The downfall was not Hot Rod OR Galvatron.

 

The downfall was the simple fact that they killed off fan favorites (Ironhide, Prowl, Brawn, etc), and replaced them with characters who were exxagerated caricatures. Bumblebee may not have been killed off, but he was obviously intended to be 'replaced' by Wheelie.

 

As for Optimus... well, War Within started a good thing by showing a 'green' Optimus trying to figure out how to fight the war, but ended up getting rid of him for the rest of what was published. If Optimus was NOT to blame for Cybertron's condition at the start of the cartoon MTMTE, then it's quite possible the Decepticon victories occurred while he was still MIA.

 

Which, of course, would mean to the 'average' Autobot that Prime was unreliable. First he vanishes and the Cons stomp them, then he gets back and takes volunteers to go hunt Energon, and is gone for ANOTHER six million years...

Optimus Prime and Megatron were great characters and they made the first 2 seasons of the original cartoon. No doubt about it.

 

Replacing them with Rodimus and Galvatron was a mistake and it makes sense that Hasbro does not want to do that again. I also agree that season 3 had little memorable characters (aside from Kup and perhaps Ultra Magnus). So that hurt the show a lot as well.

 

And the statement that Optimus Prime did not propell the status of Transformers as he was succeeded by several others does not hold much truth either. If Prime was not responsible, then neither were those other. Rodimus Prime was not really a memorable leader either and the others (aside from Fortress Maximus who was seen in season 4 but not as leader) were never seen in the US cartoons.

 

As for those leaders being more successful. The Japanese have a much higher tolerance for violence, not to mention swearing (while watching Headmasters even I was shocked at the language) so it would stand to reason that a leader could blow the crap out of a lot of opponents and dispatch them in gory and brutal ways.

 

US cartoons are of course censored and even if the writers wanted to do that it was just not politically correct. Heck even the swearing of Spike was removed for the video relase of the movie. However, Prime was a bit more war like in the movie as he orders the Dinobots to destroy Devastator. A subtle but inporant difference.

 

And in the Dreamwave comics he was also very willing to take care of Megatron for good but sadly humans had to get in the way and Megatron escaped.

 

Not to forget that a Japanese toy series will generally last for a year after which a new show takes its place. All the Japanese TF shows lasted one season so the current leader had to scap all his enemies in one season. US shows generally have a longer shelf life (well the good ones anyways), Beast Wars lasted for 3 seasons.

 

I think that for many fans that Optimus Prime being such a great and charismatic leader helped the show a lot. Heck, someone even changed his name to Optimus Prime. That is what made Beast Wars so great as well, good leaders (and of course a good supporting cast).

 

It does not apply just to Transformers though. I have been a Star Trek fan for a long time and I am fond of Kirk, Picard, Archer and especially Sisko as they all have charisma and are just great characters. Janeway on the other hand I am not so fond of and as such I like Voyager a little less as well.

 

A good main villain is probably even more imporant as that keeps the show exciting. I mean I have seen Headmasters and Mega Zarak is such an incompetent piece of slag that the whole series is just hard to swallow. I was so hoping for Galvatron to slag him. :tftongue

 

What a difference compared to BW Megatron. Pretty much all of his soldiers (aside from Scorponok and Inferno) have tried to betray him once or twice. And still he gets really close to destroying the Maximals several times. I think he is the most successful leader in Decepticon/Predacon/Vehicon history.

 

I do not think that Hasbro should follow Takara's example and make different Primes. The subtitle Prime will make people compare the new Prime to Optimus Prime just as they did with Rodimus. I do think they should go with new leaders though and also a new storyline to boot.

 

The Autobot leader should be more militaristic and the Decepticons should be lead by an incompetent fool whom is slowly replaced by his cunning and ruthless second in command.

 

But given past experiences and the popularity of both figures I think it is safe to say Hasbro will never do that.

 

And on an unrelated note, I think Bumblebee is just as iconic as Soundwave, Megatron, Starscream, and Grimlock or Prime.

It seems to me that the majority opinion is that Prime, and perhaps Megatron, should be replaced.

 

Leaders that have been suggested are Sentinel Prime and Rodimus Prime. Personally, I think Sentinel would be a good choice. People seem to be fond of prequels, so why not do one with the Transformers? Perhaps have the war taken back to a time when it was between the Autobots and the Destrons before Megatron led them as the Decepticons. You could even do it in such a way as to show Optimus Prime as a young leader after Sentinel's death, which gives you a number of bonuses. One, you keep Optimus's name. Two, you show a devastating death of a wonderful leader, replaced by the green, yet growing competent Optimus. Finally, you can show the more ruthless leader of the Destrons subverted by his cunning second in command, Megatron. Thus both names are retained, and peace rules the Fandom. Ha ha.

 

I believe the subtitle "Prime" has to be retained for the leader simply because it's a title, and not just a name. Prime indicates the leader, much like we call our US leader the "President". I'm pretty sure that's never going to change, unless we take this to a new dimension, where the leader is either not none by a subtitle, or he's known by a different one.

 

Of course, there's always the potential idea of "losing" the Matrix and then being unable to form a new Prime. THAT might be interesting, as not all Autobots might be willing to follow the new leader, simply because he's not a Prime. It'd be interesting to see things turned around, where you have a united Decepticon front facing off against a divided Autobot one, with the leader of the Autobots struggling to maintain order and trying to spread his authority to encompass the entire Autobot army.

 

In the end, I'm in favor of a new leader for both sides, though less so for Megatron. I just don't see him needing it, as he's got a lot of character potential that just needs to be delved into. Optimus, it seems, has been done and done to death.

Of course in most tv shows/cartoons/comics there are certain sterotypes or other characters done to death. A lot of Japense cartoons focus on a young kid who is really into something and becomes a master in that (Pokemon- Ash/Medabots- Ikki).

 

After Fantastic Four most superhero groups have included a member with a monsterlike appereance who (in most cases) also possesses great strength.

 

And of course the yong hothead type (Human Torch, Hot Rod, Cheetor) or absentminded scientist are also severely over-used character types. Not to mention the ambitous traitor. :tftongue

 

I really like Beast Wars in that respect. Rhinox was not only the strongman but also the scientist of the Maximals.

I have always liked Optimus prime, I cheered on the Decepticons, but always enjoyed anything that dealt with Prime. And now We have the Michael Bay Prime. All I have to say is great job, prime looks more powerful than ever, he looks like he can kick some serious ass. I am really excited for this movie to come out, and I will definetely be picking up Primes movie figure. :Dc

I have always liked Optimus prime, I cheered on the Decepticons, but always enjoyed anything that dealt with Prime. And now We have the Michael Bay Prime. All I have to say is great job, prime looks more powerful than ever, he looks like he can kick some serious ass. I am really excited for this movie to come out, and I will definetely be picking up Primes movie figure. :Dc

 

 

:pfx

The Autobot leader should be more militaristic and the Decepticons should be lead by an incompetent fool whom is slowly replaced by his cunning and ruthless second in command.

So, Japan's dub of Beast Wars?

 

I mean come on, they made BW Megatron SCREAM LIKE A GIRL when he was blasted at.

I have to throw my 2 cents in here. After they killed off Prime in TF:TM Hasbro said they recieved so many letters and so fourth about it that they had to bring him back! Hasbro said they made a mistake and wont do that again.

 

Optimus Prime was the only reason I started watching the TF cartoons in the 80's in the first place. He embodies everything a leader should be. Yes I have my other favorites in the Autobot ranks but Prime was always my first. They have had other leaders take his place such as Rodimus and Ultra Magnus but they never worked out, and for several reasons which I wont go into.

 

Did Rodiumus kill off the TF in the 80's? No. The death of Prime did plus some other factors as well.

 

Optimus Prime is just as popular today as he was back in the 80's. The legend that is Optimus Prime will never die no matter if some of us like it or not.

 

 

:usa

When people think of Transformers, they think of Optimus Prime and Megatron first. We as hardcore fans may think that other characters are better, that the two original leaders are outdated etc. But this doesn't change the fact that OP and Megs are the bread and butter of TFs. It is similar to comic book superheroes. The average guy off the street knows who Superman is. Though Superman isn't a terribly interesting hero (he is too good, too noble, too strong, etc), he is so iconic that the very name "superhero" is based off of him!

 

It is similar with Optimus Prime. Yes, he is too good, too noble, too strong, etc., just like Superman. But he IS Transformers in a way that Rodimus Prime, Star Saber, Optimus Primal, etc are not. You wouldn't have Justice League without Superman (yeah I know they did in the comics, but I'm talking about a movie, TV show, etc. with widespread appeal), and you shouldn't have TFs without Optimus Prime. The same is true about Megatron. He was such a great bad guy that no one else compares. One of the reasons many people disliked the Star Wars prequels was there was no really compelling villain across all three movies. Darth Maul, Jango Fett, the Emperor, Count Dooku... there were just too many bad guys and not a one was as cool as DARTH VADER. A TF series without Megs is like Eps 1 and 2 with no Vader: not very good and not really "Star Wars!"

 

OP is without a doubt the most famous TF of all, closely followed by Megatron, and Hasbro would be foolish to not count on that to boost sales.

 

Long live the Optimus Prime vs. Megatron conflict! :P

Good point.

 

I have seen the Star Wars movies and have to agree. Darth Maul was cool but he got killed in the first movie. Jango Fett was a rank amateur. Heck he stood there shooting while a Jedi came rushing towards him with a lightsaber. I was like get your hand weapon fool!

 

But all those villains did not compare to Vader and he is very cool and iconic.

 

A good villain can make or break a show. I loved Star Trek First Contact because it featured the Borg who are easiliy scarier than Vader. As villains go, you cannot get much more terrifying than the Borg.

 

The same goes for a good hero and even if he is overdone like Superman one cannot really picture certain things without him.

 

And Transformers without Optimus Prime and Megatron would work but I doubt they would try that in a tv show. Too risky.