Oh, for the love of....why does everyone continue to reply to Tramp? Can't we just stop feeding him, please?

This. I've already yelled at him on another forum, I'm not eager to do so again.

Yes, well...yelling at him really has the opposite effect on such people. They really do thrive on it. Not to mention the fact that...well, yelling really is rather childish, n'est-ce pas? Doesn't help.

But it did make me feel better. ;3

 

Really, his most irritating argument is that sex=gender, and that gender=interest in having sex. Apparently, transsexuals and asexuals don't exist in his universe, and alien species aren't allowed to have non-human versions of the concept of gender... of course, the anthropocentrism and ethnocentrism are pretty annoying, too. (Apparently, the only genders anyone can be ever are "boy" and "girl". No, really. It's totally unheard of to be anything else.)

I've always interpreted it as their programming. Arcee's programmed to be a female, so she's a female. Hot Rod's programmed to be a male, so he's a male. As machines with AI they try to imitate organic life. Romantic interest is part of that imitation. In the end it's all a facade though because as machines they can't, well, you know....:P

 

So hey, if a TFer is programmed to be transgendered, he/she's transgandered, at least as much as a robot can be. For all we know one of Animated Blitzwing's personalities may be female (the hothead one could be programmed after an East German female Olympian :D)

 

 

I rather like the way they explained the idea of Arcee being female in her Spotlight.

As far as the plethora of "why female robots exist" theories, the IDW Spotlight one is the most thought out.

Still, I tend to disregard anything other then my "programming" theory. It fits my personal canon (and it's the least weird).

 

Actually if you want to explain a generational lineage for Transformers, and assume they might actually breed/ mate you could assume they use things like cables, and such. Like connecting 2 computers in a network. That is the basis for a story I wrote with my friend Masterminicon called Transformers Generations. We don't go too far into detail as to keep it G rated.

I didn't get involved in the topic a few pages back on the scale size of these toys. I would like to present my 2 cents. I hate to be the "G1" guy, but that's just because I grew up with them. I didn't have a clue as a kid why there were so many different size transformers, and quite frankly I really didn't care. It nver crossed my mind once really......until I got older. Now it really ticks me off when the toys aren't to scale with each other, but I tend to let it not get to me. Personally, I don't have the new Powerglide...yet. I have the G1 paintjob preordered through my favorite company BBTS. I love the look and everything, but I do feel he's atd too big. It wouldn't bother me so much if, like so many of you mentioned before, he were in scale with the "seekers". After all, this is his competition. This brings me to my main point. I figured the classics line was a revamp of the G1 characters. This would be a chance to showcase them as they should be, and not as bricks. I figured now they are starting over, let's make them to scale. Well, this works with the new mold deluxe figures, but I think what messes it up is the addition of other series figures being repainted and thrown into the mix. Now before you say we already discussed the whole " I hate repaints thing" again, I'll say it's okay to do repaints, but the classics line, I feel they need to make seperate molds. They need to concentrate on the classics, or universe line right now. I will admit, I have 6 animated figures and I am highly impressed with them. That's why I have 6 of them as I originally only wanted Starscream. What I'm getting at, is I like the animated toys, but I am G1 guy and so I like the classics/universe line better. I for one am going to display my Fracture with my classics line. I'm sorry, she fits that line a lot better than the Movie line. So, that's my take. I wish they would have made the scale better for these universe figures, but I guess we just have to deal with them. For one, PowerGlide, Silverbolt, and Onslaught are the best molds for Universe so far. Sunstreaker, Prowl, and Galvatron are nice editions, but are somewhat bland. Their scale size fits better with the original classics line. The Ultra class is a little ridiculous in size, but I guess we have to deal with it. I guess we'll just have to say Powerglide has really advanced after all these years. O, sorry for rambling on. :tflol

a robostork drops little nanobots into robocots overnight (true story)

Actually once the cable is connected they share their spark energies, and a new little spark is formed. This new little spark grows inside of the Momma TF until it is ready to be placed into it's own little TF body. Now once the spark is ready Mom, and Dad build a body for baby, and Mom then plugs a cord from her body into the new little bot body, and implants the new little spark, and the baby comes on line. As they grow a new body is built to up grade, and develop the babybot. Now they use a 3 stage growth since their bodies don't actually grow. Also the reason for the 3 stage growth development is so that the childbot can learn to control each size, and once at their full size they are the equivalent of a 20 year old maturity wise.

Why, color me surprised. Using big words and everything. You actually have a brain beyond the facade of annoying cutesy girl. I might actually warm up to that.

Thanks, I think... though not for linking me to TV Tropes. *Goes off to lose another four hours of her life to that timesink* :tflaugh

 

Have we thrown the "they're male and female so they would not seem so alien to 10 year old boys" argument out the window?

TRANSFORMERS IZ SERIOUS BUSINESS

THE ONLY WAY TO FIGURE THIS OUT IS TO LOOK AT 25 YEARS OF MYTHOS WRITTEN BY DOZENS UPON DOZENS OF DIFFERENT PEOPLE! AND THERE IS ONLY ONE ANSWER, AND IT'S MINE, BY GOLLY.

 

What do you mean, "logic and science" and "Transformers" are mutually exclusive ideas? Lies, horrible lies, I say. :P

 

Actually once the cable is connected they share their spark energies, and a new little spark is formed. This new little spark grows inside of the Momma TF until it is ready to be placed into it's own little TF body. Now once the spark is ready Mom, and Dad build a body for baby, and Mom then plugs a cord from her body into the new little bot body, and implants the new little spark, and the baby comes on line. As they grow a new body is built to up grade, and develop the babybot. Now they use a 3 stage growth since their bodies don't actually grow. Also the reason for the 3 stage growth development is so that the childbot can learn to control each size, and once at their full size they are the equivalent of a 20 year old maturity wise.

That's an interesting theory~ I rather like it. Though I already liked the idea of sparking new life from one's own spark, or multiple sparks contributing energy to a new one.

 

You could also say that whoever built a TF would be the parent-- or, say, whoever asked Vector Sigma to program them, or whoever commissioned them from a factory, or whatever. :P So the Aerialbots would be the kids of everyone who worked to build them, and Prime's in particular because he made the request to Vector Sigma. That's my personal favorite theory, anyhow~ and referring to your "family" as such could easily be a personal preference, thus why Sideswipe and Sunstreaker (who're apparently closer to each other than they are to anyone else) are "brothers," but characters that are built in the same manner by the same people at the same time are never referred to as family if they're not emotionally close.

 

Or, of course, titles like brother/sister/mother/father/child/great-aunt could refer entirely to emotional status, not actual family-- somewhat like calling a close buddy "bro" or an old guy you're comfortable around "gramps," even though they're not your brother or grandparent.

All true.

 

I think though that we fans spend way too much time dissecting every little discrepancy and odditiy. If we did that to real life, none of us would work, have relationships, or even get up in the morning becaue life contradicts itself 1000 times more than any fiction we mere humans can create.

 

That being said, I think that storywise, you and Rodimus VTS might be on to something though. :thumb

What makes a character male or female is not their "programming" since Transformers are living organisms not mere machines. What makes a being male or female is not their personalities, That just makes them masculine or effeminate, just as you can have a very masculine woman or a very effeminate man. It is their bodies that makes them male or female. Being male or female is physical, down to the most fundamental levels, not behavioral, "masculine" and "feminine" are behavioral/cultural, but even those are dependent upon an individual being physically male or female.

No. They're not living organisms. They are robots.

"Robots in Disguise"? It's in the theme song. It's on the packaging. It was even the name of a TF cartoon series!

They are machines. Machines that have incredibly complex AI and are capable of self awarness, but machines non the less. As machines nothing about their bodies is fundamentally masculin or feminin. Their bodies are just wires, processors, conduits, etc.... It's their personalities, aka their progamming, that makes them "male" or "female."

Physically they're gender neutral.

 

Female TFers have always been shown to have more slending bodies (and stripper boots) because that's just an easy way to convey "this is a girl" to the franchise's primary audience, kids. It's a tool used to tell a story, not anything indictitive of a TFer being fundamentally female. A machine can't be fundamentally male or female. It's all in their programming.

 

***I know that this continues a discussion that we rather not have, especially one including Tramp. I posted this response because I felt like the voice of reason needed to be aired on the subject in response to Tramp's "argument."

To avoid continued public disucssion of this topic I won't respond to any response posted on this topic.

I'm always up for a good discussion, however; if Tramp really wants to respond he's invited to send me a PM. Lets keep this topic out of the public eye though.***

No, Agent Zero, they are not just "robots" They're robotic life forms. This is explicitly stated in many canon sources from the original cartoon, to the DW More than Meets the Eye books, and even the new movie. All specifically state that Transformers are living organisms, not mere "robots". They have genes, they heal and regenerate tissue through cellular replication. In the very first episode of the cartoon, the narrator specifically states that Cybertron is home to robotic life. In MtMtE #8, it refers to the Transformers as life forms repeatedly throughout the book. One specific passage in particular says, "The denizens of Cybertron are among the most powerful and gifted life forms, mechanical or otherwise, in the known universe." In the movie, Optimus Prime tells Sam and Mikela, "We are Autonomous robotic organisms from the planet Cybertron."Note the bolded words in those two quotes. "Life forms", "organisms". transformers are living beings, not simple robots like on Earth. As living organisms with genes, with self-replicating cells (composed of nanomachines), they are quite capable of being physically male and female.

Actually once the cable is connected they share their spark energies, and a new little spark is formed. This new little spark grows inside of the Momma TF until it is ready to be placed into it's own little TF body. Now once the spark is ready Mom, and Dad build a body for baby, and Mom then plugs a cord from her body into the new little bot body, and implants the new little spark, and the baby comes on line. As they grow a new body is built to up grade, and develop the babybot. Now they use a 3 stage growth since their bodies don't actually grow. Also the reason for the 3 stage growth development is so that the childbot can learn to control each size, and once at their full size they are the equivalent of a 20 year old maturity wise.

Through their self-replicating nanomachine-based cellular structure (which is what all Cybertronians are composed of, as stated in multiple canon sources), the "child" could physically develop within the mother as well. That would be the only logical reason for physical children anyway since every Transformer we see actually constructed is built as a fully grown adult right from the start, and none of them had mothers and fathers. Look at the Dinobots, Stunticons, and Aerialbots from the cartoon, for example. It makes more practical sense since an adult can become a fully functioning member of society immediately. A child is small and underdeveloped because it has to grow inside its mother's body or in an egg produced within her body. And only the Transformer children we see in various canon sources had mothers and fathers, and were physically small and underdeveloped. We never see any constructed Transformer being built as a small child. They were all built as adults.

Any further discussion of transformer 'mating' will result in warns.

Any further discussion of transformer 'mating' will result in warns.

:clap