Putting aside G1, I primarily don't like Beast Machines because I'm a Beast Wars fan.

I think Beast Wars is great too. I remember the first time I saw it, I was like "holy crap, this is entertaining w/o being so cheesy I want to die". I got totally sucked in as the story progressed to seasons 2 and 3. The characters were great, the music was great, the tone had just the right balance, and so on. It was just really well done.

 

Beast Machines appealed to me on a more personal level, though. The only word I can think of to describe the difference in appeal is "artistry". I've never seen a Transformers show before where I was like "wow, look at the lighting / camera angle in that shot." That kind of thing was totally unexpected, and just blew me away. I also liked the fact that each character was given something to struggle through, and it was individualized for each character. From a story perspective, I liked that Primal was basically misguided for the entire first half of the series. That was daring, and I thought it made the character more vulnerable and ...well, human. I loved the duality within Megatron and how he fought against it. I loved that the show was dark, and that there wasn't always a happy ending for the characters. Most of all, I love that the show was conceived as a single story from the beginning, and that they knew exactly where they were going the whole time. That focus really gave the story momentum and purpose. And the ending just blew me away. That entire final episode is amazing to me on so many levels.

 

but all of that is just how it hit me. I could see how people would react badly to it if they're expecting something more Beast Wars-ish.

I think Beast Wars is great too. I remember the first time I saw it, I was like "holy crap, this is entertaining w/o being so cheesy I want to die". I got totally sucked in as the story progressed to seasons 2 and 3. The characters were great, the music was great, the tone had just the right balance, and so on. It was just really well done.

 

Beast Machines appealed to me on a more personal level, though. The only word I can think of to describe the difference in appeal is "artistry". I've never seen a Transformers show before where I was like "wow, look at the lighting / camera angle in that shot." That kind of thing was totally unexpected, and just blew me away. I also liked the fact that each character was given something to struggle through, and it was individualized for each character. From a story perspective, I liked that Primal was basically misguided for the entire first half of the series. That was daring, and I thought it made the character more vulnerable and ...well, human. I loved the duality within Megatron and how he fought against it. I loved that the show was dark, and that there wasn't always a happy ending for the characters. Most of all, I love that the show was conceived as a single story from the beginning, and that they knew exactly where they were going the whole time. That focus really gave the story momentum and purpose. And the ending just blew me away. That entire final episode is amazing to me on so many levels.

 

but all of that is just how it hit me. I could see how people would react badly to it if they're expecting something more Beast Wars-ish.

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You're mentioning all of the technical stuff that I agree with.  I had already read about BM before it started, so I wasn't expecting it to look like Beast Wars.  I did give the show a chance and I did watch the whole series when it originally ran, but I just don't like the show and that's all. 

since the main reason for a new Transformers series is NOT to provide a link to past Transformers series.

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Since when?

 

The main reason for a new Transformers series is to sell a new line of Transformers.

 

G1 actually consists of multiple lines by today's standards.

Each new gimmick was the equivalent of Mini-cons or force chips.

We had more than one Optimus, we had totally new leaders altogether, we had evreything multiple lines have.

Only difference is the fact they spent the first 11 years of Transformers doing the opposite of what you say, linking each new Transformers series to the previous.

 

Even when G2 came out, they ran the G1 show, the comic picked up G1 continuity.

It was only when that didn't work that they finally tried something new.

And as soon as it was obvious the old wasn't harmful but a plus, the new shows were retconned in.

And of course, the US inked A/E/C too.

 

The point is that you may like a new series to be something new and unconnected, but that's not the point of Transformers as given to us by Hasbro, it never has been.

It is to stick with what works and makes money, to change only when it's financially harmful not to.

 

Most critiques I've heard about BM center around things that were changed from G1 or BW or both. I don't think that's really addressing the substance of the show, since the main reason for a new Transformers series is NOT to provide a link to past Transformers series. I would just like to hear someone talk about the story on its own merits, starting from the first episode of BM, NOT starting from the first episode of G1. Fanwanking stuff like the key to Vector Sigma etc. is great and all, but it's not what the story is primarily about, nor should it be.

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The reason movies and TV shows advertise themselves with "from the director of.." or "from the animation team behind..." is because the names deliver and have come to represent certain qualities that attract certain people.

And names of shows and similar become famous for having certain qualities too.

 

For instance, the things that draw certain people to sci-fi such as Star Trek aren't likely to be remotely similar to things that draw certain people to sitcoms like Friends.

And just like the "director of" comments, carrying a or associating yourself with a name is suggesting you have certain qualities and making yourself attractive to a particular group of people or existing fanbase.

 

So, lets say I develop an idea, a story about a bunch of people who are genetically experimented on and deliberately given microchips that give them superhuman abilities.

It will be judged on it's own merits.

But if I take the same story and add the tag X-Men to it, it is going to be judged by X-men's standards, because the name is bigger than the story.

 

If you are associated with something bigger than you, you are associated with it, it boosts you and limits you at the same time, and pretty much every writer knows this is going to happen when they enter into it.

If they don't want their work judged as a part of something more, they don't associate it with that name in the first place.

It's that simple.

Marketing toys is a mixture of brand recognition and providing something fresh. A perfect example of this is Power Rangers, which resets itself every year or so. It's still "Power Rangers" and they keep the same conventions between series (dudes in spandex, giant robots, etc.), but each series has a different angle. A different take on the concept.

 

This is exactly what Hasbro did with Generation 2 (though they never developed a TV show for it) and subsequently for Beast Wars. And it's what they wanted to do with Beast Machines. They had marketed Beast Wars for four years, and while the series and toys had been extremely popular, interest had been waning in its final season. So Hasbro wanted a fresh take on the Transformers concept. And that's what they got.

 

The problem with fans is that they forget that there was once a time when they didn't know about their now-favorite property. They grab hold of it and start to believe that it belongs to them, and that nobody else can have it. Any changes to the property must meet with their approval or they will be rejected. All of this is completely insular and ...well, ignorant. Of course Hasbro wants to make longtime fans happy, but their primary concern is always bringing in new fans. When you're running a large toy company, you've got to have that focus. It's just common sense.

Marketing toys is a mixture of brand recognition and providing something fresh. A perfect example of this is Power Rangers, which resets itself every year or so. It's still "Power Rangers" and they keep the same conventions between series (dudes in spandex, giant robots, etc.), but each series has a different angle. A different take on the concept.

 

This is exactly what Hasbro did with Generation 2 (though they never developed a TV show for it) and subsequently for Beast Wars. And it's what they wanted to do with Beast Machines. They had marketed Beast Wars for four years, and while the series and toys had been extremely popular, interest had been waning in its final season. So Hasbro wanted a fresh take on the Transformers concept. And that's what they got.

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I agree that they should and do provide something fresh, but something fresh does not mean "an unconnected show".

 

You mentioned Power Rangers.

 

In the west, Mighty Morphin', Zeo, Turbo, In Space and Lost Galaxy, (didn't watch the rest until I saw some of Dino Thunder) were all fresh starts.

But they were all one continuity, they were very much connected, with old Rangers frequently popping up or crossing over.

It was, in reality just one long story, with new generations taking over.

Just like G1.

 

As I said, in G1 there were several A/E/C style restarts, fresh persepctives, new angles.

It's just that back then they didn't relaunch the line with a new subtitle every time they did it.

And although you seem to see G2 as different, they stuck the G1 show on again to generate interest in the product and the the comic was there to push toys too.

And it was a direct continuation of G1, so officially Hasbro were again using the same continuity to sell the toys.

 

From an advertising point, they advertised 11 years of toys, countless gimmicks, all through one ongoing continuity.

They just replaced "new continuity" with "new story arc" ever so often.

 

Do you honestly believe that, after 11 years of sticking to one continuity, after multiple chances to try something new, be creative (the Japanese had), that Hasbro would have given us a fresh start if they could help it?

 

I don't buy that for a second.

 

Especially when you see how desperately they tried to fit Cybertron in with Armada and Energon.

They built Transformers by playing it safe, as soon as they could afford to, they returned to playing it safe.

If you really expect more, you're giving Hasbro way too much credit.

The problem with fans is that they forget that there was once a time when they didn't know about their now-favorite property. They grab hold of it and start to believe that it belongs to them, and that nobody else can have it. Any changes to the property must meet with their approval or they will be rejected. All of this is completely insular and ...well, ignorant.

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This I agree with and never defended.

 

I just said that seeing a Transformers story as a Transformers story is not going to that extreme, seeing a sequel to Beast Wars as a sequel to Beast Wars is not going to that extreme, seeing it as a continuation of the G1 universe is not going to that extreme, because that is how they presented it to us.

 

And not liking it for the way it plays with those continuities is not what makes people unreasonable fanboys.

It's the intensity of the feeling and ridiculous reactions that make for the peopele you mention.

Do you honestly believe that, after 11 years of sticking to one continuity, after multiple chances to try something new, be creative (the Japanese had), that Hasbro would have given us a fresh start if they could help it?

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Watch Bob Skir's interview on the BM DVDs.

Beast Machines >>>>>>>>>>>>>> All Power Rangers ...ever. Otherwise, I wouldn't be here.

And I also found it weird that folks that were so into TRANSFORMERS were opposed to CHANGE.

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This is the most awesome quote. EVER!!! :thumb

Power Rangers sucks ass.  Even though it started in this country at a time when my toy interest as a kid was waning, I still never like the show.  I thought it was just plain stupid.