Seriously, that scares me. I cannot believe there are people out there who think Decepticons aren't evil. I mean, it's like "WTF?" Hasbro's made it clear from Day 1 they're evil. It distubs me that people are actually trying to find a "Deeper" meaning to Transformers. I mean, some of the people I've encountered who try to debate this non-debatable point are trying to say "Oh, well in a real war, you're just representing your country, and you do what you have to do, there is no clearcut good and evil. The Decepticons not being evil gives it a sense of realism!"

 

Now that scares me, since people are trying to look for realism in a comic and cartoon about giant Transforming robots. That's like trying to find a television in an Amish community. Also, it's pretty obvious that Decepticons are a faction, not a "Country" or whatever. So this leads me to believe that the whole "Decepticons arent' evil" thing comes from 3 things:

 

1. People reading far too deep into something which ISN'T that deep or meaningful.

2. People looking for "Realism".

3. Insanity.

 

What do you guys think?

what scares me is that you are "disturbed" about a debate over toys and it actually bothers you that people are looking for something "meaningful" in a hobby they enjoy.

 

 

That being said - i get what you are saying - but I think the franchise is in that akward stage where a simple children's cartoon has inspired enough loyalty in its fans so that they still care as ADULTS... however as adults we expect the things that interest us to be a little more complex...

 

I have no problem with the franchise growing in complexity, and I do think that the Transformers universe can contain "meaning".

 

Heck - Hasbro started this trend with BW.

 

But you are right - the people who take the fandom (especially online) too seriously - are scary.

This thread needs more Tramp.

 

In all seriousness, has fans get older they tend to want deeper stories. A villain is more interesting if he has an actual reason for doing something beyond the whole "GRRRRRRR, I"M EVIL" approach. The same goes for the good guys. It becomes more interesting if they have faults.

 

I like it when things are gray instead of just Black and White.

It is funny how I can get so amazingly frustrated at fans over their dumb issues, and then I have to turn around and ask myself why I care so much.

Hahaha... if you ever want to see a hardcore pro-Decepticon POV, go visit Raksha's site. She's written copious essays on why she thinks the Decepticons are good yada yada yada.

 

The fact is that the Decepticons/Predacons/Vehicons fall into what is typically considered to be "evil" because most Decepticons/Predacons/Vehicons are either:

 

1/ Immoral - i.e.: they know the difference between right and wrong, but still choose to do what's wrong in spite of that. Immoral characters have morals - but they just choose to act on what they know is bad morality. Beast Wars Megatron and Darth Vader are good examples of an immoral character. Although Anakin Skywalker fell to the Dark Side of the Force, he always knew that what he was doing was wrong. After the death of Padmé, he thought "ah screw it, I got nothing else going for me now" and served the Emperor to fill the deep emotional void - but he always knew that what he was doing was wrong. Hence why Luke exploited the inner conflict within Vader which is how he managed to restore Anakin to the Light Side of the Force at the end of Return of the Jedi.

 

2/ Amoral - i.e.: they are utterly unaware or incapable of distinguishing between right and wrong, or they simply don't care. A moral character listens to their angel on their shoulder. The immoral character listens to their devil. An amoral character doesn't have an angel or devil on their shoulder. Whereas morality is more akin to utilitarian ethics (i.e.: the end does not justify the means), amorality is more akin to totalitarian ethics (i.e.: the end justifies the means) - which is what totalitarian dictatorships are based up e.g.: the Galactic Empire... Order 66 and maintaining a brutal oppressive state is justified because it creates order. Likewise in Beast Machines, Cybertron under Vehicon rule saw absolute enslavement of nearly the entire populace's Sparks, all forcibly removed in order to eliminate individual free will and thus create peace through tyranny. In both cases, the ends justifies the means as far as these dictators are concerned. Neither BM Megatron nor Emperor Palpatine consider themselves to be good or evil - as far as morals and ethics (good and evil) go, they don't give a damn. But in the eyes of others they are often judged as being evil.

 

The only way you could have a Decepticon/Predacon/Vehicon who's not evil would be to have one who is moral - i.e.: one who knows the difference between right and wrong and acts on what they think is the right thing to do. It doesn't mean that it is necessarily the right thing to do, but they believe that they are doing what is right. In other words, they're listening to their angel... they're angel may be totally fcuked up, but they're listening to them nonetheless.

 

Dinobot is a good example of a moral character. G1 Scorponok and Lord Zarak began as an amoral character - but after they binary bonded, Scorponok/Zarak eventually became a moral character.

Wow. It says it quite clearly in that world famous theme song:

 

The Transformers!

 

More than meets the eye!

 

Autobots rage their battle to destroy the EVIL forces of...

 

The Decepticons!

 

The Transformers!

 

Robots in disguise.

 

The Transformers!

 

More than meets the eye!

 

The Transformers!

 

Not to mention Hasbro marktets the Decepticons as the EVIL Decepticons as opposed to the HEROIC Autobots. And the Decepticons kill other beings, including each other, and are out to take over the universe. Decepticons who are not evil often have entire story arcs devoted to them just to set them apart from the others.

Yeah, exactly, man. And I've seen some of the things Raksha writes... That is one scary woman.

 

My issues as well with the "Megatron isn't evil",etc people, is that it's been made painfully apparent that over the years, Megatron and the Deceps in general ARE evil, and ones such as Skyfire, Blitzwing, Octane, etc, who aren't have left or joined the Autobots/Maximals/whatever. On the G1/G2/Beast Wars toys: EVIL Decepticon/Predacon, in the iDW Adverts for Megatron Origin, it says something about Evil is born, or something to that variety. Even the ACTIONS of Decepticons are clearly evil, such as Starscream and Soundwave slaughtering the Autobot Council.

I agree wholeheartedly, the Decepticons are evil. No doubt about that.

What I like to see, however, is a complexity to that evil.

 

Take a look at iDW's Megatron: Origins. No doubt Megatron and the rest of the 'Cons are evil, but they have actual motives behind their evil actions (well Megs does anyway). He's more then simply "I'm going to take over the universe because I'm evil!!! GRRR!!!"

He's evil because he takes immoral steps to achieve his goals.

 

But yeah, the Decepticons are indeed evil. There's no debating that.

How old are you Damolisher?

20.00