I can't believe I'm enabling this thread...

 

I would say that when the tapes are inside Soundwave, they're "inactive" and controlled by him. But when they pop out, they sort of wake up or something.

 

Maybe that's why Soundwave always has to brief them on their mission when they come out -- they don't know what the heck's going on. :tflaugh

 

But then there was the time in TF:TM when they, er, "spontaneously ejected" to defend Soundwave's honor...

 

*puts on thinking cap of fanboyination*

 

Maybe Soundwave can transmit electrical impulses to them when they're "hibernating" so that they can at least track with what Soundwave's thinking / feeling.

 

(I knew I could do it... :thumb)

Remember in WWI Ratrap was fully independent of soundwave, and is the Hardwired novels when SW joins Megs faction some stay with SS

Remember in WWI Ratrap was fully independent of soundwave, and is the Hardwired novels when SW joins Megs faction some stay with SS

Rat-trap was part of Soundwave?!

 

WOAH!

Okay: the much-debated subject of mass-changing.

 

In other words: not just a question of size, but size and weight, like namely, WHERE THE HELL DOES IT ALL GO??!!

 

After doing much thinking about this, I may have an answer that might satisfy everyone.......

 

First off, Prime's trailer. Since prime can split into three autonomous modes, it would make sense that unless specificcally ordered to do so by optimus, His trailer would find a place in battle that it wasn't such an easy target, considering that it's mobility largely depends on Optimus. Therefore, it would use it's limited movement to seek out someplace that was out of the way in combat. this way, it could shelter injured Autobots in it's repair bay, as well as act as a radar/ relay platform of sorts. Not really a question of mass-changing...

 

The main point: mass-changing itself. To merely say that the space between the molecules of the metal in the robots isn't enough. They would still be too heavy. Also, transformers move with a lot of grace and speed for giant robots, considering what they must weigh. I suspect that Cybertronian alloy must be a lot lighter and stronger than our terran metal alloys. Also, who says that all the internal space inside of them MUST be filled to the gills with circuitry and machine parts? In order to transform, some hollow space is going to have to exist for other parts to slide and fold into. External armor seems to be present for the protection of components, but nothing says that right behind it has to be a vital component. Maybe everything is compartmentalized in sheaths well inside the main mechanisms.

 

Combine this with reducing the space between molecules, and you have the potential for the possibility of mass-changing. While it's not perfect, and bound to have a whole plethora of unanswered questions and flaws, I think it works out fairly well...

Okay: the much-debated subject of mass-changing.

 

In other words: not just a question of size, but size and weight, like namely, WHERE THE HELL DOES IT ALL GO??!!

 

After doing much thinking about this, I may have an answer that might satisfy everyone.......

 

First off, Prime's trailer. Since prime can split into three autonomous modes, it would make sense that unless specificcally ordered to do so by optimus, His trailer would find a place in battle that it wasn't such an easy target, considering that it's mobility largely depends on Optimus. Therefore, it would use it's limited movement to seek out someplace that was out of the way in combat. this way, it could shelter injured Autobots in it's repair bay, as well as act as a radar/ relay platform of sorts. Not really a question of mass-changing...

 

The main point: mass-changing itself. To merely say that the space between the molecules of the metal in the robots isn't enough. They would still be too heavy. Also, transformers move with a lot of grace and speed for giant robots, considering what they must weigh. I suspect that Cybertronian alloy must be a lot lighter and stronger than our terran metal alloys. Also, who says that all the internal space inside of them MUST be filled to the gills with circuitry and machine parts? In order to transform, some hollow space is going to have to exist for other parts to slide and fold into. External armor seems to be present for the protection of components, but nothing says that right behind it has to be a vital component. Maybe everything is compartmentalized in sheaths well inside the main mechanisms.

 

Combine this with reducing the space between molecules, and you have the potential for the possibility of mass-changing. While it's not perfect, and bound to have a whole plethora of unanswered questions and flaws, I think it works out fairly well...

And THIS, ladies and gentlemen, is why this (and other) topic(s) keep coming up. Because -some- of us are capable of discussing it rationally and realistically.

 

I constantly find it interesting that the best the "anti-G1" and "anti-mass-changing" people can ever seem to come up with is "because it's stupid!" and "because this ISN'T G1! Get over it!"

 

:P

And THIS, ladies and gentlemen, is why this (and other) topic(s) keep coming up. Because -some- of us are capable of discussing it rationally and realistically.

 

I constantly find it interesting that the best the "anti-G1" and "anti-mass-changing" people can ever seem to come up with is "because it's stupid!" and "because this ISN'T G1! Get over it!"

 

:P

G1 seems to suffer a stigma, due to the writing and inconsitencies of many of the g1 episodes. Although I can understand many people's feelings about this ("it's only a cartoon, quit overanalyzing it!"), the fact that they constantly use that as a reason to disregard things that bother them from g1 troubles me too, DLP.

 

Instead of finding reasons why things WON'T work, what's wrong with figuring out how they WILL? I think if many folks did that, we wouldnt have half the arguements we do in these topics. :)

Okay: the much-debated subject of mass-changing.

 

In other words: not just a question of size, but size and weight, like namely, WHERE THE HELL DOES IT ALL GO??!!

 

After doing much thinking about this, I may have an answer that might satisfy everyone.......

 

First off, Prime's trailer. Since prime can split into three autonomous modes, it would make sense that unless specificcally ordered to do so by optimus, His trailer would find a place in battle that it wasn't such an easy target, considering that it's mobility largely depends on Optimus. Therefore, it would use it's limited movement to seek out someplace that was out of the way in combat. this way, it could shelter injured Autobots in it's repair bay, as well as act as a radar/ relay platform of sorts. Not really a question of mass-changing...

 

The main point: mass-changing itself. To merely say that the space between the molecules of the metal in the robots isn't enough. They would still be too heavy. Also, transformers move with a lot of grace and speed for giant robots, considering what they must weigh. I suspect that Cybertronian alloy must be a lot lighter and stronger than our terran metal alloys. Also, who says that all the internal space inside of them MUST be filled to the gills with circuitry and machine parts? In order to transform, some hollow space is going to have to exist for other parts to slide and fold into. External armor seems to be present for the protection of components, but nothing says that right behind it has to be a vital component. Maybe everything is compartmentalized in sheaths well inside the main mechanisms.

 

Combine this with reducing the space between molecules, and you have the potential for the possibility of mass-changing. While it's not perfect, and bound to have a whole plethora of unanswered questions and flaws, I think it works out fairly well...

the extra mass gets stored in subspace, and primes trailor teleports back to the Ark(explanation given by Manga).

I was thinking of ways that didn't involve subspace and were far more logical and practical. "Storing" anything in an extradimensional pocket would conceivably use a LOT of energy, and would presumably be more energy intensive to summon and send away. Also, if subspace pockets were the case, couldn't the decepticons simply devise a device to invade these pockets and take that transformers' weapon or accesory, or do something to screw up his mass? Even implant a bomb in their extra mass so that when they summon it, they blow themselves up? (Think about prime's trailer in this case: he feels injury experienced by his other two components. The decepticons could have a lot of "FUN" with prime by kidnapping his trailer and torturing it. )

 

A whole plethora of "what ifs" is possible in that scenario. I seek to find more logical ways that it could work. Ones that other TFans could accept a bit better than the whole subspace thing.

A whole plethora of "what ifs" is possible in that scenario. I seek to find more logical ways that it could work. Ones that other TFans could accept a bit better than the whole subspace thing.

And just WTF's wrong with the standard movie plot-device of "it's magic!"?! :wtf

 

 

:tflaugh

And just WTF's wrong with the standard movie plot-device of "it's magic!"?! :wtf

 

 

:tflaugh

Nothing, for a Harry Potter movie. This is a robot movie, not a wizard movie. :tfgrin

Okay anyone expecting anything G1 in the new live action movie is going to be sorely disappointed. Sure, some familiar names will be there for fanboy sake, but in order to appeal to other demographics, producers will probly want to start off a clean slate . Theres no way Hollywood is taking an idea thats already been done when they can just start over and maximize profit. And forget about Soundwave, he wont even appear, his name alone complicates things. When you think TF Live Action, think Masters of the Universe the movie. Remember that stinker!! (and yet I love it so).

 

Listen, no matter what, TF the new movie is going to be a huge chunk of eye candy!!!

 

Oh and the whole subspace thing/mass transfer...I have to agree it was a silly idea to begin with. I could never grasp it as a kid, and I am hardcore G1 for life, beeotch!!!