Sexe? Where are you getting that from?

COMPUTER ERROR!

 

Go back to INH. Mom and Dad are trying to talk.

 

Oh noes.

 

This to mean I do not agree. The issue is that... OOOOOO new emotes!

 

:07dance

 

:07evil

 

anyways... we can't personify this race as it is not like our own. There are no genders.

Let me put it like this:

 

Sexe: physical differentiation purely for reproduction. Male, female.

 

Gender: Established behavioural rolepattern for a specific sexe. Masculine, feminine

 

Rolepatterns: behavioural social role with which one identifies oneself. Protector, military, hunter, gatherer, spy, medic, etc.

 

 

Now, as I see it, Transformers have neither a sexe, nor a gender, for they do not reproduce sexually, and gender is a derivative of sexe. They have different rolepatterns, which in the terminology of Transformers are called "Functions". Optimus Prime, function: Autobot Supreme Commander. Ratchet, function: Medic. Rattrap, function: Spy. Etc.

The problem is though that canonically, TFs do have genders, whether you take that to mean behavioral or physical, makes no difference because you can't have behavioral genders without physical genders (sexes). You may or may not feel that they should, but they do.

 

Now, the only problem I have with Prime Collector's theory is that Cybertronians are physical beings. This is substanciated by the fact that even though they can take massive amounts of damage and still survive and recover fully in time, if their brain case is destroyed, they will die. It is universally fatal. The only example of a Transformer coming back from the dead after his brain case was destroyed is Starscream, who is said to have an abberant, indestructable spark. In essence, he is immortal and cannot be permanently slain. Much of what Transformers are made of is nanites, which is what allows them to heal. Nanites are analogous to biological cells. Given that techno-organic nature, they should, conceivably, be able to reproduce just like we do. So, if you have nanites that contain pieces of the "genetic" code from the male that combine with the appropriate nanite containing the orther half of the "genetic" code from the female, it stands to reason that the combination of the two would result in the growth and development of a new TF life. They used that same reasoning in the movie Batteries Not Included with the little "flying suacer" aliens, who were also mechanical life forms, including a mated pair.The female robot became pregnant by her mate, and gave birth to little baby "flying saucers"—baby robots. During her pregnancy, she consumed a large amount (for her size) of scrap metals and other raw materials which went into the development of her developing offspring, much like a pregnant human woman consumes more food than normal to feed her growing fetus.

GOD MAKE IT STOP!!!!!!

Doomed from the start.

*bashes head on desk*

 

NOT AGAIN!!!

nobody cares

Alright, what warranted all this? I mean whatever each of us thinks about any of these subjects or how silly it is (I personally find the TF sex topics mildly amusing, if utterly ridiculous), let's just consider this:

 

For every poster who comes into this thread to bash the topic, there should justifiably be a movie hater going into any movie forum thread to bash the movie. (Except I'd say the latter case has more legitimacy because that's opinion on a TF product while this is just preemptive and disrespectful trashing of another forum member's thread.)

GOD MAKE IT STOP!!!!!!

Doomed from the start.

*bashes head on desk*

 

NOT AGAIN!!!

nobody cares

Alright, what warranted all this? I mean whatever each of us thinks about any of these subjects or how silly it is (I personally find the TF sex topics mildly amusing, if utterly ridiculous), let's just consider this:

 

For every poster who comes into this thread to bash the topic, there should justifiably be a movie hater going into any movie forum thread to bash the movie. (Except I'd say the latter case has more legitimacy because that's opinion on a TF product while this is just preemptive and disrespectful trashing of another forum member's thread.)

For once, we agree on something Glue.

 

To those people who do not like this topic, no one is making you read this thread nor any other that deals with this type of subject. so, if you don't want to be invlolved don't read the thread and don't post. It is that simple, but please let those who do want to discuss it do so.

The problem is though that canonically, TFs do have genders, whether you take that to mean behavioral or physical, makes no difference because you can't have behavioral genders without physical genders (sexes). You may or may not feel that they should, but they do.

 

Now, the only problem I have with Prime Collector's theory is that Cybertronians are physical beings. This is substanciated by the fact that even though they can take massive amounts of damage and still survive and recover fully in time, if their brain case is destroyed, they will die. It is universally fatal. The only example of a Transformer coming back from the dead after his brain case was destroyed is Starscream, who is said to have an abberant, indestructable spark. In essence, he is immortal and cannot be permanently slain. Much of what Transformers are made of is nanites, which is what allows them to heal. Nanites are analogous to biological cells. Given that techno-organic nature, they should, conceivably, be able to reproduce just like we do. So, if you have nanites that contain pieces of the "genetic" code from the male that combine with the appropriate nanite containing the orther half of the "genetic" code from the female, it stands to reason that the combination of the two would result in the growth and development of a new TF life. They used that same reasoning in the movie Batteries Not Included with the little "flying suacer" aliens, who were also mechanical life forms, including a mated pair.The female robot became pregnant by her mate, and gave birth to little baby "flying saucers"—baby robots. During her pregnancy, she consumed a large amount (for her size) of scrap metals and other raw materials which went into the development of her developing offspring, much like a pregnant human woman consumes more food than normal to feed her growing fetus.

 

Thank you.

 

In the case of Starscream you even say it is the indstructability of his Spark that makes him immortal, or close to. Though I do seem to remember Omega Supreme needing his braincase powerd during repairs but it could have contained his spark. In another episode Megatron refers to the certain demise of Optimus Prime being the extinguishing of "his lazer core". I always thought maybe this was a quinteson term for spark that had endured. Then there is Dinobot, who dies from damage that his onbord computer warns him will cause "loss of spark". Rinoxes description of "great joy" when "a spark goes online" lends well to my theory. All of beast machines seem to indicate that the spark is the true unit of Transformer life.

 

Though I belive your notion is valid I prefer the BM/BW spark=life notion. I am not a fan of robot "birth" or of the cell division notion from the G2 comics. I've allways thought tfs had nanites, but I can't say I see nanite meiosis. Thats just a me thing though. I like the idea of them bing techno organic. For me thought that means bodies would be grown instead of built. Maybe the Plasma Energy chamber is like a robot incubator? Though maybe some are built as well, but they would be different. I also like that "male" tfs can carry offspring in my version.

 

Now that I'm thinking about it... doesn't Nightscream refer to having parents? In an early episode?

I believe he does, but don't quote me on that. I haven't seen Beast Machines in years. However, as far as the spark goes, that is basically the same thing as our souls. In essence it is the "life force", or life energy, which is unquantifiable, and fills the entire body, not just one component. "Spark" is just another name for it, as in "the spark of life".

As for growth in Transformers, that really isn't that much of a stretch either since Wheelie is a child, and in the manga version of Victory we have a significant number of chibi Decepticon children in the last issue. These are small, physically immature Cybertronian children, in child forms, not full adult forms. This means that they were still growing, so that does lend credence to them having been grown, not simply built. Therefore, using nanite meiosis, it is conceivable for a Cybertronian child to grow from a nanomachine "embryo" into a fully formed "infant" and grow into adulthood as the nanites form the metal "flesh and bones" (skelital superstructure, armor, intenal systems, etc.) from the raw materials its mother and, after it is born, the child itself, consume. It is the same cellular division that allows us to heal which allows us to grow. Since Transformers also heal through nanomacihe regeneration systems, it would make sense that those same systems are also responsible for growth and development.

I believe he does, but don't quote me on that. I haven't seen Beast Machines in years. However, as far as the spark goes, that is basically the same thing as our souls. In essence it is the "life force", or life energy, which is unquantifiable, and fills the entire body, not just one component. "Spark" is just another name for it, as in "the spark of life".

As for growth in Transformers, that really isn't that much of a stretch either since Wheelie is a child, and in the manga version of Victory we have a significant number of chibi Decepticon children in the last issue. These are small, physically immature Cybertronian children, in child forms, not full adult forms. This means that they were still growing, so that does lend credence to them having been grown, not simply built. Therefore, using nanite meiosis, it is conceivable for a Cybertronian child to grow from a nanomachine "embryo" into a fully formed "infant" and grow into adulthood as the nanites form the metal "flesh and bones" (skelital superstructure, armor, intenal systems, etc.) from the raw materials its mother and, after it is born, the child itself, consume. It is the same cellular division that allows us to heal which allows us to grow. Since Transformers also heal through nanomacihe regeneration systems, it would make sense that those same systems are also responsible for growth and development.

 

 

But Sparks aren't portraied that way at all. I think a rewatching of BM is in order before you dismiss the sparks so redily. Your nanite theory reminds me of Moya the ship in Farscape. Are you familler with Moya-Tallon thing?

I believe he does, but don't quote me on that. I haven't seen Beast Machines in years. However, as far as the spark goes, that is basically the same thing as our souls. In essence it is the "life force", or life energy, which is unquantifiable, and fills the entire body, not just one component. "Spark" is just another name for it, as in "the spark of life".

As for growth in Transformers, that really isn't that much of a stretch either since Wheelie is a child, and in the manga version of Victory we have a significant number of chibi Decepticon children in the last issue. These are small, physically immature Cybertronian children, in child forms, not full adult forms. This means that they were still growing, so that does lend credence to them having been grown, not simply built. Therefore, using nanite meiosis, it is conceivable for a Cybertronian child to grow from a nanomachine "embryo" into a fully formed "infant" and grow into adulthood as the nanites form the metal "flesh and bones" (skelital superstructure, armor, intenal systems, etc.) from the raw materials its mother and, after it is born, the child itself, consume. It is the same cellular division that allows us to heal which allows us to grow. Since Transformers also heal through nanomacihe regeneration systems, it would make sense that those same systems are also responsible for growth and development.

 

 

But Sparks aren't portraied that way at all. I think a rewatching of BM is in order before you dismiss the sparks so redily. Your nanite theory reminds me of Moya the ship in Farscape. Are you familler with Moya-Tallon thing?

I don't discard Sparks at all. They are the life force of a Cybertronian, without question. However, they don't reside in one part of the body according to canon. They infise the entire body. Yes, in Beast Machines, they can be drawn out from the chest—the heart—of a Transformer, but according to TF: More than Meets the Eye#8, it says, "The spark itself does not rest in any single, set segment of the robot; rather, it suffuses its entire being." Secondly, the spark doesn't exist first, even in a Transformer who grows from a protoform. The Spark isn't created until enough energy is infused into the body to allow the formation process to begin. This creates the new spark as well as the reformatting of body into a complete being, just like our souls don't exist until we are conceived and begin to develop.

 

So, basically, what I am saying is that reproduction is neither strictly physical or energy based, but rather both combined. Using sexual reproduction, the spark is created at the same time as the physical embryo is conceived and begins to grow, and thus is inherently just as much a part of that Transformer as any other part of his or her body.

 

As for the "Moya-Tallon" thing, I have no idea what that is.

Basically, to build on your theory when a male and female interface, when they mate, the nanomachine "gametes" (which each contain a cocktail of "genetic" code from each parent, including a piece of their spark) fuse, and the energy produced, along with additional energy from the mother initiates the creation of the new spark while simultaniously intitiating the physical growth and development of the new life.

Now you've done it. That stupid More Than Meets The Eye book ruins every conversation it enters...count to lock in 5, 4, 3, 2...