I don't think it's a retcon if the show contradicts a tech spec JMO

I never mentioned cross-continuity retconning - that would just be stupid like your Vice President.

 

The toy continuity has retconned the fact that gorilla Primal is not Optimus Prime; as all of Primal's tech specs since Transmetal Primal has aligned the Optimus Primal character with the character created in show continuity. In fact, even the previous gorilla Primal's tech specs does not specifically state that he is Optimus Prime (although it is mildly suggested). The only tech specs which clearly states that Primal = Prime is Convobat's tech specs, as well as Megalligator, where their specs actually state that they were once a semi-trailer truck and Walther P38 gun (Takara - the Hasbro specs never had real profiles written, just extended quotes).

 

In any case, when you look at the specs of Transmetal Primal and every Primal since, it's clearly been retconned that BW Primal is not Optimus Primal, as the toy continuity aligned itself with the show from 1998 until the end of BW (although the toy continuity was always more extensive, but shared the same core continuity).

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I don't think we disagree about that.

 

BTW no comment on the Vice President thing :tflaugh

Prime's Spark, via the Matrix, left a lasting change to Primal's body, but not his Spark. As soon as Prime's Spark was returned to Optimus Prime's body, Primal's Spark became himself again - including his voice returning to normal (Primal's voice became deeper and more booming whilst he carried Prime's Spark). So it stands to reason that Primal's Spark would also not have left any lasting impact on Prime's Spark -- again, if it had, the Vok would have come and handed Primal's arse back to him for messin' around with time/space. And again, there is nothing in Transformers canon, retcon or otherwise, that even remotely suggests that Prime had any knowledge of Optimus Primal.

 

 

:thumb I remember the booming voice thing and it makes sense.  I still don't think the Vok would have opened all kinds of whoop ass on Primal though.  Messing with the time stream clearly has nothing to do with protecting Primes spark.  I don't even think they would even have opened up a can even if Prime did keep Prime's spark. 

 

BTW  I remember that Beast Megs said "All you Optimus's are so predictable!"  How many Optimi did Cybertron go through after "The great war"? (Might be yet another topic) :tftongue

BTW  I remember that Beast Megs said "All you Optimus's are so predictable!"  How many Optimi did Cybertron go through after "The great war"? (Might be yet another topic) :tftongue

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He was probably referring to just the two.

I thought that the change from transmetal to optimal primal was caused by the immense power created by having two sparks in the one body not by any special ability held by either spark

I'm not asking if they are the same character, just if Primal's spark and essance stayed with Prime al all.  Primal's spark mingled with Prime's and I know that even though Primal returned Prime's spark to the Matrix of Leadership, he was forever changed body and spark.  How aware would Prime be about his encounter with Primal and the Maximals?  If I'm not mistaken, I think there were a few episodes where Prime was able to correspond with Alpha Trion wasn't there?

That was through The Matrix.

 

Primal wasn't transformed by Prime's Spark, but by the Matrix in which Prime's Spark was contained (yeah, it kinda messes up with continuity a bit, but that was because BW writers didn't fully understand the nature of the Matrix at the time they wrote that ep, so bear with it).

 

Prime's Spark, via the Matrix, left a lasting change to Primal's body, but not his Spark. As soon as Prime's Spark was returned to Optimus Prime's body, Primal's Spark became himself again - including his voice returning to normal (Primal's voice became deeper and more booming whilst he carried Prime's Spark). So it stands to reason that Primal's Spark would also not have left any lasting impact on Prime's Spark -- again, if it had, the Vok would have come and handed Primal's arse back to him for messin' around with time/space. And again, there is nothing in Transformers canon, retcon or otherwise, that even remotely suggests that Prime had any knowledge of Optimus Primal.

 

In fact, when Prime (G1 Convoy) meets Primal (Beast Convoy) in Robot Masters, he clearly has no idea who Primal is - of course, the two Convoys become allies, but G1 Convoy displays no prior knowledge or recollection of Beast Convoy.

 

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just thoguht i'd mention something. the writers of BW later said that the matrix in Prime was in fact a spark holder, and that Rhinox's comment abotu the spark having the matrix in it was incorrect or sometihng.

 

ive read, now i comment.

 

primal was changed when he took primes spark into his body because there was another spark in there, not because of the matrix. if you say the matrix was the cause of his mutation then there is no good explanation as to why megs turned into the dragon when he did the same. g1 megatron didnt have the matrix. or an equivelent. and primal did revert to normal in voice and mannerisms once he returned prime spark to his body. while megs voice didnt change, i think his mannerisms did. maybe it was his nature, maybe it wasnt, but he reffered to himself as a god a few times when he was the dragon carrying his namesakes spark.

 

but this isnt to say primal didnt get anything from prime during this other than the upgraded body. he did get the loose connection to the matrix via the oracle which we all know comes into play in bm.

ive read, now i comment.

 

primal was changed when he took primes spark into his body because there was another spark in there, not because of the matrix. if you say the matrix was the cause of his mutation then there is no good explanation as to why megs turned into the dragon when he did the same. g1 megatron didnt have the matrix. or an equivelent. and primal did revert to normal in voice and mannerisms once he returned prime spark to his body. while megs voice didnt change, i think his mannerisms did. maybe it was his nature, maybe it wasnt, but he reffered to himself as a god a few times when he was the dragon carrying his namesakes spark.

 

but this isnt to say primal didnt get anything from prime during this other than the upgraded body. he did get the loose connection to the matrix via the oracle which we all know comes into play in bm.

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i thoguht The Oracle contacted him and made the connection...

ive read, now i comment.

 

primal was changed when he took primes spark into his body because there was another spark in there, not because of the matrix. if you say the matrix was the cause of his mutation then there is no good explanation as to why megs turned into the dragon when he did the same. g1 megatron didnt have the matrix. or an equivelent. and primal did revert to normal in voice and mannerisms once he returned prime spark to his body. while megs voice didnt change, i think his mannerisms did. maybe it was his nature, maybe it wasnt, but he reffered to himself as a god a few times when he was the dragon carrying his namesakes spark.

 

but this isnt to say primal didnt get anything from prime during this other than the upgraded body. he did get the loose connection to the matrix via the oracle which we all know comes into play in bm.

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i thoguht The Oracle contacted him and made the connection...

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uhh. actually i dont know. i havent seen bm since it was on tv. i recall him saying he had a connection to the matrix cuz of what transpired on bw.. but i could be wrong.

just thoguht i'd mention something. the writers of BW later said that the matrix in Prime was in fact a spark holder, and that Rhinox's comment abotu the spark having the matrix in it was incorrect or sometihng.

Hmm.. yeah, that's true... Optimus Primal was transformed to Optimal Optimus because he held such a powerful Spark within his diminuitive Micromaster body. Same with Megatron's transformation to TM2 Megatron when he held G1 Megatron's Spark within his own body.

 

The reason why this happened was because the BW writers did not understand the true nature of the Matrix when they were writing Optimal Situation. They'd watched the Optimus Prime death scene from Transformers the Movie, but hadn't watched the entire movie or had enough exposure to other sources of G1 canon to realise what the Matrix really was. As a result, they assumed that the Matrix held Prime's Spark -- this is why the Matrix was empty after Prime's Spark transferred into Primal's body.

 

For better or worse, the writers had already set a precedent stating that powerful Transformer Sparks are able to permanently transform BW TFs into mightier forms - hence why the same concept was revisited when Megatron upgraded himself to his TM2 form.

 

I suppose it is for the better... if the Matrix had transformed Primal, then the Matrix would have become aware of it, and Optimus Prime could have become aware of Optimus Primal through the Matrix... whoa...

hence why the same concept was revisited when Megatron upgraded himself to his TM2 form.

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technically dragon megs wasnt a tm2 even though thats how he was marketed. neither was tigerhawk. nether of them used the tm2 driver or the tm2 chips to become what they were. they were just upgraded transmetal, like optimal. and to even call tigerhawk transmetal at all is a bit of a stretch. tigatron and airazor were not transmetal, so their combined form couldnt be transmetal, let alone tm2. it was just some vok crap.