Party on, Garth.

 

I just wanted to post in this topic at some time, that's all.

:note BEAST WORLD, BEAST WORLD! PARRTY TIIME! EXCELLENT! :note

I guess I just don't get how someone could say the story "stinks". I mean.... does that mean you didn't like it, you didn't think it was well-written, the plot structure or story arc failed you in some way..... what exactly is it?

I guess I just don't get how someone could say the story "stinks". I mean.... does that mean you didn't like it, you didn't think it was well-written, the plot structure or story arc failed you in some way..... what exactly is it?

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It raped their childhood, tha's what.

It wasn't that bad of an interview.  I have no opinion on it really since I wasn't around the 'Net when BM was on, so I didn't see the massive outrage the show seemed to have caused.

 

BTW, it was great watching this show again.

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» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

quoted from the FAQs on bobskir.com:

 

What the freakin' heck was that!? I, like many of us old timers gave Beast Machines a chance. It had great potential in that it took place exclusively on cybertron as no other transformers series has. And the fact that you created this forum for the fans to express our thoughts directly to the team creating the show, I thought that you, of all people, would heed the suggestions and the warnings that we gave.

 

Now, while I understand that you do ultimately have to answer to Hasbro and that you didn't call all the shots on the show, I think that you still could have done something. Beast Machines flies in the face of everything that we grew up loving. First the characters aren't the giants that we loved, but that was fine, we accepted that. But now you have turned Cyberton into a glorified green house. It is the opinion of many of us out here in cyberspace that both the staff of the show and Hasbro no longer care what we long time fans of the transformers think despite this site you created.

 

It should show you how devoted we are when we continue to give a show that many of us out and out hate, chance after chance after chance. The only way to salvage the franchise is to follow Takara's lead and bring back the Autobots and eventually the Decepticons. It could be done very easily, we saw at the end of Beast Machines that Primal's spark left cybertron to join the matrix, which means that it is not on cybertron. You could start it off with our current heros or some new characters going off is search of the matrix and go from there.

 

You have much to make for Mr.Skir.

 

We fans are legion, and we are not happy.

 

That's one of the nice ones. If you really wanted to, you could browse bottalk.com to see if any of that mess is still up there. I couldn't be bothered personally (having to register = meh).

 

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you know what's really ironic? that he asked for the autobots and decepticons to be brought back, and we got RiD  :tflaugh1  we would've gotten TT if they STFU'd.

OWN GRAVE DIG'D!!!

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It never ceases to amaze how narrow and selective a viewpoint manages to come across on the various forums, particularly when Beast Machines and/or its aftermath is the subject.

 

I, for one, _was_ around when Beast Machines originally aired.  It was towards the tail end of my early involvement in the online fandom.  While I managed to miss most of the supposed bloodbath of BotTalk and other forums of the day, by no means was I oblivious to the show, the toy line, and either's implications.  Frankly, the suppositions that many fans, including you (see above), have made is simplistic and misleading.

 

When we asked for Autobots and Decepticons, I'm 100% sure I didn't ask for RiD or the Armadaverse.  From my recollections, there had been a pretty strong undercurrent pushing for a continuation of G1's universe and reissues since G2 disappeared.  That's reflected in much of the early buzz for Armada, when people were speculating on, among other things, G1 cameos in the opening theme.  The Commemorative Series' eventual cancellation, after a surprisingly good run despite its late arrival, early shortages, high prices, and ignored opportunities, was nothing less than negligence if not sabotage.

 

Secondly, I'm absolutely _ecstatic_ we didn't get Transtech.  In my opinion, it was little more than an attempt to pervert vehicular G1 characters in the same way Beast Machines perverted the organic nature of Beast Wars.  The furor over it reminds me of something another fan (I wish I could recall exactly who to credit) posted months ago, that the line certain people purport to want would probably destroy the brand.

 

Undoubtedly some people are going to take offense, but the simple fact is that I spend money on this hobby.  I bought many of the reissues upon release and imported Binaltech while the "I want this esoteric/controversial product" people cried that basics rose $1 between BM and Energon.  I bought doubles of many Alternators while "I can count mine on 1 hand" types tossed around ideas like BW/BM characters or Megatron as a Ram repaint or whatever ill-conceived ideas were popular at the moment.  I bought new molds in Energon while Universe, with it's beloved (ugly, repetitive) repaints, withered away to nothing.

 

My point is not to brag or deride, but to illustrate that Transtech would've lost my actual sale(s) on the mere promise of others.  Interestingly enough, I view Cybertron as a more balanced successor to Transtech (G1 beasts + Energon + Transtech to be precise).  My consumption's been way down; lo and behold they'd been 2-pack discounted a number of places here by Christmas (so soon?).

 

To get back on topic, I wasn't a fan of Beast Machines.  It tossed alot of what I liked about Beast Wars: the characters and the episodic content.  Then there were the hideous designs, "sprituality", organic Cybertron, repetitve running away from Vehicons, etc.  By the time it'd hit the (in retrospect) better 2nd season, I had found other things to do with my time.

 

On the other hand, it never felt insulting, plodding, or cliche in the same way the Armadaverse has at almost every turn.  It's the only TF series I can look at and say that it's mechanically sound but I just didn't like it.  So for all the animosity over the result of Hasbro's explicit instructions, I can give Bob Skir and his staff credit for trying.  Looking back, his site and involvement was pretty brave too :/

I guess I just don't get how someone could say the story "stinks". I mean.... does that mean you didn't like it, you didn't think it was well-written, the plot structure or story arc failed you in some way..... what exactly is it?

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On a purely technical level, the animation, the voice acting, etc, Beast Machines is a good show.  What I don't like is it's whole concept, a concept that Bob Skir himself disagreed with.  The whole "nature vs. technology" idea of the show is just such an insult.  It just screams, "commitee thinking".  This is the same kind of crap that Hasbro pulled with the G.I. Joe line back in the early '90s, with their Eco-Warriors line.

 

Beast Machines says that everything about Transformers has been wrong.  The, what could be considered normal, Transformer, Megatron, is also the evil one.  The heroes are not Transformers, they're not even their Beast Wars selves.  Then there is also the idea that Cybertron was not only an ordinary planet way back when, but that it would then be a good idea if it were an organic planet again.  So, basically, by the end of the series, Cybertron is pretty much an ordinary, run of the mill, class M planet and the Maximals are now just ordinary aliens.  The idea that they would lose that which was unique to them in order to bow to some "new age" hippie crap, is just plain wrong. 

I guess I just don't get how someone could say the story "stinks". I mean.... does that mean you didn't like it, you didn't think it was well-written, the plot structure or story arc failed you in some way..... what exactly is it?

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What I don't like is it's whole concept, a concept that Bob Skir himself disagreed with.  The whole "nature vs. technology" idea of the show is just such an insult.  It just screams, "commitee thinking".

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You do realise that no matter what you say, some are going to read that as "I love G1 and BM raped my childhood..." :roll

 

BM was well written, probably the best Transformers series out there in that sense, but that seems to have convinced some fanboys that it was therefore perfect and the only possible reason it couldn't be liked is if the viewer watches it with prejudiced eye of some kind.

Beast Machines says that everything about Transformers has been wrong.  The, what could be considered normal, Transformer, Megatron, is also the evil one.  The heroes are not Transformers, they're not even their Beast Wars selves.  Then there is also the idea that Cybertron was not only an ordinary planet way back when, but that it would then be a good idea if it were an organic planet again.  So, basically, by the end of the series, Cybertron is pretty much an ordinary, run of the mill, class M planet and the Maximals are now just ordinary aliens.  The idea that they would lose that which was unique to them in order to bow to some "new age" hippie crap, is just plain wrong. 

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For me, I saw Beast Machines as an evolution...and that there's nothing wrong with what G1 was about. G1 was a time period in the Transformers timeline. It's simply a progression. The Transformers evolved into a techno-organic race - a blend between the two. They nor the planet ever became 100% organic.

Most critiques I've heard about BM center around things that were changed from G1 or BW or both. I don't think that's really addressing the substance of the show, since the main reason for a new Transformers series is NOT to provide a link to past Transformers series. I would just like to hear someone talk about the story on its own merits, starting from the first episode of BM, NOT starting from the first episode of G1. Fanwanking stuff like the key to Vector Sigma etc. is great and all, but it's not what the story is primarily about, nor should it be.

Most critiques I've heard about BM center around things that were changed from G1 or BW or both. I don't think that's really addressing the substance of the show, since the main reason for a new Transformers series is NOT to provide a link to past Transformers series. I would just like to hear someone talk about the story on its own merits, starting from the first episode of BM, NOT starting from the first episode of G1. Fanwanking stuff like the key to Vector Sigma etc. is great and all, but it's not what the story is primarily about, nor should it be.

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That's the thing.

 

BW-complainists tend not to have as many issues with A/E/C as it's so obviously an "alternate universe"; but since BM is considered a follow-on to BW and by extension, G1, it gets thought of in a different light, which makes some G1-fans uncomfortable.