscream actually use it to get smaller in robot mode?

 

Mass shifting = an animation cheat. It's not a story point, or a tradition or anything other than a blemish on the Transformers franchise, and I hope that this movie starts a long trend of robot size being proportionate to alt. mode size, i.e. no more Scout Class Hovercrafts or Deluxe Motorcycles.

Well first off, yes, it is a story point. Secondly, only certain Transformers even have the capability. According to the mythos, as stated in TF: More than Meets the Eye #8 on page 50, it is something encoded into the molecular structure of certain Cybertronians, and takes one of two forms, actual molecular mass shifting (mass conversion), and simple size shifting (Parts comression). In G1, Astrotrain utilized parts compression, Soundwave utilized mass conversion. The fact that it does require actual explaination for it to make any sense is the reson why they didn't use it in the first movie, and is what makes it a story point because the story and plot needs to show why these certain characters have this ability wnile others don't.

You do realize that was for Dreamwave's universe only right? It was used in their MTMTE Profile books as a way to explain it. But it was never even thought about much in G1 - it was just done, cause that's what the toys were like. Hence that's the way they went with it. I think we should just leave the mass-shifting to G1, as much as I like Astrotrain, Blitzwing, and Soundwave.

In other words, we can expect to see mass shifting in the sequels, just not the first movie.

 

Please, no. It's never made any sense to me, even as a kid. If they have that technology, why don't Frenzy and Rumble get as big as Soundwave? Why don't all the Decepticons ride around inside Soundwave? Why doesn't Trypticon use it to grow even larger? Why do bots like Astrotrain and Starscream actually use it to get smaller in robot mode?

 

Mass shifting = an animation cheat. It's not a story point, or a tradition or anything other than a blemish on the Transformers franchise, and I hope that this movie starts a long trend of robot size being proportionate to alt. mode size, i.e. no more Scout Class Hovercrafts or Deluxe Motorcycles.

Well first off, yes, it is a story point. Secondly, only certain Transformers even have the capability. According to the mythos, as stated in TF: More than Meets the Eye #8 on page 50, it is something encoded into the molecular structure of certain Cybertronians, and takes one of two forms, actual molecular mass shifting (mass conversion), and simple size shifting (Parts comression). In G1, Astrotrain utilized parts compression, Soundwave utilized mass conversion. The fact that it does require actual explaination for it to make any sense is the reson why they didn't use it in the first movie, and is what makes it a story point because the story and plot needs to show why these certain characters have this ability wnile others don't.

 

That's not a story point. That's just retcon that's been blended into the the story to make up for the fact that the animation models used it to better match the proportions of the original brought-together-from-different-toylines toyline back in the 80s. There's a difference.

 

Let's just be rid of it. It doesn't add anything to the franchise but a headache. For the love of (Cuban) Pete, tape players are out of date anyway, and CDs turn into lousy jaguars, so why would it matter if Soundwave turned into something large anyway?

 

And let me ask you this: If Mass Shifting is integral to the franchise, how come no character from G1 beyond that initial first use of the Microman molds ever used it? Once they got to making original toys for G1, Hasbro decided to drop the giant-robots-that-turn-into-tiny-things notion themselves. They knew it was lame in the 80s!

In other words, we can expect to see mass shifting in the sequels, just not the first movie.

 

Please, no. It's never made any sense to me, even as a kid. If they have that technology, why don't Frenzy and Rumble get as big as Soundwave? Why don't all the Decepticons ride around inside Soundwave? Why doesn't Trypticon use it to grow even larger? Why do bots like Astrotrain and Starscream actually use it to get smaller in robot mode?

 

Mass shifting = an animation cheat. It's not a story point, or a tradition or anything other than a blemish on the Transformers franchise, and I hope that this movie starts a long trend of robot size being proportionate to alt. mode size, i.e. no more Scout Class Hovercrafts or Deluxe Motorcycles.

Well first off, yes, it is a story point. Secondly, only certain Transformers even have the capability. According to the mythos, as stated in TF: More than Meets the Eye #8 on page 50, it is something encoded into the molecular structure of certain Cybertronians, and takes one of two forms, actual molecular mass shifting (mass conversion), and simple size shifting (Parts comression). In G1, Astrotrain utilized parts compression, Soundwave utilized mass conversion. The fact that it does require actual explaination for it to make any sense is the reson why they didn't use it in the first movie, and is what makes it a story point because the story and plot needs to show why these certain characters have this ability wnile others don't.

 

That's not a story point. That's just retcon that's been blended into the the story to make up for the fact that the animation models used it to better match the proportions of the original brought-together-from-different-toylines toyline back in the 80s. There's a difference.

 

Let's just be rid of it. It doesn't add anything to the franchise but a headache. For the love of (Cuban) Pete, tape players are out of date anyway, and CDs turn into lousy jaguars, so why would it matter if Soundwave turned into something large anyway?

 

And let me ask you this: If Mass Shifting is integral to the franchise, how come no character from G1 beyond that initial first use of the Microman molds ever used it? Once they got to making original toys for G1, Hasbro decided to drop the giant-robots-that-turn-into-tiny-things notion themselves. They knew it was lame in the 80s!

Yes, tape players are out of date, but CD players are not, Stereo systems are not, MP3 players are not, nor are computers. It also isn't a retcon because we do have characters right from the beginning who were able to greatly change their size and mass. The definition of a Ret-Con (retroactive continuity) is a change made later to correct an error in continuity. Size and Mass shifting has always been a part of G1, not something added later to correct something. How it was achieved has only recently been explained, but not the process has always been there. Given the transformations of Soundwave, Blaster, Megatron, Astrotrain, Perceptor, and the cassettes, among a few others, mass or size shifting was necessary for their alt modes to make any sense. A giant tape deck, stereo, or microscope doesn't make for a very good disguise now, does it? A miniature space shuttle or locamotive don't make very good disguises nor are very practical are they? These kinds of modes need to be able to grow and shrink as necessary. That is the reason for Mass and size shifting. For Soundwave to be "done right" he needs to be some form of relatively small stereo or communications device, not a vehicle, yet still be a big robot. That is part of what makes Soundwave Soundwave. He doesn't have to be a tape deck. A modern analog is plenty suitable. However, mass shifting is an integral part of Soundwave. Therefore, since that is so integral to that character, they decided to save him for one of the sequels so that they could explain the reasons for his ability and thus, it would be a part of the plot because Soundwave would be a central character, as he has always been. There is just too much other stuff that needs to be covered in the first movie to devote to explaining why such and such character can change size. For most Transformers, size or mass shifting is totally unnecessary because they are vehicles: cars, trucks, aircraft, and their robot sizes already closely match their vehicle sizes. They're medium-to-large size vehicles who become medium-to-large size robots. None of them have Super-huge size alt modes, nor super small alt modes except for Frenzy, and his robot mode is also super small. Fenzy has always been small, so a small alt mode, and lack of mass shifting, is appropriate. They didn't need for him to mass shift, However, Soundwave has always been big in robot mode, but with a small alt mode. It wouldn't work for him to have a small (human sized or smaller) robot mode given his importance as an iconic character. He needs to be able to mass shift.

 

To answer your question about why it was not used since the initial Microman molds, it is because later series didn't have characters who needed it.All of the later series had every character transform into a vehicle (or animal) of some sort. None transformed into more mundane, though still useful, objects like stereos or microscopes. Thus, mass shifting was unnecessary in most cases. However, if you look at Cybertron the Minicons, Jolt, Reverb, and Six shot do size shift to a degree. Their alt modes are large enough to allow for humans to sit inside their cockpits, yet, when they are in robot mode, they are not much more than a foot or two taller than the average adult Human man. Without some size shifting ability, there is no way they could fit someone in their cockpits.