1) explain

2)why?

1) explain

2)why?

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Primal took his name from Prime but the two characters are never identified as the same guy

 

ditto with Megatron

 

 

edit: oops I skipped #2

 

I think I just get my panties in a bunch when people act like G1 is this mythical holy grail thing that everyone in the world should and does bow down to....

 

sorry, I've *seen* the show

PEOPLE, PEOPLE! The question is "Was any knowledge shared between Primal and Prime when the former acted as surrogate host to the latter's spark? and if so, how much?"

 

My own personal opinion? watch the scene where Primal looks into Prime's face shortly after returning his spark. from the way the scene was done, i always took it to mean that the writers retconed it so that Prime did have knowledge of Primal but kept the whole thing secret so as to not disturb Primal's timeline.

PEOPLE, PEOPLE! The question is "Was any knowledge shared between Primal and Prime when the former acted as surrogate host to the latter's spark? and if so, how much?"

 

My own personal opinion? watch the scene where Primal looks into Prime's face shortly after returning his spark. from the way the scene was done, i always took it to mean that the writers retconed it so that Prime did have knowledge of Primal but kept the whole thing secret so as to not disturb Primal's timeline.

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You got all that from "a look"?

yeah since Prime is so friggin mythic and legendary and sh*t. I can just see Vector Sigma squatting extra hard when it pooped out his spark. "THIS ONE WILL BE SPECIAL, I JUST KNOW IT."

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:rofl

PEOPLE, PEOPLE! The question is "Was any knowledge shared between Primal and Prime when the former acted as surrogate host to the latter's spark? and if so, how much?"

 

My own personal opinion? watch the scene where Primal looks into Prime's face shortly after returning his spark. from the way the scene was done, i always took it to mean that the writers retconed it so that Prime did have knowledge of Primal but kept the whole thing secret so as to not disturb Primal's timeline.

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:schin

I was just thinking of Beast Wars and Primal and wondered, since Primal had to carry and protect Prime's Spark and was thus chanced by the influence of the Matrix, how much of Primal's influence was imprinted on Prime?  Does he even know or acknowledge that Primal existed?  The Matrix does hold the remnance of all the anchient Autobot leaders.  Can Prime delve deeep into the matrix to talk to any of the leaders at any time?  Would he have known that Primal was a part of him?

 

No.

 

It's as easy as that - no need to argue about this and that - the freakin' answer is no. There is nothing in G1 or G2 continuity, or even BW-G1 retcon, that suggests that Optimus Prime had any knowledge about the existence of Optimus Primal. Furthermore, if Optimus Primal's tampering with the Matrix did leave an imprint on Optimus Prime, you can bet your arse that the Vok would soon come and deal with Primal for messing around with time-space. When Tigerhawk arrived, his mission was to destroy Megatron for his attempt to alter time (although as the show pointed out, the Vok were unaware that Megatron was carrying G1 Megatron's Spark) - the Vok had no beef with Primal, which means that none of his actions have altered time.

 

My own personal opinion? watch the scene where Primal looks into Prime's face shortly after returning his spark. from the way the scene was done, i always took it to mean that the writers retconed it so that Prime did have knowledge of Primal but kept the whole thing secret so as to not disturb Primal's timeline.

There is nothing in Transformers canon to substantiate that theory. There's nothing to deny it either, but this is getting as silly as trying to scientifically validate the existence of God. It cannot be proven nor disproven, but as far as can be observed, it doesn't appear to exist. End of argument.

 

Anyway - i thought that "Prime" in BW was a Bat.

Only in toy continuity. In Beast Wars show continuity, Optimus Prime ceased to exist long before the Beast Wars. When the Great War ended with the signing of the Pax Cybertronian treatise, it was Rodimus who was the leader of the Autobots - with Springer as his close friend and adviser, although Springer was still leader of a new team of Wreckers (since the original Wreckers were disbanded after the Time Wars).

 

and that Munkyy-Prime was in no way related to G1 prime.

That's pretty much true. Early Hasbro tech specs suggested that even T-Rex Megs and gorilla Primal were reincarnations of G1 Megs and Prime, but both show and toy continuities have since retconned it otherwise and firmly established that they are not the same. Of course, the early BW tech specs also show BW as occuring on modern-day Earth... something else which has been canonically removed via the laws of retcon.

 

P.S.: Correction: Prime is related to Primal insofar as being Primal's ancestor, as established in Beast Machines. But otherwise, they are not the same character.

I don't think it's a retcon if the show contradicts a tech spec JMO

 

BTW that "look" is one of my favorite BW moments... but I wouldn't go reading too much into it beyond "hey it's like a G1 meets BW moment"....

I'm not asking if they are the same character, just if Primal's spark and essance stayed with Prime al all.  Primal's spark mingled with Prime's and I know that even though Primal returned Prime's spark to the Matrix of Leadership, he was forever changed body and spark.  How aware would Prime be about his encounter with Primal and the Maximals?  If I'm not mistaken, I think there were a few episodes where Prime was able to correspond with Alpha Trion wasn't there? 

Well I don't know that they ever really explained sparks in this much detail, but... I guess the question is, can sparks be influenced or changed by anything? After all, Blackarachnia was made into a Predacon by a "shell" program that filtered out the "good" parts of her Maximal self and magnified the "bad" parts (I'm speculating, but it was probably something like that). Her spark itself remained what it had always been. On the other hand, the Maximals speculated at one point in BM that Rhinox's spark may have been tampered with, which would indicate that it would be possible for sparks to be changed by outside forces, at least according to what they thought. (Of course Rhinox's spark ended up not having been altered, so who knows if they were right.)

 

So anyway, I guess what I'm getting to is this: Prime's spark would only have been influenced by Primal's if it were possible for that sort of thing to happen in the first place. I never got any indication from the show that Prime's spark remained an influence within Primal after it was returned to Prime's body; I don't see why the converse would be true then either.

 

And BTW this would also have to be true or not true for the two Megatrons, since BM Megs did the same thing with G1 Megatron's spark.

 

I like to think that BW Megs passed on to G1 Megs the tendency to dream up grandiose plans that would ultimately fail, thereby ensuring that G1 Megs would in fact lose the great war, precipitating BW Megatron's travel to prehistoric earth, and so on... :tftongue LOOP'D

I don't think it's a retcon if the show contradicts a tech spec JMO

I never mentioned cross-continuity retconning - that would just be stupid like your Vice President.

 

The toy continuity has retconned the fact that gorilla Primal is not Optimus Prime; as all of Primal's tech specs since Transmetal Primal has aligned the Optimus Primal character with the character created in show continuity. In fact, even the previous gorilla Primal's tech specs does not specifically state that he is Optimus Prime (although it is mildly suggested). The only tech specs which clearly states that Primal = Prime is Convobat's tech specs, as well as Megalligator, where their specs actually state that they were once a semi-trailer truck and Walther P38 gun (Takara - the Hasbro specs never had real profiles written, just extended quotes).

 

In any case, when you look at the specs of Transmetal Primal and every Primal since, it's clearly been retconned that BW Primal is not Optimus Primal, as the toy continuity aligned itself with the show from 1998 until the end of BW (although the toy continuity was always more extensive, but shared the same core continuity).

 

I'm not asking if they are the same character, just if Primal's spark and essance stayed with Prime al all.  Primal's spark mingled with Prime's and I know that even though Primal returned Prime's spark to the Matrix of Leadership, he was forever changed body and spark.  How aware would Prime be about his encounter with Primal and the Maximals?  If I'm not mistaken, I think there were a few episodes where Prime was able to correspond with Alpha Trion wasn't there?

That was through The Matrix.

 

Primal wasn't transformed by Prime's Spark, but by the Matrix in which Prime's Spark was contained (yeah, it kinda messes up with continuity a bit, but that was because BW writers didn't fully understand the nature of the Matrix at the time they wrote that ep, so bear with it).

 

Prime's Spark, via the Matrix, left a lasting change to Primal's body, but not his Spark. As soon as Prime's Spark was returned to Optimus Prime's body, Primal's Spark became himself again - including his voice returning to normal (Primal's voice became deeper and more booming whilst he carried Prime's Spark). So it stands to reason that Primal's Spark would also not have left any lasting impact on Prime's Spark -- again, if it had, the Vok would have come and handed Primal's arse back to him for messin' around with time/space. And again, there is nothing in Transformers canon, retcon or otherwise, that even remotely suggests that Prime had any knowledge of Optimus Primal.

 

In fact, when Prime (G1 Convoy) meets Primal (Beast Convoy) in Robot Masters, he clearly has no idea who Primal is - of course, the two Convoys become allies, but G1 Convoy displays no prior knowledge or recollection of Beast Convoy.