Hobbes, if you don't like the discussion, don't get involved. Besides, that source is relevant to this discussion.

Not to sound childish, but I posted in this thread before you. Technically I was involved in the discussion before you brought it up.

 

Seriously, though, other than this, is there still an open thread in which you've mentioned that sourcebook? If you'll link me to one, I promise to never complain about it again.

Check most of the kitbash threads, as well as the Brawl thread in the Movie forum. I bring up these sources when they are relevant to a particular discussion as evidence. I don't do it just to bring it up. I bring it up when I feel it is necessary to the discussion because it is irrefutable canon evidence.

I don't discard Sparks at all. They are the life force of a Cybertronian, without question. However, they don't reside in one part of the body according to canon. They infise the entire body. Yes, in Beast Machines, they can be drawn out from the chest—the heart—of a Transformer, but according to TF: More than Meets the Eye#8, it says, "The spark itself does not rest in any single, set segment of the robot; rather, it suffuses its entire being."

 

You put too much stock in that book.

 

The guys who wrote MTMTE need to rewatch Beast Wars Season 3. The Transmetal 2's, at least Cheetor, can be seen clearly holding their spark in one specific place within their bodies.

Tramp is not wrong to bring up info from a source book. However, those source books are mearly ONE of many TF canons. There is no one answer. I belive the portrail of sparks in BWBM clearly shows that sparks are the measure of TF life in that canon, and that they are those little flashy balls. MTMTE may have chosen to change this for its own reasons, but in doing so chose to contradict on screen TF lore. Comic continuity and TV continuity have allways been cousins at best.

 

Tramp has allways been a big fan of source books. To me they are just one source of many. Delination between them is a matter of preferance.

 

Tramp you go right on quoteing source books, but remember that not all of us hold them in the reverence you seem to, and we may not take such information as absolute. I don't adhere to your nanite theory(seems too robo wang for me), but I am interested to hear it. Technically we are just biological machines built in a very similer way. But thats my problem too. Feels to close. Also to my veiwing experiance it does not fit into the protoform spark model.

 

We watched them build the Dinobots, Arialbots, and Stunticons. No nanomachines there.

Tramp is not wrong to bring up info from a source book. However, those source books are mearly ONE of many TF canons. There is no one answer. I belive the portrail of sparks in BWBM clearly shows that sparks are the measure of TF life in that canon, and that they are those little flashy balls. MTMTE may have chosen to change this for its own reasons, but in doing so chose to contradict on screen TF lore. Comic continuity and TV continuity have allways been cousins at best.

 

Tramp has allways been a big fan of source books. To me they are just one source of many. Delination between them is a matter of preferance.

 

Tramp you go right on quoteing source books, but remember that not all of us hold them in the reverence you seem to, and we may not take such information as absolute. I don't adhere to your nanite theory(seems too robo wang for me), but I am interested to hear it. Technically we are just biological machines built in a very similer way. But thats my problem too. Feels to close. Also to my veiwing experiance it does not fit into the protoform spark model.

 

We watched them build the Dinobots, Arialbots, and Stunticons. No nanomachines there.

Well, actually, even the TFMtMtE shows a picture of the Spark with the same appearance as they look in Beast Wars and Beast Machines, so they didn't change anything in that regard. What we see when those sparks become visible is when they are removed from the body, in essence, terminating the Transformer and leaving an empty husk. So, what the spark is has not changed since the concept originated in Beast Wars, in neither appearance, nor function. My point was that while the spark is in the body, it doesn't reside in one location, but suffuses the entire body, possibly through the neural pathways. It is only when it leaves the body upon death (or when extracted, as in BM) that it takes the shape of a "flashy ball" of energy.

 

Now, while you may feel that it is "too close" to us, the physical sexual reproduction and combined physical and spark development of an actual child, works better from an evolutionary and scientific standpoint. All that is needed is a plug and a socket. It isn't any closer to us than any other land animal. If it were just the spark, then we wouldn't have Cybertronian children like Wheelie or the Decepticon children in the manga version of TF Victory. They would all have physically been adult in form, not small and child-like. It would also mean that destruction of the body, or brain case would not be fatal, since all they would need to do is transfer to a new body, and this just isn't the case. Starscream, with his indestructible spark and ability to posess others, is an abberation, not the norm.

The body is just as important as the spark.

Tramp is not wrong to bring up info from a source book. However, those source books are mearly ONE of many TF canons. There is no one answer. I belive the portrail of sparks in BWBM clearly shows that sparks are the measure of TF life in that canon, and that they are those little flashy balls. MTMTE may have chosen to change this for its own reasons, but in doing so chose to contradict on screen TF lore. Comic continuity and TV continuity have allways been cousins at best.

 

Tramp has allways been a big fan of source books. To me they are just one source of many. Delination between them is a matter of preferance.

 

Tramp you go right on quoteing source books, but remember that not all of us hold them in the reverence you seem to, and we may not take such information as absolute. I don't adhere to your nanite theory(seems too robo wang for me), but I am interested to hear it. Technically we are just biological machines built in a very similer way. But thats my problem too. Feels to close. Also to my veiwing experiance it does not fit into the protoform spark model.

 

We watched them build the Dinobots, Arialbots, and Stunticons. No nanomachines there.

Well, actually, even the TFMtMtE shows a picture of the Spark with the same appearance as they look in Beast Wars and Beast Machines, so they didn't change anything in that regard. What we see when those sparks become visible is when they are removed from the body, in essence, terminating the Transformer and leaving an empty husk. So, what the spark is has not changed since the concept originated in Beast Wars, in neither appearance, nor function. My point was that while the spark is in the body, it doesn't reside in one location, but suffuses the entire body, possibly through the neural pathways. It is only when it leaves the body upon death (or when extracted, as in BM) that it takes the shape of a "flashy ball" of energy.

 

Now, while you may feel that it is "too close" to us, the physical sexual reproduction and combined physical and spark development of an actual child, works better from an evolutionary and scientific standpoint. All that is needed is a plug and a socket. It isn't any closer to us than any other land animal. If it were just the spark, then we wouldn't have Cybertronian children like Wheelie or the Decepticon children in the manga version of TF Victory. They would all have physically been adult in form, not small and child-like. It would also mean that destruction of the body, or brain case would not be fatal, since all they would need to do is transfer to a new body, and this just isn't the case. Starscream, with his indestructible spark and ability to posess others, is an abberation, not the norm.

The body is just as important as the spark.

 

 

I'm sorry I just don't see your braincase argument at all. As for making more eveloutionary sense... only for our type of life. Which isn't to say it makes no sense for them just no particular sense. Not to mention that in the Primus or Quinteson Origin theories no evolution is required. I allways thought of wheely as a small TF not a child. I thought of Hot Rod as a new TF though.

Well, in the original Transformers the Movie (1986), When Wheelie hits him in the nose with a sling stone, Grimlock responds with "Why boy hit my nose?". Also in War and Piece, When Wheelie starts biting Optimus Prime to protect Gnaw, Prime responds by picking him up and saying " Enough you! Hasn't anyone ever told you to respect your elders?" just as if he were scolding a child. So, yes, Wheelie is a child; a young boy probably the equivalent of a 10 to 12 year old. Hot Rod is the equivalent of an 18 year old.

 

Secondly, according to TF: MtMtE #8 page 15, it states, "Any damage that affects the subject's neuro circuits is capable of destroying that Cybertronian permanently; the destruction of the brain casing is uniformly fatal—except in the case of an aberant spark." On page 52, under Sparks, below the subheading Further Exploration, it says, "While there is some debate, there are some notable cases of aberant sparks having strange qualities. The most popular cas is the infamous Decepticon Starscream, who purportedly had an indestructible spark that could not be extinguished, and could even possess other beings. Further research on the subject is currently proceeding."

 

And, for the record, the whole MtMtE compilation is lead into as research being done secretly on Vector Sigma's databases by none other than Beast Wars Megatron with Dinobot standing guard. In the opening pages of issue 1, two shadowy figures break into Vector Sigma, and at the end it is revealed who they are—BW Megatron and Dinobot. The whole six issues is the material BW Megatron is studying.

GOD MAKE IT STOP!!!!!!

Doomed from the start.

*bashes head on desk*

 

NOT AGAIN!!!

nobody cares

Alright, what warranted all this? I mean whatever each of us thinks about any of these subjects or how silly it is (I personally find the TF sex topics mildly amusing, if utterly ridiculous), let's just consider this:

 

For every poster who comes into this thread to bash the topic, there should justifiably be a movie hater going into any movie forum thread to bash the movie. (Except I'd say the latter case has more legitimacy because that's opinion on a TF product while this is just preemptive and disrespectful trashing of another forum member's thread.)

Oh don't worry, there's plenty of pointless bashing going on in the TF: Animated threads. Everyone's always justified in what they post, from their own point of view.

GOD MAKE IT STOP!!!!!!

Doomed from the start.

*bashes head on desk*

 

NOT AGAIN!!!

nobody cares

Alright, what warranted all this? I mean whatever each of us thinks about any of these subjects or how silly it is (I personally find the TF sex topics mildly amusing, if utterly ridiculous), let's just consider this:

 

For every poster who comes into this thread to bash the topic, there should justifiably be a movie hater going into any movie forum thread to bash the movie. (Except I'd say the latter case has more legitimacy because that's opinion on a TF product while this is just preemptive and disrespectful trashing of another forum member's thread.)

For once, we agree on something Glue.

 

To those people who do not like this topic, no one is making you read this thread nor any other that deals with this type of subject. so, if you don't want to be invlolved don't read the thread and don't post. It is that simple, but please let those who do want to discuss it do so.

 

Right both of you, my comment was a response to this double-post:

Bump. So there.

And I won't be told where to post by either of you. Stick to PM's if you don't want my input.