So at some point does all the nitpicking and complaining ruin things (for those that are doing it) on actually enhance them in some weird way?

Most fans nitpick because we care deeply and passionately about Transformers. If we didn't care so much, we wouldn't complain. :) For me, I have a certain level of standards and expectations for Transformers... I like to think that my expectations aren't unreasonable... like there are some fans who do expect Hasbro to do things for fans that would be unreasonable for the franchise, e.g. make Megatron a gun again etc., but I'd like to think that my expectations or hopes aren't so unreasonable that it would service hardcore fans but alienate non-fans. But at the same time it sometimes irks me when Hasbro services non-fans and alienates fans.

 

I think it is possible for Transformers to engage a general audience and appeal to fans at the same time. Beast Wars is a great example of this. Some people might argue that Animated achieved the same too (though I don't think on the same level as Beast Wars). Toylines like Binaltech/Alternators and Classicsverse have achieved a similar thing in being popular with kids and people with a casual interest in TFs as well as being extremely popular with fans!

 

I don't see why a Transformers story franchise can't be the same. Many other story franchises have succeeded in attracting the general public while also making the fandom pretty happy. e.g. Hellboy, Blade, The Crow, Superman (especially the Christopher Reeves movies), 300, Watchmen, Kick Ass, Iron Man, The Incredible Hulk, The Dark Knight, X-Men films, Lord of the Rings, Star Trek (2009) etc. - heck, even G.I. Joe: The Rise of Cobra was a pretty neat adaptation of GI Joe ARAH, complete with various kinds of subtle fan references (like Breaker chewing gum). -- I don't think too many of these franchise adaptations suffered from continuity discrepancies imposed on them by the franchise owner. For example, I don't think DC would disapprove of a story proposal from the creators of Smallville because they're concerned that it might conflict with something that happened in a DC/WB Superman cartoon or one of their Superman comic series.

I agree with MikePrime. The aesthetics are much too different to claim it's all part of the same canon. I also agree that there's just too damn many alternate universes to follow any one continuity straight. At this point, the hard core fans are just left to retcon whatever lines they want to fall together and splinter off the ones they don't care about.

I've never been a 'it must all look the same' person. I mean, every series has it's visual differences.

 

But the nit picking is a double edged sword. For one, as fans we expect so much. But at the same time, our expectations can ruin it for ourselves or another. The gun Megatron argument for example, well it just aint happening again and there is always some fan who's panties are so wadded up over the trivial matter that he/she will throw a fit whenever that expectation isnt met. Or could overshadow somebody elses enjoyment. Then when they DO make a gun Megatron, man, it just isnt good enough is it? I mean, we know why it cant be the same, but they did what could be done to get it released and somebodies still gonna throw a fit. Then we have the distinct problem that each series is made by a different crew. So thats a whole different set of things going on. Why isnt this like BW, Why isnt it like Animated, Why isnt it like G1? Because it's not the same show. And so far, it hasnt hurt the bottom line.

 

Sure Hasbro could have made everything always one stroyline, but they didn't and there's nothing that can be done about it now. I choose to accept it because simply, fussing about it on a message board isnt going to change that. If I don't like something, I just dont support it. Money talks the launguage that companies listen too.

I understand reasonable expectations of this hobby and am all for complaining if those expectations aren't met. What escapes me is the obsessive need to make the same complaint every time the opportunity arises. For example, some people don't like the designs of the Bayverse Tfs and never will. That's fine, but to voice this dislike in every thread that references Bayverse Transformers seems excessive and almost has to detract from the overall enjoyment of the hobby.

I only had two complaints I felt strongly enough about to bring up repeatedly: Not getting a red repaint of movie Ironhide and not getting movie accurate ROTF Megatron. The former has finally happened and the latter never will. Regardless, I had to let both issues go a long time ago. It was hurting my enjoyment of the hobby, and if it's not fun then what's the point?

Therefore, people who complain excessively about the same issue (like continuity or lack of) must enjoy the act of complaining itself. After all, nobody does something without a payoff. It's human nature.

I agree with Rob 100%. If I don't like it I leave it on the shelf. Complaining is a waste.

I've never been a 'it must all look the same' person. I mean, every series has it's visual differences.

Umm... within reason. Across different series/continuities, sure, they can look as different as they like. But what I will gripe about is if the visual aesthetic creates a conflict within the same series/continuity.

 

For example, I think Animated Arcee is a rather nice toy, probably the closest to a G1 Arcee toy we've ever seen in an official TF toy. So why do so many collectors opt the unofficial 3rd party Arcees over a cheaper and official Animated Arcee toy? My guess would be because they wouldn't like how Animated Arcee's visual aesthetics might "clash" with G1 and thus prefer the 3rd Party Arcees. As much as I like Animated Arcee, I could never mix her up with my G1 toys (and I'm not going to get a 3P Arcee as you all know). If Hasbro released a Classicsverse Arcee (which I totally wish they would!) I'd be totally all over that like pigeons diving after a single chip! :D But imagine if Hasbro repackaged Animated Arcee in say Generations packaging and sold it as Generations Arcee. I think a lot of fans might have difficulty accepting that toy... they might be better off repainting the Classics Mirage mould as Arcee - although that toy would be less accurate to how G1 Arcee looks like compared to Animated Arcee, aesthetically it would be more in-line with Classicsverse.

 

Put it this way, if Hasbro repainted Classics Mirage as Generations Arcee, I'd get it. If they repackaged Animated Arcee as Generations Arcee, I'd skip it.

 

But the nit picking is a double edged sword. For one, as fans we expect so much. But at the same time, our expectations can ruin it for ourselves or another. The gun Megatron argument for example, well it just aint happening again and there is always some fan who's panties are so wadded up over the trivial matter that he/she will throw a fit whenever that expectation isnt met. Or could overshadow somebody elses enjoyment. Then when they DO make a gun Megatron, man, it just isnt good enough is it?

This is what I mean by "reasonable" and "unreasonable" criticisms. Fans have to realise that fans are a minority - the majority of the TF consumer market aren't fans. But at the same time, we are an increasingly sizable minority. When Beast Wars first came out, something like 1 or 2% of the consumer market were fans, and yet they still did a lot of stuff to make us happy. Today I would conservatively guesstimate that about 10-20% of the consumer market are fans. Maybe higher? Anyway, I think it does pay for Hasbro to at least pay attention to what fans are saying and sort out what suggestions they should heed and which ones they should ignore. And to be fair to Hasbro, they DO do this... Hasbro does check out online forums etc. for feedback... it's just that they seem haphazard/inconsistent in how they respond to it. If fans make unreasonable criticisms, then I'll defend Hasbro.

 

And as Ultra Magnus says, "Consistency is victory."

 

I mean, we know why it cant be the same, but they did what could be done to get it released and somebodies still gonna throw a fit. Then we have the distinct problem that each series is made by a different crew. So thats a whole different set of things going on. Why isnt this like BW, Why isnt it like Animated, Why isnt it like G1? Because it's not the same show. And so far, it hasnt hurt the bottom line.

Ermm... I was never talking about this. I never said that TF Aligned has to be the same as Beast Wars or G1 or whatever... I just want TF Aligned to be consistent within itself. If Hasbro is insisting that WFC/FOC and TF Prime are a single continuity (rather than disparate continuities within a single continuity family), then this raises some continuity issues.

 

These issues could be easily overlooked/ignored if Hasbro didn't go around insisting or "forcing" Aligned to be a single united continuity and just allowed them to exist as different continuities in the same family. So... it doesn't seem to make much sense.

 

Forget about G1, BW, RiD, UT, Movieverse etc etc. -- looking solely at the WFC/FOC/Prime continuity alone; should this whole thing remain as a single continuity as Hasbro seems to be insisting on, or should they be allowed to exist as separate continuities within the same continuity family, which seems to make more sense!.

 

As for Archer's comment of "and if we can all squint and go, “yeah, they connect,” then we’re happy."" -- to paraphrase Professor Richard Dawkins, this is "insulting to human dignity."

 

Sure Hasbro could have made everything always one stroyline, but they didn't and there's nothing that can be done about it now.

Hasbro's NEVER made Transformers into one storyline... ever. Even in 1984-85 we had multiple different storylines happening, e.g. toy continuity (via tech spec bios), Marvel comics, Sunbow cartoon, Ladybird Books, Big Looker Books etc etc etc.

 

So if anyone tries to say or insist otherwise, I'll counter them and defend Hasbro. But what I find is important to me is that the continuities ought to be consistent within themselves. This is one reason why I preferred the Marvel Comics over the Sunbow cartoon as a child... it maintained relatively greater story consistency. The cartoon wantonly contradicted itself! Megatron made the Constructicons on Earth who made Megatron on Cybertron. The Autobots were shocked to see the Constructicons combine into Devastator when they confronted the Dinobots at the volcano, but yet Megatron gave the Constructicons the ability to combine back on Cybertron. Optimus Prime's chest houses the Cosmotron, then later it housed the Matrix of Leadership. The Seekers transformed into "Tetrajets" on Cybertron before contact with Earth, yet when Starscream was buddies with Skyfire he transformed into an F-15 Eagle... millions of years before it was created! etc etc etc. Yeah sure, the comics had their fair share of continuity problems too (e.g. atechnogenesis vs. creationism, Bumblebee's conflicting deaths, the entire Earthforce Saga (which has since been officially retconned as out-of-continuity now) etc etc.), but relatively speaking the comics had generally better story consistency than the cartoon, hence my preference for it (not to mention that the cartoon DIED a lot earlier than the comics too, so after 1987 the comics were really our main staple for TF lore in most Anglophone countries).

 

But anyway, as I said, Hasbro back then never tried to "force" these different continuities to belong together and simply allowed them to exist as separate entities. e.g. when David Wise wrote "War Dawn" and proposed the whole Orion Pax concept, I don't think Hasbro knocked him back with concerns that it contradicts the preceding origin story for Optimus Prime in the comics ("And There Shall Come... A Leader!"). Evidently Hasbro approved the story and "War Dawn" was made. I don't see why Hasbro still can't do this for Aligned... just let the WFC/FOC games and TF Prime exist as separate entities within the same Aligned Continuity Family.

 

Or perhaps more people prefer to have both WFC/FOC and TF Prime exist as the same continuity (hence the opinion poll).

 

I choose to accept it because simply, fussing about it on a message board isnt going to change that.

It can because Hasbro does actually scan through some boards/posts. I'm not saying that they read _every_ post, but they do pay attention to what the fandom is saying overall (how they choose to act on criticisms on the other hand is an entirely different matter)... however...

 

If I don't like something, I just dont support it. Money talks the launguage that companies listen too.

:agree I agree with this 100%. I totally agree that voting with our wallets is the single best way to communicate our opinions to Hasbro. Hasbro can choose to ignore our rants, but it's much harder to ignore sales (or lack thereof). Just yesterday I found a ROTF Combiner Class Devastator still shelfwarming.

 

I understand reasonable expectations of this hobby and am all for complaining if those expectations aren't met. What escapes me is the obsessive need to make the same complaint every time the opportunity arises. For example, some people don't like the designs of the Bayverse Tfs and never will. That's fine, but to voice this dislike in every thread that references Bayverse Transformers seems excessive and almost has to detract from the overall enjoyment of the hobby.

So just ignore those posts? Everyone has the right to voice an opinion... and equally we all have the right to listen to or completely ignore those opinions. Most boards also have an Ignore Function too, so if there's a particular user whose posts you find completely banal, just chuck 'em on your Ignore List. I have two members of this board on my Ignore List because I found that nothing they ever posted was worth reading (to me). In fact, reading their posts just upset me more and was detracting from my overall enjoyment of interacting here, so I've just bunged them on my Ignore List and now everything they post is invisible to me! Bliss!

 

If people wanna Ignore me too, that's fine... I don't care (I mean, if my posts are detracting your enjoyment then by all means Ignore me!). No skin off my nose. :)

 

I only had two complaints I felt strongly enough about to bring up repeatedly: Not getting a red repaint of movie Ironhide and not getting movie accurate ROTF Megatron. The former has finally happened and the latter never will. Regardless, I had to let both issues go a long time ago. It was hurting my enjoyment of the hobby, and if it's not fun then what's the point?

See I personally find both of those complaints to be "unreasonable" (by my standards). Movieverse =/= G1, so I really don't see the need to have movieverse moulds in G1 colours (in fact, I think Movieverse TFs look stupid in G1 colours, except Ratchet - even then it's because he did "appear" in the film in his G1 colours). And I find the existing ROTF Megatron toys to be screen-accurate enough... or maybe I just don't care enough about ROTF Megatron to want a more screen-accurate toy. :P

 

And that's the thing, what you and I think are "reasonable" and "unreasonable" complaints is completely subjective because we all have different standards and values. So it's kinda hard to say, "I hate it when fans make unreasonable complaints, but here's my whinge list..." -- when in the eyes of another fans, your complaints could be perceived as unreasonable too!

 

That's why I said that I try to avoid making complaints that I think are unreasonable... but that's not to say that my complaints aren't unreasonable... I'm sure to some people the whole notion of insisting that Hasbro should allow TF Aligned to exist as a continuity family instead of a continuity is a frivolous and pointless complaint. I don't think so, but that's just my opinion.

 

So it's kinda hard to deny other people the right to voice opinions and yet assert your own right to do so. We just need to accept the fact that we ALL have the right to voice our opinions, no matter how banal some other people's opinions may seem. If people find other people's posts to be not worth reading... just ignore them!

 

Therefore, people who complain excessively about the same issue (like continuity or lack of) must enjoy the act of complaining itself. After all, nobody does something without a payoff. It's human nature.

Like complaining about complaining? :P ;) :P (heh)

 

This is an interesting read about why people complain:

http://crypto-cranium.blogspot.com/2007/12/why-do-people-complain.html

 

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P.S.: One example of when online fan whinging did affect change: initially Michael Bay intended Movie Megatron's head to look like this:

 

...but then fans online whinged and whinged and whinged (not me though, I was avoiding all spoilers) to the point where Michael Bay conceded and changed Megatron's head to what we actually saw in the film. Yeah sure, there were still some fans who've never stopped complaining -- but the number of complaints went down and was accepted by most fans - thus the minority who continued to complain became smaller in number and were duly ignored... because probably according to some people Movie Megatron should look like this:

Holy crap is that the rough draft :P

 

No, my discussion on the different series wasn't in response to you, just along the general discussion. I see Hasbro trying to make one continuity and a year later it becoming a continuity family. Hence Archers quote.

 

As far as the aesthetics, nah they can be different and I still don't mind.

 

And yeah, to an extent we are listened too. He'll, to be fair, with all the stuff made towards us, we really can't complain IMO. But honestly, when a big Corp does their test marketing, they do it towards the children. It's probably harsh to say this, but sometimes Hasbro seems to take us for granted, and really you can't blame them. I mean, we are still there buying regardless in most cases. We are a minority in their profit margin, but they do remember us time to time ( or a lot of the time depending on the product). Like in BW, they didn't have to make those characters linked, but they did. We can be grateful that the TF team appreciates us. I can imagine other toy based fandoms with less considerate companies.

Holy crap is that the rough draft :P

For me, that's being brief. :P :P

 

And yeah, to an extent we are listened too. He'll, to be fair, with all the stuff made towards us, we really can't complain IMO.

I think some complaints are more warranted than others... especially complaints where the toys suck even for kids. For me, play value is a BIG part of a toy's appeal because I still play with my toys (doing the voices, sound effects pew pew pew etc.! :D). I'm not one of those people who buy toys and just displays them and rarely touches them... I do actively play with them too.

 

Take Combiner Class ROTF Devastator as a classic example... that toy is a hunk of crap on multiple levels, but especially in terms of play value which should be a toy's first and foremost priority. Toys that offer craphouse playability are just epic failures IMO (that's why I don't waste my time/money collecting non-playable rubbish like Mighty Muggs, statues, busts... heck, even my collection of PVC figurines like Robot Heroes is pretty limited... seriously, what do these stupid things do other than just sit there???) - anyway, getting back to Devastator... the overall design of the toy is ridiculously low-grade for such an expensive toy. I initially thought that by sacrificing having robot modes, we would have really awesome looking vehicle modes as a trade off, but that's simply NOT the case. The vehicle modes on Combiner Class Devastator are easily inferior to the vehicle modes of their non-combining counter parts (e.g. Voyager Mixmaster, Voyager Long Haul, Deluxe Rampage, Voyager Demolishor etc.) -- heck, even the Legends Class Constructicons look better in vehicle mode (or at least look no worse) than the Combiner Class Constructicons - and they can transform to robot and combine as well! The level of engineering in some of the Combiner Class Constructicons I find comparable with McDonalds Happy Meal Transformer toys... only ya know, WAY more f'expensive!

 

So with this set we have 6 mediocre construction vehicles who cannot transform to robot and with a fairly simplistic transformation combine to form a large but otherwise underwhelmingly unimpressive gestalt robot. Okay, the "Nom! Nom!" gimmick is pretty fun... but I got bored with it like after a month. It doesn't offer sustained play value ... as most gimmicks on their own don't. A gimmick should exist to compliment the toy, but here we have a toy that exists to compliment the gimmick. :( And that was also a big problem I had with a lot of Armada and some Energon toys too (e.g. Armada Scavenger). I don't like toys that are overwhelmed by their gimmicks.

 

And if you think back to our childhood it was the same. Most people's least favourite G1 toys are those which are overwhelmed by their gimmicks to the point where the overall engineering of the toy was compromised. e.g. Runabout, Runamuck, Sparkstalker, Flamefeather, Cindersaur, the G2 Power Masters, Action Masters, Action Master Elites etc. -- all craptacular craphouse pieces of crap toys because they were adversely compromised by an overwhelming gimmick feature. I'm also generally NOT fond of electronic sound gimmicks in Transformer toys either, because there's always a central electronic sound box that they have to engineer the toy around which leads to sacrifices elsewhere; either in the engineering of the toy and/or cosmetics (e.g. paint apps). Look at Butterfly Wingaling Optimus Prime... that toy could've been a lot better if they hadn't bothered with that lame electronic mech tech weapon... although at least it's a detachable block. Other toys who house the electronic sound block inside are often worse affected, e.g. TF1 and ROTF Leader Megatrons.

 

But honestly, when a big Corp does their test marketing, they do it towards the children.

I wish this were true, but I think in some cases Hasbro are aiming the toys at retailers like Wal*Mart rather than the kids. Hasbro even said so at one BotCon (i.e. that their primary market are retailers, not end consumers)...

 

It's probably harsh to say this, but sometimes Hasbro seems to take us for granted, and really you can't blame them.

I do blame them when they make totally needless decisions that irk fans and are of no benefit to their primary demographic market (kids).

 

e.g.

+ naming RTS Grapple "Grappel" -- this was NOT done for legal reasons, Hasbro easily hold the rights to that name, but they decided to misspell it on purpose. Good work.

+ not giving us DOTM Mirage, Wheeljack and Soundwave (oh, and a Deluxe Leadfoot too) yet. Seriously... what are they waiting for? In fact, it makes more sense for the kiddies to release those toys sooner -- collectors will still buy these toys whenever the hell they release them, but most kids are more likely to buy them while the movie is still fresh in their minds -- i.e. when the film was out in cinemas. The film is now finished in most cinemas and available on DVD and Blu Ray... yet still no sign of these toys... and we're not that far off from the holiday season. They've given us different versions of Bumblebee and Optimus Prime, but NONE of the missing movie cast toys! We have that stupid Speed Stars Mirage, but no transformable Mirage action figure. WTF??

+ Generations Frenzy and Rumble... where for art thou?!?

...etc.

 

I think some decisions from Hasbro are more defensible than others.

 

I mean, we are still there buying regardless in most cases.

Yeah... we're stupid. Hasbro releases toys - some are awesome, some are crap. We buy crap toys then whinge about them afterwards, but really we should be trying our best to boycott the crap toys!

 

I bought Combiner Class Devastator (albeit on sale)... but still... shame on me.

 

We are a minority in their profit margin, but they do remember us time to time ( or a lot of the time depending on the product). Like in BW, they didn't have to make those characters linked, but they did.

Well, Hasbro made the characters link to improve sales. I'm sick of every series' leader being an Optimus and Megatron, but Hasbro does it because kids recognise the names/characters. Also remember that initially Hasbro came up with what is widely considered an inferior story premise for Beast Wars too -- the Autobots and Decepticons used biotechnology (stolen from humans!) to change themselves to Maximals and Predacons!! It was actually Mainframe Entertainment who provided us with the cartoon story which has become the more widely favoured story for Beast Wars (so much so that even Hasbro changed BW toy continuity to align with the cartoon).

 

We can be grateful that the TF team appreciates us.

Without naming any names, I think there are some members of the TF team who care more about the TF franchise than others... i.e the members of the creative team who are actual Transfans themselves. These would be the guys who spearheaded a lot of cool figures in Generations, giving us toys like Darkmount etc. making fans very happy. But I think there are other elements on the Hasbro team who aren't as passionate about the TF franchise who sometimes countermand what the more passionate members are trying to do. This is evident in the haphazard and inconsistent focus that Hasbro sometimes shows toward the franchise.

 

For example, obviously someone at HasTak who cares deeply about TFs went and designed United Rumble and Frenzy. But I reckon someone at the higher executive level have decided to cancel the Hasbro versions of these toys. Likewise we know that Deluxe versions of Soundwave, Mirage, Leadfoot and Wheeljack have been designed... kudos to the creative team for doing that. So why aren't they out yet? That's not a design decision, that's gotta be marketing and other sections of Hasbro who are holding these toys back (if they ever release them...)

 

I can imagine other toy based fandoms with less considerate companies.

Maybe, but how many other toylines haven't been around as continuously as Transformers? Transformers came out in 1984 and has been in continuous production ever since! For the last 27 years we have NEVER had a year without Transformer products on shelves. Some years were a lot slimmer than others (e.g. 1996, 2002), but there was always some new product out. Many of us have been collecting Transformers continuously for the last 27 years too -- I know I have.

 

So considering that many of us die-hard fans have loyally stuck with the Transformers brand continuously for over a quarter of a century, while we may be a minority, I'd like to think that our opinions matter (at least some of them :P). Why are we a minority? Because we were the few who refused to give up on Transformers. I know that as I was growing up, other kids who I used to play Transformers with decided that Transformers was no longer "cool" (blasphemy!) or that they were "too cool/old" for Transformers (heresy!) and decided to "move on" from Transformers (sacrilege! -- although I would often benefit as they'd either sell me their toys for cheap, or just give me their entire collections! :D). But despite schoolyard bullies beating us up for wearing our iron-on S.T.A.R.S. patches on our school jackets or carrying our money in Transformer wallets or speaking to bullies as "in character Transformers" (e.g. referring to them as "insignificant flesh creatures," "son of a Go-Bot" etc.), having our toys and tech specs damaged by bullies etc. - we still persisted! We were the ones who have stuck through with the franchise from day one, unlike some other collectors who've only recently "rediscovered" their Transfandom after a long hiatus. But where were they when G1 died? Where were they when G2 came along? Where was Rohan when the Westfold fell?!??! Gondor needs no King!! *ahem* :P <---this paragraph has been said with tongue in cheek, so don't take it too seriously. ;)

 

On a more serious note, I do wish Hasbro would treat Transformers with better care and attention as they do with some other franchises like the way I see G.I. Joe and Star Wars being done (not that I collect either line, this is just from an outsider's perspective, but they seem to well done... I love how they've released these new Star Wars toys but on old school looking packaging! Imagine if Classicsverse toys were reissued in replica G1 packaging! And IIRC they did something similar for G.I. Joe ARAH too) - then you look at shows like G.I. Joe Resolute... how cool would it be if Hasbro made a Classicsverse cartoon in that style -- a short mini series targetted at adults. If it worked for G.I. Joe why can't it work for TFs? (saleswise I think Transformers is one of Hasbro's top selling brands - I think (but not 100% sure) it's bigger than G.I. Joe and possibly even bigger than Star Wars).

Heh, we aint on A.T.T anymore!

 

Between whats subjective and not, while Hasbro does farm out to retailers more (they do have to get them to sell the product), they test market on kids. There is a fan advisory panel, but still, kids come first. Basically play features and what have you.

 

I'm not gonna gripe about the name thing, Hasbro has their reasons and has made it perfectly clear the name on the box isnt always the characters name (Hot Rod/Rodimus). It's for their legal department and not an intentional slight. But no, i still don't think we have much room to complain, I mean... Generations. I have a Straxus toy. They really don't have to do that. Sure, some movie toys might not be everybodies cup of tea, but hardly worth overlooking stuff like ROTF Bludgeon. Obviously not everyone on the TF team cares about the fan base, but enough of them do (fan or not) to make me appreciate their efforts. But it's kinda hard to say Hasbro treats SW or Joe better than us. Maybe SW, but hey... STAR WARS! It's bigger than us, that's just fact. I'd actually say we've gotten the better of the companies attention than Joe. Sure Joe is older, but look at the past decade. TF has beaten it in sales. We've come from being GI JOE's bratty little brother to being the kid who's an investment banker or something.

 

And hey, remember us dudes in the U.S had that time between G1 and G2 where there was nothing. Actually 2002 was pretty swarming with new stuff here. Between the last half of RID and the first wave of Armada/G1 reissues/and HOC. 95 and 96 was pretty slim, but it met expectations of the time (well, 95 did seem pretty ghost town). It was weird in hindsight. I've been here since 84 myself and have a basement full of tupperware boxes. Loyalty is definatley not in question here bro. Hell, sometimes I think about the folks who called me weirdo and all the hype that TF gets now and... well they prolly still think I'm weird... but they drink a little of the kool aid too.

Whew, looks like Blitz-wing's admonishment to keep posts concise didn't register.

For the record, I wasn't complaining about other people complaining. How they waste their time is their business. I was musing about how obsessive whining could possibly enhance the enjoyment of any hobby but specifically this one.

As for G1 repaints of Bayverse characters, we got First Strike Optimus, Rescue Ratchet, and whatever the G1 Jazz repaint was called within the first couple months of the first movie, so a red Ironhide was not unexpected, let alone unreasonable.

As for ROTF Megatron, if he is not a triple-changer, he is not accurate, much like the oft-maligned Combiner Class ROTF Devastator.

How about that? I made the points I wanted to and didn't need to write a novel to do it.

For the record, it was a suggestion. Never a request, demand or a mandatory rule. People can write as much or as little on a subject as their heart desires. It's their right. My only point was that the shorter and more concise you are, the more likely others will give regard. ;)