IT DOESN'T MATTER EVERYTHING HAS BEEN RETCONNED TO THE POINT OF ABSURDITY KTHX

Didn't the G1 Techspecs also refer to some semi-organicness to Cybertron?

 

Aoi

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Not as far as I know (for the NorAm tech specs, anyway.)

Transformers have always mimicked Organic life. Instead of cells and organs, they have pumps and Nanobots coursing through their energon tubes. Even back in G1 days Prime or some other character stated that thier body has already begun internal self repair. They even have digestive systems, Some more advance than others I'd assume. I would imagine that one of their pumps is able to create some type of acid that can break down the thoughest of elements and turn it into energon for the host. Remember that the Insecticons could eat organic foods and metals.

Another thing we found out with BW is that TFs have a seperate harddrive other than their own brain and that thier sparks also hold the character's personality. TFs arent fricking immortal. Not only can they replace their body parts or transfer to new bodies altogether but they have a definite after life, the Matrix. Once they go back to the Matrix their personality and knowledge is dispersed or kept whole. So any bot could potentially be born again at any time. Like when the arielbots were born and they knew their names already. Saying stuff like "I think my name is________"(I forget) Sort of like when Silverbolt on BW said the same thing.

I'm rambling so I'll stop now.

Now correct me if i am wrong but - in defense of Pretenders, Beast Bots, Beast Wars and Beast Machines

 

Werent Transformers ALWAYS supposed to be Technoorganic???

 

I mean the original G1 story basically said that when they crashed on Earth Teletran One scanned the surrounding area and "Mistook" the vehicles for sentient life.

So what would happen if Teletran 1 Was NOT a senile Volcano mashed up hunk of junk...

IF it had done its job correctly then G1-Transformers would have been:

Pretenders

Beast Wars type bots

 

ie:

TECHNO-ORGANIC

 

Thinking about this - an organic core to Cybertron is completely believeable.

and Even kinda adds an interesting twist to BM's Hatred of Organics....

 

Just a thought....

 

Hunter

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No because THE REASON Teletran mistook the vehicles for sentient life is because on cyberton SENTIENT LIFE is made up of mechanical beings.

IT DOESN'T MATTER EVERYTHING HAS BEEN RETCONNED TO THE POINT OF ABSURDITY KTHX

Of all the explanations in this thread, this is the one I find most accurate.

 

When it comes down to it, all the different "factions" of TF fandom accept the different continuities, explanations, and principles that they do because each group sees things in certain ways, and trying to persuade another group to not only stop seeing things their way but accept another has never been so easy as writing a thread on a net forum, hehe.

 

With all that disclaimed, all of the G1 I recall showed that transformers were only technological, artificially-created lifeforms.  They consume energy, in the form of energon.  The insecticons are still technological -- their ability to consume various other forms of energy or raw matter was pretty much a special ability gimmick (and their only one aside from cloning themselves).  Of course, even that is already reaching into the realm of fudged explanations, at least where the realities of a writer coming up with a half-hour plot for an episode are concerned.  I don't recall the G1 Ark searching for intelligent or sentient life.  I only recall it "exploring" and "repairing".  I'm pretty sure there are vehicles on Cybertron that are just vehicles and neither intelligent nor life, or else what are the transformer disguising themselves as?  Searching for something technological necessarily implies an intelligence somewhere that created it.  I never knew of any Pretenders portion of continuity so can't speak to that.

 

What I DID always find interesting for G1 though was that even in their native cybertronian forms, all of the vehicle alt modes seem to have cockpit or cabin areas for what would be humanoid-sized and shaped creatures.  So where are these humanoids?  All their bot modes, cybertronian or post-earth-landing, are humanoid (disgregarding Laserbeak, Ravage, and those bunch -- who knows what they were).  Their creators, the Quintessons, who were clearly not humanoid in form, created then as humanoid shaped robots without any such transformation capabilities.  Since Cybertron was a factory and there are clearly other spacefaring races (such as the Lithonians) who are reasonably aware of each other's existence, it seems entirely possible that the Quintessons took part in an interplanetary economy which included humanoid beings who were potential customers or at least models for the bot form.  The Nebulans (or however it's spelled) are both humanoid-shaped and human-sized.  Since Cybertronians invented their own transformation ability, where did Unicron gain his?  If from his creator Primacron, why would he have needed it if his sole function was to consume the universe?

 

Of course these're all questions the writers aren't really innerested in answering when they have stuff like, "Wouldn't Grimlock sound funny if he was intelligent?  Let's write an episode about that."  They pose interesting directions in which backstory can be potentially evolved.  And while people tend to dislike retconning since it usually clobbers some story they loved, it isn't exactly all bad.  G1 is really just a retcon of Takara's previous lines the toys were taken from (although it was a thorough and near complete rewrite of whatever backstory the Diaclone/Microwhatever had).

Hmm.. something else just occurred to me.  Disguising yourself as a vehicle wouldn't have been THAT much of a boon, since a moving vehicle would have to have a pilot.  And, without further explanation and expansion of sentient beings on Cybertron, the only possibilities would be an Autobot or a Decepticon.  Whereas, Soundwave's native disguise as a communication tower (an inanimate and innocuous object) or whatever it was, was much more effective.  Shockwave, having been seen to have used a handheld weapon that looks just like his alt mode, also has a very effective disguise.  Presumably, Megatron's native cybertronian form was also a handheld weapon (I ain't seen War Within or any of those, which are technically separate continuities and retcons and we're talking G1 anyway.. or are we?).

 

"Transformers have always mimicked organic life," is a bit loaded and ambiguous.  They have were natively designed to have humanoid forms and function.  They mimicked artificial non-sentient objects.  Yes, Optimus Primal is a gorilla and G1 Ravage is a jaguar.  The difference is Primal is a robot while the gorilla is the disguise.  Ravage is a jaguar only in form, but he disguises himself as a cassette.  Primal would have hair (I'm guessing, never saw it much) as part of his disguise, but Ravage is just a big robot that is in the form of a jaguar; he doesn't have hair or anything else that would attempt to fool you into thinking he was a real jaguar.

 

Transformers have all those kindsa internal systems that perform all the same beloved functions and purposes that ours do: consume and use energy, think and control ourselves, give us mobility, let us interact with our environment, etc.  One of the really inneresting things about them, though, is that, with our generally accepted definition of life, of which one of the requirements is the ability to reproduce somewhat of our own ability, the transformers are sentient but not technically alive.  They design and construct each other -- their method of "passing on information gained from prior generations" -- and gain true sentience through Vector Sigma.  In the TF universe, our definition of life would probably only apply to organic creatures, of course.  The TFs and other technological beings would prolly scoff at it.

can i just say the bw bots were not technorganic. they just had a beast transform that allowed them to conseal themselves, dna scanners then because they were equipt to explore other planets. they must have realised that scanning mechanicals all the time might not be an option.

 

the oricle in bm changed the physicallity of the axalon crew remaining maximals to cure the virus and to balance their organic nature with technological

can i just say the bw bots were not technorganic. they just had a beast transform that allowed them to conseal themselves, dna scanners then because they were equipt to explore other planets. they must have realised that scanning mechanicals all the time might not be an option.

 

the oricle in bm changed the physicallity of the axalon crew remaining maximals to cure the virus and to balance their organic nature with technological

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but thet did have some of the abilities ie:eating, like the insecticons did. and they did speak of dna... like the two times dinobot was cloned. id say they were kinda organic. not in a bm way though. in bm they were fused with their beast forms. in bw they were a meld of the two. just my opinion though.

A lot of good discussion in this thread. And I'm glad people haven't started openly cursing at each other. Well done!

 

G1:

 

I don't recall Teletran-1 looking for lifeforms to reconstruct the Bots and Cons into. I always thought it was looking for disguises for them. "Robots in disguise" as the theme song goes. Upon meeting Spike and Sparkplug, Prime didn't go into a tirade about his alternate mode not being consistant with a human being. And I doubt he thought that humans were the tiny slave laborers of their mighty 18-wheeled overlords.

 

These transformers were purely and wholly mechanical and artificial, like Data on Star Trek. Yes, they had internal thingamajigs and nano-whatsits, but honestly, if you were a giant robot, wouldn't you want all that stuff, too?

 

Transformers have all those kindsa internal systems that perform all the same beloved functions and purposes that ours do: consume and use energy, think and control ourselves, give us mobility, let us interact with our environment, etc.

 

As for Pretenders and all that.... I wash my hands of it all.

 

BW:

 

Beast Wars - The Predacon and the Maximals had to adopt organic forms originally to protect themselves from the high Energon level of prehistoric Earth.

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Yes, Optimus Primal is a gorilla and G1 Ravage is a jaguar.  The difference is Primal is a robot while the gorilla is the disguise.  Ravage is a jaguar only in form, but he disguises himself as a cassette.  Primal would have hair (I'm guessing, never saw it much) as part of his disguise, but Ravage is just a big robot that is in the form of a jaguar; he doesn't have hair or anything else that would attempt to fool you into thinking he was a real jaguar.

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BM:

 

can i just say the bw bots were not technorganic. they just had a beast transform that allowed them to conseal themselves, dna scanners then because they were equipt to explore other planets. they must have realised that scanning mechanicals all the time might not be an option.

 

the oricle in bm changed the physicallity of the axalon crew remaining maximals to cure the virus and to balance their organic nature with technological

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When BM Cheetor asked BM Primal "So what are we, robots or animals?" Prime anwered: "Both. Neither." The fuzing of tech and organic was to protect them form the virus, although I don't recall exactly how it did that. And in BM, Megatron still had his Transmetal II form from BW, but you'd think he'd undergone the same fuzing as did the Maximals.

 

Yes, there was a lot of Eastern philosophy and other mumbo-jumbo in Beast Machines. The term "balance" is completely and entirely subjective. "Bring balance to the Force" comes to mind. That Star Wars prophecy was never really defined until 'Revenge', and even then "balance" for them was the destruction of the Sith.

 

I believe that revealing more about Cybertron information that does not necessarily contradict, but adds (forgive the pun) depth to what we know about it (it's organic sublayers) only adds more mystery and makes me more interested in its past. Was it a regular planet, like Earth, when the Quintesons found it? Did they "mech" it over to manufacture their wares? Or was it the original home of the Quintesons, who, as they themselves evolved, changed the face of the planet? Who knows?

 

Of course these're all questions the writers aren't really innerested in answering when they have stuff like, "Wouldn't Grimlock sound funny if he was intelligent?  Let's write an episode about that."  They pose interesting directions in which backstory can be potentially evolved.  And while people tend to dislike retconning since it usually clobbers some story they loved, it isn't exactly all bad.  G1 is really just a retcon of Takara's previous lines the toys were taken from (although it was a thorough and near complete rewrite of whatever backstory the Diaclone/Microwhatever had).

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Pretenders and Nebulons came later. Pretender technology was designed to infiltrate (in both the NorAm and Japanese versions of the story,) while Nebulons (NorAM) were meant to be additional components that enhanced the Transformer they are "binary bonded" with - Transectors in Japan, however, were supposed to be mindless bodies, while the head/engine/weapon contained the actual personality of the robot.

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In japanj the larger Bot and the targetmaster both had individual minds, the gimmick worked just like the american counterpart just prelace the Nebulon with a robot, and replace a handheld gun altmode with an arm-cannon.