Technorganic refers to a perfect blend of organics and technology. The Maximals in Beast Machines were technorganic. The Transformers in Beast Wars were simply technological beings that transformed into replicas of animals. For all intents and purposes, they can be classified as the same type of machine was the G1 Transformers.

No, the characters in Beast Wars had organic parts mixed in with their technology - they ate organic food, they needed to breathe and, most importantly, if they weren't organic in Beast Wars, then the whole point of Megatron hating the organics of his Transmetal 2 body in Beast Machines is moot.

Well, let's not debate that here... I only brought it up for illustrative purposes, anyway.

 

...dammit I can't take my own advice :redface

 

Megatron was a Transmetal 2, which = Frankenstein-like fusing of organic and technological, which was different from the original BW forms.

 

and the Maximals were all like "WTF are we now, robots or animals" in the beginning of BM

 

but like I said, it was only to make a point

Technorganic refers to a perfect blend of organics and technology. The Maximals in Beast Machines were technorganic. The Transformers in Beast Wars were simply technological beings that transformed into replicas of animals. For all intents and purposes, they can be classified as the same type of machine was the G1 Transformers.

No, the characters in Beast Wars had organic parts mixed in with their technology - they ate organic food, they needed to breathe and, most importantly, if they weren't organic in Beast Wars, then the whole point of Megatron hating the organics of his Transmetal 2 body in Beast Machines is moot.

Well, let's not debate that here... I only brought it up for illustrative purposes, anyway.

I'm just saying it all sounds really nitpicky. To me, for the purposes of speculating on her secret, "technorganic creature", "cyborg", or "robot with organic tissue like a terminator" is six of one, half a dozen of the other.

 

It would only become an issue as they make use of her state in stories after defining it.

 

 

ETA: If you get to debate it, I do, too - they ate organic food and required breathing in season one, indicating their bodies were composed partially from organic matter.

 

Transmetal 2 tech might be a different blending of organic and technology, but they integrated the two from the beginning of the series.

I'm just saying it all sounds really nitpicky. To me, for the purposes of speculating on her secret, "technorganic creature", "cyborg", or "robot with organic tissue like a terminator" is six of one, half a dozen of the other.

 

It would only become an issue as they make use of her state in stories after defining it.

It's not at all nitpicky, and here's why: the fundamental question is, was Sari born or built? This whole thread was started on the premise that "OMG it would be this incredible story twist if it turned out that she's a robot." But if she's just a kid with nanobots in her, then how is that important enough to warrant even putting it in the story to begin with?

I'm just saying it all sounds really nitpicky. To me, for the purposes of speculating on her secret, "technorganic creature", "cyborg", or "robot with organic tissue like a terminator" is six of one, half a dozen of the other.

 

It would only become an issue as they make use of her state in stories after defining it.

It's not at all nitpicky, and here's why: the fundamental question is, was Sari born or built? This whole thread was started on the premise that "OMG it would be this incredible story twist if it turned out that she's a robot." But if she's just a kid with nanobots in her, then how is that important enough to warrant even putting it in the story to begin with?

Um...that's up to the writers to answer. I think the writers of this series are working from a very detailed outline and if she is part technology, I trust they have somewhere to take it...probably related to her father's possession of Megatron for forty years before she came along.

It all comes back to "nothing," though. We know now (thanks to "Headmaster") that Megatron was only able to survive without his body because it was still intact -- more importantly, his spark was still intact within it. We know that Cybertronian technology requires a spark for life. We know that Sumdac had no access to a spark during the 50 years he spent analyzing Megatron's technology. We know that Sumdac has no idea of how sparks work. We also know that his experiment with technorganic creatures ended in disaster. What, in all of this, gives any indication at all that he was able to "engineer" Sari at all? It's all assuming the conclusion -- all of it. There's a feeling that Sari is not what she seems to be (which is almost definitely true), but that certainly gives no indication that she is robotic. There's really nothing there to lead you in the "robot" direction, unless you already believe it to be true.

It all comes back to "nothing," though. We know now (thanks to "Headmaster") that Megatron was only able to survive without his body because it was still intact -- more importantly, his spark was still intact within it. We know that Cybertronian technology requires a spark for life. We know that Sumdac had no access to a spark during the 50 years he spent analyzing Megatron's technology. We know that Sumdac has no idea of how sparks work. We also know that his experiment with technorganic creatures ended in disaster. What, in all of this, gives any indication at all that he was able to "engineer" Sari at all? It's all assuming the conclusion -- all of it. There's a feeling that Sari is not what she seems to be (which is almost definitely true), but that certainly gives no indication that she is robotic. There's really nothing there to lead you in the "robot" direction, unless you already believe it to be true.

Well, what leads you to believe shes the result of cloning? There is even less evidence of any genetic engineering going on.

 

A) We know Sari is adopted.

B) We know Sari has no record of her birth or identity through any normal means (even a little girl turned into a cyborg would have a regular birth and a social security number).

C) We know her father and his competitors are engaged in the creation of robots.

D) We know Sari is interacting with the Allspark - an artifact not used to contact with organic creatures.

 

There are a thousand ways Sari could be at least partially technological without being actively created by Sumdac.

 

Sari could be an accident.

Sari could be a creation of Sumdac's passed on mentor.

Sari could be a discarded creation of one of Sumdac's competitors that Sumdac took in, able to see something in her that the competitor did not.

Sari could be a creation of Megatron's...I don't know, call it back-up systems or something...that came about while he was in a less "aware" state.

 

And, for the last time, I'm not claiming she has a spark, and nothing I've suggested she is would require her to have one. I am not concerned with the presence of a spark.

It all starts by assuming the conclusion, though. Like, "okay, how could this work out?" The burden isn't on me to prove anything, since the show itself sets Sari up as a human character. To claim that she actually *isn't* a human character requires evidence. I only suggested "clone" because it fits best with what we know to be true so far. I'm not married to the idea.

 

I'm also assuming that the writers don't pull out some retcon / deus ex machina and say "oh by the way, we failed to mention X Y Z that totally explains why she's a robot." Partially because that's a bullshit way to tell a story, but also because there really isn't evidence of her being robotic at all. The presence of mystery in her life (which I do not dispute) means nothing by itself.

 

P.S. no spark = not a living creature, that's why I keep going on about that. Sumdac's robots are drones. It could even be argued that Soundwave was/is nothing more than a more sentient drone, given his voice and lack of emotion and all (yes that's the G1 character, but I'm just thinking of how they repurpose G1 character traits for the show).

It all starts by assuming the conclusion, though. Like, "okay, how could this work out?" The burden isn't on me to prove anything, since the show itself sets Sari up as a human character. To claim that she actually *isn't* a human character requires evidence. I only suggested "clone" because it fits best with what we know to be true so far. I'm not married to the idea.

 

I'm also assuming that the writers don't pull out some retcon / deus ex machina and say "oh by the way, we failed to mention X Y Z that totally explains why she's a robot." Partially because that's a bullshot way to tell a story, but also because there really isn't evidence of her being robotic at all. The presence of mystery in her life (which I do not dispute) means nothing by itself.

Okay, but do you understand that I am making a guess as to what that mystery is. I don't assume the conclusion, I made a guess based on what the show gave me. This is the logic train of thought:

 

1) "Hey, Sari has mysterious origins."

2) "Oh? Hmmm...no one has any record of her birth...her dad makes robots...she communicates with an artifact from a robotic race of beings...maybe she's got some robotic origins!"

3) "NO YOU CAN'T SAY THAT BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE INDISPUTABLE PROOF! THE SPARK, THE SPAAAAAAAAARK!"

 

I mean, seriously, I won't be all "Sari was a robot!" if the show answers the mystery, ends, and never gives us any reason to think that she's anything other than human. I mean, I'm not claiming Chip Chase was a robot.

But now that I think about it, did you ever see him get out of that wheelchair? It's because his creator couldn't program the legs properly. He's actually bolted to the chair and his torso contains internal motors to work the wheels.

 

 

But that's the fun of the mystery being present in the show, you get to speculate and stuff until you know for sure. I think there is sufficient reason to believe the mystery of her life will be related to robotics. When and if the show tells me otherwise, fine - but until then, what, exactly, is wrong with the speculation?

 

I mean, damn, Pete, I'd hate to see how you react to a "Lost" message board.

Edit: Bob Saget, i put this in the wrong topic.

Redirected to a new thread :D

http://forums.TFormers.com/talk/index.php?showtopic=91140