It's turtles all the way down!

 

OK, I guess that 'joke' needs some explanation. If someone created a god, then who in turn created the creator? And who created him? It's similar to how people used to think about how the Earth was shaped. Like in Discworld, they used to believe the Earth was a disk, which stood on 4 elephants, which in turn stood on the back of a turtle. But what is the turtle standing on? Well, it's turtles all the way down! Asking who created a god is pointless, because it starts an endless line of causes, without a first cause. That's why the tought of having only one ultimate god, one single First Cause, or Unmoving Mover is so attractive, because it eliminates that problem.

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:lol I got it, but I heard a diferent story

The most widely known version today appears in Stephen Hawking's 1988 book A Brief History of Time, which begins with an anecdote about an encounter between a scientist and an old lady:

 

    A well-known scientist (some say it was Bertrand Russell) once gave a public lecture on astronomy. He described how the Earth orbits around the sun and how the sun, in turn, orbits around the centre of a vast collection of stars called our galaxy.

 

    At the end of the lecture, a little old lady at the back of the room got up and said: "What you have told us is rubbish. The world is really a flat plate supported on the back of a giant tortoise."

 

    The scientist gave a superior smile before replying, "What is the tortoise standing on?"

 

    "You're very clever, young man, very clever," said the old lady. "But it's turtles all the way down."

So what Goki is trying to say is that all modern day religions are sects of Transformerism?

Holy Scientology, Batman!!

On the brothers part.In R.I.D Optimus said that Ultra Magnus was his brother.

So what Goki is trying to say is that all modern day religions are sects of Transformerism?

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*thinks we should start a new movement at illuminatus*

 

I tend to only take the cartoon as cannon, so for me it looks like Primacron created Unicron.

 

Little munky bastard.

Les Claypool is the creator of Primus.

Les Claypool is the creator of Primus.

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Yes he did. :lol

Les Claypool is the creator of Primus.

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Yes he did. :lol

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:pfx  :lol  :lol  :pfx

So who created the One, the Creator, the Allspark, or whatever you call it? Chew on that!  :tflaugh1

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He was created with the Universe, which came into being due to some unexplainable event that occured prior to time/space as we know it, so we can never fathom its existance anyway.

 

done.

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That goes against the scientific law of non contradiction. If there was absolutely nothing then what initiated the "big bang". Then it would never have occured. In order for any thing to occur then there has to be something to originate that occurance. Thus the reason that God must be an eternal being. He is what is known as a necissary being. He has to exist because if He doesn`t exist then nothing else does. We are temporal beings we have a beginning. How ever In the beginninig God created the heavens and the earth. So if Unicron and Primus did exist in reality then their creator would be God just as the rest of us. Then the reason for Unicron`s corruption would be Satan`s influence.

So who created the One, the Creator, the Allspark, or whatever you call it? Chew on that!  :tflaugh1

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He was created with the Universe, which came into being due to some unexplainable event that occured prior to time/space as we know it, so we can never fathom its existance anyway.

 

done.

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That goes against the scientific law of non contradiction. If there was absolutely nothing then what initiated the "big bang". Then it would never have occured. In order for any thing to occur then there has to be something to originate that occurance. Thus the reason that God must be an eternal being. He is what is known as a necissary being. He has to exist because if He doesn`t exist then nothing else does. We are temporal beings we have a beginning. How ever In the beginninig God created the heavens and the earth. So if Unicron and Primus did exist in reality then their creator would be God just as the rest of us. Then the reason for Unicron`s corruption would be Satan`s influence.

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The (Judeo-Christianic-Islamic) God doesn't necessarily need to exist for the universe to exist. I mean, what if some strange interdimensional beings caused the Big Bang that birthed our universe as some funky science project? What if they are not even aware of our existance? Or what if they died eons ago? What's to say the creators of the universe are still alive? Don't be so naive to think that the Big Bang is enough to prove (or disprove) conclusively that your religion is true, because it's not. The truth is, we're not likely to ever truly know exactly what caused the Big Bang or what, if anything, happened before.

 

And trying to shoehorn religion, especially Christianity, Judiasm, or Islam, into the TF mythos is just silly. For one thing, Primus and Unicron are supposed to be gods. Wouldn't imply that the TF mythos aren't really compatible with the Bible or Quran?

Gyconi is right.