who hates bm? i thought everybody liked it...

My only complaint about Beast Machines is how they altered Primal's Character. He went from a Superhero with a decent sense of humour to a inept, indecisive hippy.

 

 

I understand most of the cause of that is the huge amount of guilt he  feels over losing the Beast Wars and the repercussions that had on Cybertron, but still it was just such a huge character shift.

 

 

Cheetor really shone though in the leader spot, I loved the extra character development for everyone, the general shift in the "feel" of the show.

 

And Primal completely redeemed himself in the superhero department in the last couple of episodes though. His fight with Optimal Megatron is probably the best I've seen in a TV series, not just  a TF series.

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Optimus , like the others ,lost their programming and protocalls , a sacrifice to obtain true life beyond the machine, therefore they only had their personal judgement to go by.

That means macking mistakes, letting emotions to controll them etc...

 

The meditation part was to 'sentre'' themselves and allow 'beast whithin' to give way to the evolved form :thumb

I hated what was done with Rhinox & Rattrap. That turned me off most & that's why I stopped watching it about 2/3 into the first season. I went back & got the whole series from Sharezaa, simply because I cannot tolerate any of the shows since Beast Machines.

 

Say what you will about BM, it wasn't pure garbage like whats been cranked out since then. I wonder if any kids who grow up with Armada/Energon/Cybertron will look back upon them as fondly as we do with G1. While G1 didn't exactly have its Emmy moments, it was a decent show.

While IMDB is not perfectly accurate, the only TF credits it lists for Wolfman are a BW ep and the ep for the Return of Optimus Prime, Part 1.  It also lists him as "Executive Script Consultant" for the original series, but that in itself isn't very informative and I'm not thoroughly versed in all the people behind the property throughout its history.  It doesn't show anything for the movie.  While most G1 fans like (or love) the movie: there were still elements in it that people accepted yet could have gone either way, and there were elements that weren't necessarily liked at all (such as Wheelie).  And whatever a fan liked or didn't, it's not clear that one can attribute any specific part of the final product to the various people behind it.

 

Anyhow, no offense meant but the reason I like G1 only doesn't really have to do with who did or didn't write it.  And many creative people are known to have done bad stuff even after having done good stuff, whether or not you or I feel it applies to Mr. Wolfman.  Acknowledging the silliness inherent in all kids cartoons, there was just a certain combination of qualities and elements about G1 that I liked.  The whole Beast anything introduced something that just clashed with it in a way I can' reconcile to myself.

 

Certainly there's something to be said for open-mindedness.  Perhaps BM has many great qualities and merits itself, be it good characters, story execution, toys, whatever.  But by the same token, the same could be said of any and every other series out there that has ever had any sort of following.  Yet, we can't all of us rush out and become fans of every different series and property out there, so in the end we still must pick and choose.  Some of us will pick one way; some will choose another.

 

Whatever the case, I'm not about to stop anyone else from enjoying something simply because I personally don't, or even if I personally think the world would be better off without it.  If people have the freedom to enjoy what appeals to them, they also lack the obligation to like what doesn't appeal.  I just know what I enjoy and know what I don't.

 

And most G1 fans know in their minds what is "as close to G1 as they can get".  A good number of them haven't really seen it yet or they'd have all swarmed back.

Yeah...

 

I know what Starscreamer's saying, but Marv Wolfman didn't come up with everything in BM. He did come up with the idea of the Vehicons, though.

 

If a fan is of the opinion that G1 *is* "Transformers", then they might have a hard time with Beast Machines, since it is so different from G1 in so many ways. On the other hand, *I* am of the opinion that "The Transformers" is a cartoon/comic that existed in the mid-80's. Period. Beast Wars is "Beast Wars" and Beast Machines is "Beast Machines". (Notice how the word "Transformers" was written in small lettering below the titles on those shows.) And I don't think it's a coincidence that ever since RiD, every TF series title has led off with the word "Transformers". "Transformers: Robots in Disguise", "Transformers: Armada", "Transformers: Energon", "Transformers: Cybertron" (even "Transformers: Universe" and "Transformers: Alternators").

 

When I watch BW, I appreciate the G1 tie-in, but I'm still very much aware that this show is really Beast Wars, not G1 Part Two. Same with Beast Machines. Every show has its own sensibility, and I personally think it's a lot easier to appreciate these shows when they are watched for what they are, not merely as an extension of G1.

I liked Beast Machines. It wasn't great, but it was good. Beast Wars was great though. Too bad they ran out of money when Cybertron got reformatted, it coulda looked better. Like in TF Universe #1.

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Is this serious? No wonder every thing looked Crappy in the last 3 minute's like those poorly animated protoforms.

I liked Beast Machines. It wasn't great, but it was good. Beast Wars was great though. Too bad they ran out of money when Cybertron got reformatted, it coulda looked better. Like in TF Universe #1.

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Is this serious? No wonder every thing looked Crappy in the last 3 minute's like those poorly animated protoforms.

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It's never been anything more than fan speculation. IMO Nightscream's flashback didn't look that fantastic either, and that was in episode 5. It's clear that they spent their time and attention on the main characters.

The original script also included a scene with Obsidian and Strika in which they decided against reformatting and remained machines as their punishment for siding with Megatron.

The original script also included a scene with Obsidian and Strika in which they decided against reformatting and remained machines as their punishment for siding with Megatron.

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Yeah, it would have been nice to see that. Although I'm trying to imagine that not looking goofy... the Maximals flying up them and being like "so hey, you wanna come back down?" and them being like "no thanks, we'll just stay here." "Oh okay then..."

 

Plus it would have been a bit anticlimactic, the way the story was structured. Once the Maximals woke up, it needed to be "The End".

Marv is great, his stories on BM were good, but the main guy was a man named Bob Skir who rapes everything he gets his hands on.  We have him to blame for X-Men Evolution and Godzilla the cartoon show.  He likes to take franchises with rich backstories and completly ignore him.  Not really his fault cause when Hasbro did BM thats exactully what they wanted.  Bob Foward and Larry Ditillio kinda tricked them by bringing in heavy G1 referances at the end, so they brought in Bob Skir to clean up the mess (in their eyes) and start something frsh.  In Skir's own words, "The cannon for Beast Wars was G1.  The cannon for our show is Beast Wars"  Which would have been great if he hadn't completly ignored facts like, Megatron complained about Energon guzzling Autobots and Decepticons, yet all of a sudden decided on making that the new craze, and completly ignoring the Vok which was established by Forward and ditillio to be a main focus on Season 4 had they got to do Season 4, and also the Tri-Pred Counsil which would have made a great 3 group fighting storyline if they returned to Cybertron with Megs in tow.  He announces to the Preds that their leaders are Unicron spawn and you have three factions fighting each other.  There are still parts of Beast Machines I really like, which maybe I should give credit to Marv for that, but most of Beast Machines was an insult to Beast Wars.

 

It's 100% better then Armada, Energon, or RId though.

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Hmmm...I'm a life long X-Men fan, and I really enjoyed "Evolution." Just one fan's opinion, though. Don't mean to thread jack.