I tihnk of all fothem as Transformers... but Transformers has been shown to have many different faces. each new face is a new series of comic books or TV shows. if one series is meant to continue another, so be it, but it's still a new series, still a new face. It is both Transformers AND itself, if that makes any sense.

When I think "Transformers" I think of this:

 

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Funnily, when I see that I think of generation one.

When I think of Transformers, I think of G1, G2, Beast Wars, Beast Machines, Robots in Disguise, Armada, Energon and Cybertron.

I just want to make sure we're understanding one another. When I say "fresh take" I don't mean abandoning everything that makes Transformers what it is. I just mean approaching it from a different perspective, giving us something we haven't seen before.

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Okay, a couple of times you mentioned fresh take and not being tied to old shows in the same sentence, so I did missunderstand. My bad.

"The Transformers" was a TV show that aired from 1984 to 1987. Period. Beast Wars is just that, "Beast Wars". It is only "Transformers" second. Look at the title screen, you'll see BEAST WARS in huge letters and TRANSFORMERS in teeny letters underneath. That's not an accident. (Indeed this is exactly what Forward and DiTillio say on the BW season 1 DVD.)

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I mentioned elsewhere that I saw that with the toys too, and always credited Beast Wars with making a name for itself.

 

But back then I think that attaching Transformers to anything would have been counterproductive, at least in the eyes of statistics.

And I read something back then that basically said that that was why Hasbro distanced themselves from Transformers and everything it encompassed, hence my view that as a company they'll only really change when it will cost them not to.

 

But I do think that as soon as Hasbro realised the G1 nods they deliberately pushed the G1 connection.

 

And as Beast Machines started maintaining connections to both (it's very name suggested trukk and munky if you get me), I'm just less able to see it as a seperate entity than I am Beast Wars.

 

Skir mentions repeatedly that Hasbro wanted a fresh take on the Transformers. It was their idea to go "spiritual", and Skir was like "okay let's see how far I can push this before Hasbro pushes back." Hasbro never pushed back. This is consistent with statements he's made on bobskir.com.

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Okay, I'll accept that but say that I don't consider that as Hasbro wanting to try something new.

 

Remember that, although fans of comic and show were into two seperate continuities, to Hasbro it was the same thing, an advert.

The US comic suffered terribly for it's stupid stories, but that was because, like the cartoon, they were required to feature the latest toys and push them.

 

In the UK however, the restrictions weren't as limiting.

As soon as they got a chance, the origin of the Tranformers was re-told, Primus and Unicron were gods, Transformers took on a much more religious aspect, and through that a spiritual take that lasted for the remaining 180 issues, and is still evident today.

 

So I guess it's all about persepctive.

Was it really Hasbro wanting to try something new or were they hoping to recreate in the Beast era what Furman and his boys did in G1?

 

Sure it's fun to see the G1 references in BW and BM, but I prefer to watch these shows on their own terms, each as its own series, because I believe that's the way they were intended to be viewed.

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As I said, the name is bigger than the story and it's writers.

That's not a stating of preference, just of how it is and always has been.

This is why a writer who is attacked for changing something often says he's "shocked by the scale of the backlash", or similar, not shocked by the backlash itself.

 

Unless of course you're someone like Frank Miller who's stories are Frank Miller stories first and the name they're attached to second.

Something he's earnt by delivering stories that are bigger than the name.

 

Skir is no Miller, so either he was completely unaware of how it is in anything with a fandom and continuity, so arrogant he believed he could do what no other writer has done before, or he wrote it to be viewed on several levels; as a stand alone, through the eyes of a geewunner or a Beast Wars fan, but refused to let that dictate to him, choosing instead to dictate to it.

If that is the case, it means that everyone has watched it as it's meant to be watched in one way or another.

 

Try watching it through G1 eyes sometime, it doesn't detract from the show (unless you dislike the changes), you still see it for what it is and it actually adds a lot of depth on different levels.

4 things I hate about BM

1. They killed off one of my all time favorite charcters

2. No toys for 2 of the main characters

3. Not enough charcters

4. The ppl who Starscream abot the show, most of you who are complaing seem like you have never watched it or just watched the first few episodes

 

I always placed BM in third as my favorite series but now that I have had a chance to watch it again it has easily become my favorite. IMO its the only TFormers series with more focus on story than on selling toys.

 

BTW in G1, why would they have a weapon that changes organics in to metal if there was never any organics on Cyberton? 

4 things I hate about BM

1. They killed off one of my all time favorite charcters

2. No toys for 2 of the main characters

3. Not enough charcters

4. The ppl who bitch abot the show, most of you who are complaing seem like you have never watched it or just watched the first few episodes

 

I always placed BM in third as my favorite series but now that I have had a chance to watch it again it has easily become my favorite. IMO its the only TFormers series with more focus on story than on selling toys.

 

BTW in G1, why would they have a weapon that changes organics in to metal if there was never any organics on Cyberton? 

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In "The Key To Vector Sigma", it is mentioned that the key may have a 'radically different effect' on Earth than on Cybertron. You could retcon that statement if you wanted to (the effect would have been 'radically different' because there were no known organics on Cybertron at that time), but the original intent with the G1 episode is that the key acts differently when it's on Earth as opposed to Cybertron.

 

P.S. *everyone* dies in BM. Some more than once. ;)

I'm talking about the one that don't come back (except in issue 3 of TF Universe)

 

What did the key do on Cybertron in G1, did they ever say? I'd watch the episode myself but my eyes hurt after watching G1 episodes

basically the same thing that it did in BMac.  Only reason it didn't do it on Cybertron in G1 was because at the time, the organics of the planet were completely supressed.

I'm talking about the one that don't come back (except in issue 3 of TF Universe)

 

What did the key do on Cybertron in G1, did they ever say? I'd watch the episode myself but my eyes hurt after watching G1 episodes

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On Cybertron, the key merely activated Vector Sigma . . . (or at least, that's what we thought it merely did . . .)

I'm talking about the one that don't come back (except in issue 3 of TF Universe)

 

What did the key do on Cybertron in G1, did they ever say? I'd watch the episode myself but my eyes hurt after watching G1 episodes

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On Cybertron, the key merely activated Vector Sigma . . . (or at least, that's what we thought it merely did . . .)

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It also unlocks the doors, and remotely starts most Autobots. :tflaugh

I think I'm going to be the first one to say this, but I *liked* the spiritual newage-ishness in BM. I, personally, would of done a little tweaks here and there to suit my over all feelings about BM as a story.. it really wasn't until comming here that I learned how megs did everything he did.. but I would of liked that explained in the show's context.. in a bold print.. as well as his general hate towards organics.

 

I really need to track this set down.. I need a refresher.. :redface

I'm with ya, Galzy, I dug the spiritual bent of the show.