As I understand it Pyro was released as a "Transformers" toy, before the words "Generation 1" or "Geneeration 2" were ever spoken in Transformers circles, but he had a strange new Autobot symbol and seemed to leader of some new line Autobot. The box has this new symbol, but simply said "Transformers: Robots in Disguise" across the top. A short time later the box was changed to say "Transformers: Generation 2."

 

Same thing happened with a number of toys released in Europe in the early 1990s. The has 2 versions as the name "Generation 2" was added to the boxes over the year, but since they had, what would become the G2 symbols on them, we throw them into G2 for ease of classification.

Speaking as someone living in Europe (UK) and still collecting at the time in question, I find this discussion very interesting. As a kid I was completely unaware that G1 had stopped in the US, I only knew that the comic was ending yet toys were still pouring onto the shelves.

 

I bought a lot of Turbomasters, Aquaspeeders, Action Masters such as Sideswipe/Tracks, orange Constructicons etc back in 91/92, well before such a thing as 'G2' was known.

 

I guess my question is - when exactly was the term 'G2' first thought up? These molds must have been from Takara, right? Did Takara call them 'G2' when they were released there? In other words, if these figures were released in Europe first in the whole world, were they simply the latest toys designed before an official label had been coined for them?

That seems to be the case. I believe it was Hasbro that came up with the title. And G2 proper didn't get into full swing until 1993, at least in the US. When Hasbro coined the term, I couldn't tell you, but it was probably during this two year hiatus in the US during 1991 and 1992 where Europe was in the transition between generations.

As I understand it Pyro was released as a "Transformers" toy, before the words "Generation 1" or "Geneeration 2" were ever spoken in Transformers circles, but he had a strange new Autobot symbol and seemed to leader of some new line Autobot. The box has this new symbol, but simply said "Transformers: Robots in Disguise" across the top. A short time later the box was changed to say "Transformers: Generation 2."

 

Same thing happened with a number of toys released in Europe in the early 1990s. The has 2 versions as the name "Generation 2" was added to the boxes over the year, but since they had, what would become the G2 symbols on them, we throw them into G2 for ease of classification.

That's exactly right. The transitional packaging had the G2 faction symbols with just the title Transformers.

I am arguing the point in question. The toy is part of a transtion between Generation 1 and Generation 2 that included both G1 and G2 toys. The line itself was a transition. The G1 line proper had ended and transitioned into G2 proper with an overlap during 1991 and 1992. Pyro was one of the Generation 2 toys released during this transitional timeframe. That is the answer.

It would appear that your willful ignorance fully extends to disregarding my statement indicating a complete disinterest on my part in debating the issue any further with yourself.

I am arguing the point in question. The toy is part of a transtion between Generation 1 and Generation 2 that included both G1 and G2 toys. The line itself was a transition. The G1 line proper had ended and transitioned into G2 proper with an overlap during 1991 and 1992. Pyro was one of the Generation 2 toys released during this transitional timeframe. That is the answer.

 

Hey Tramp---I'm getting really interested in this discussion. I guess the question I would pose here is "Why the switch of names from Pyro to Spark?" I own Spark (with the GPS problem). Is he a completely different character or just a rechristening of the original character? The colors are the same on both, right?

According to the Ultimate Guide, TFWiki and TFU.Info, everything about the mold is the exact same. He was just rechristened when G2 went into full swing. The same thing happened to Clench, who was rechristened as Colossus. There was no mold change, no color change, nothing; Just a change in packaging and name. Even the "sub group" name of "Obliterators" remained the same. Why they changed the name? I have no idea. To my knowledge, no one really uses the later names for them anyways.

 

I just got my Spark out of storage for this discussion---I think I'm going to try to fix him. If I can, then he'll become Pyro---but my Colossus is going to remain Colossus. I like that better than Clench! Thanks for the info.

I guess my question is - when exactly was the term 'G2' first thought up? These molds must have been from Takara, right? Did Takara call them 'G2' when they were released there? In other words, if these figures were released in Europe first in the whole world, were they simply the latest toys designed before an official label had been coined for them?

 

I don't recall these figures ever being released in the Japanese market. Which is interesting. I will have to find my old Turbomasters and see what the copyright stamp says. Whether these were toys comissioned seperately by HasbroUK or what I'm not sure.

 

When Hasbro coined the term, I couldn't tell you, but it was probably during this two year hiatus in the US during 1991 and 1992 where Europe was in the transition between generations.

To say Europe was in a transition between Generations implies that they knew what they were doing, and had clearly specified that these were a new line of figures. In Australia we recieved our TF stocks from HasbroUK until mid-Beast Wars when we began getting them through HasbroUS, and so also recieved these figures. The issue at hand with Turbomasters/Predators/Rescue Force/Pyro/Clench/Aquaspeeders/etc is that between 1991-1993 we still got these these toys as part of "The Transformers" - what we now call G1. In Europe there was no real end to G1 as we know it today , but was continued through with the releases of the Turbomasters, etc, and ultimately transitioned into G2. If you want to call it a Transitional line, that is your choice, but for me as someone purchasing them at the time, there was never any demarcation between G1 and these figures. They all kinda blended into each other. G2 then came along and was officially different.

 

 

I am arguing the point in question. The toy is part of a transtion between Generation 1 and Generation 2 that included both G1 and G2 toys. The line itself was a transition. The G1 line proper had ended and transitioned into G2 proper with an overlap during 1991 and 1992. Pyro was one of the Generation 2 toys released during this transitional timeframe. That is the answer.

It would appear that your willful ignorance fully extends to disregarding my statement indicating a complete disinterest on my part in debating the issue any further with yourself.

 

As I said above, the issue with Turbomasters/Predators/Rescue Force/Pyro/Clench/Aquaspeeders/etc is that between 1991-1993 these toys were still released in Europe as part of "The Transformers" - there was no official separation between G1 as we know it today and these figures. This period is what Tramp terms as a transitional line, despite there never being any official separation between what we now term G1 and these figures. Therefore, until the advent of G2, they fit within the G1 releases for many people buying them.

 

However, because these figures did break somewhat from the pattern of G1 figures and were first released in a period in which for Americans G1 had finished, many people seem uncomfortable in considering these figures as part of G1. Because these later figures share many qualities with the G2 figures, and had many figures rereleased in America as part of their G2 line, they find it easier to classify these later European G1 releases as part of the G2 releases.

 

Short answer - they were officially released within the European/Australian/Canadian markets as part of what we would now refer to as G1. Many fans find it easier to consider them as part G2. Some choose to say they were part of a transitionary line, never really belonging in either group. Thus they sit uncomfortably in many people's collections, with no real "home" to speak of. Hope that answers your question JOP.

Well, it's not just fans which consider them G2 figures in from a transition between G1 and G2. The Ultimate Guide does as well. It specifically refers to them as G2 figures released during a time of transition between G2 and G2, as shown in the quotes from the book I've cited. Page 76 and 77 specifically refers to these toys released between '91 and '92 as "the very first Generation 2 toys" released during a time that was "not yet G2 but wasn't officially G1 either". The packaging also shows the beginnings of a change in the line from one generation to the next through the use of the new G2 faction symbols. Thus, I would say that yes, this was a conscious decision, G1 was officially dead, so Hasbro was gearing up for G2 proper during '91 and '92.

 

Pyro is referred to as "A European G2 exclusive" in the very first sentence of his write-up. In fact, all of the G2 toys the Ultimate Guide shows—aside from G2 Megatron—are from this transitional period between 1991 and 1992. This includes Pyro, Clench, Flash, Scorch, Boss, and Hurricane. All of them are catagorized as Generation 2 toys and were released during this transitional period that are often "lumped together" with the latter G1. The official stance then appears to be that these were G2 toys and that yes,m this was a transitional time. Essentially, they were a preview of Generation 2.

I don't recall these figures ever being released in the Japanese market. Which is interesting. I will have to find my old Turbomasters and see what the copyright stamp says. Whether these were toys comissioned seperately by HasbroUK or what I'm not sure.

 

When Hasbro coined the term, I couldn't tell you, but it was probably during this two year hiatus in the US during 1991 and 1992 where Europe was in the transition between generations.

To say Europe was in a transition between Generations implies that they knew what they were doing, and had clearly specified that these were a new line of figures. In Australia we recieved our TF stocks from HasbroUK until mid-Beast Wars when we began getting them through HasbroUS, and so also recieved these figures. The issue at hand with Turbomasters/Predators/Rescue Force/Pyro/Clench/Aquaspeeders/etc is that between 1991-1993 we still got these these toys as part of "The Transformers" - what we now call G1. In Europe there was no real end to G1 as we know it today , but was continued through with the releases of the Turbomasters, etc, and ultimately transitioned into G2. If you want to call it a Transitional line, that is your choice, but for me as someone purchasing them at the time, there was never any demarcation between G1 and these figures. They all kinda blended into each other. G2 then came along and was officially different.

To muddy the waters even more, I decided to dig out some stuff from that time - these are the 'Predators' I bought in the UK in early '92.

They're mint in (carefully) opened packaging. As you can see, they have G1 Decepticon faction symbols. I checked the imprint on the figures themselves and they are stamped with '© TAKARA '91. MADE IN MACAU.' and also '© '91 HASBRO INC.'

Unfortunately I never owned Pyro so I can't check that figure, but I don't see why he would be any different...

A picture of Pyro was already posted earlier in this thread and the package shows the G2 Autobot symbol on it. Here's the link Scaleface provided on page 6:

Pyro/Spark and here are the images of the original transitional package as well as the later "Spark" package:

 

 

Note that the original Pyro packaging already has the G2 Autobot symbol and Obliterators sub-line title. Added to the information in the Ultimate Guide, this is further evidence that this was indeed a G2 toy—and always intended as one—released during a planned transition between the G1 and G2.

Ironic it has Black and Yellow Stripes...usually warning you to stay away from it..... :rofl