ROTF wasn't just bad because it didn't emotionally attach the audience to it's characters, it was bad because of poor direction, plot holes, little to no character development and horrible attempts at comedy.

I already discussed this in my earlier post, but IMO ROTF was better in most of these aspects. Plus it wasn't boring.

 

I dont think I was bored by any of these movies. Star Trek's pacing being the best among the rest I think. District 9 started out a bit slower but it was like a snowball rolling down a hill. It just kept gathering steam and gathering steam until it exploded! Plus in the beginning I became so interested in it's mythos that I was craving more. It totally hooked me.

 

ROTF was just all over the place and had way more eye-rolling moments then the others. Particularly the terrible attempts at jokes. I think I rolled my eyes so much I could see how much my brain had deteriorating from listening to the Twins.

 

EDIT: I gotta point some other things out real quick. You said its better then the others in the descriptions I listed. Poor direction certainly goes to ROTF. District 9 and Star Trek on the other side were handled brilliantly. Both were admittedly suffering from shaky camera syndrome at times but so did ROTF. Plot holes, ROTF had loads. District 9 had a few. And I didn't see very many in Star Trek (though I dont know if you could consider the possibilities of altering time itself). Character development is close, but I'll give it to Star Trek. We got to see an entire cast of already established characters get their pasts fleshed out. Whereas in District 9 we really only saw one man evolve over the course of the movie. ROTF's best moment of character development is probably when The Fallen was talking to Megatron on the Nemesis and when Mudflap got eaten by Devastator (we saw how much Skids really cared). But those two things are really stretching it. As far as comedy goes, ROTF wins because its the only one out of the three that actually tried to put some comedic relief in. And they forced it in with a massive bloody hammer. Star Trek had some lol moments but they were worked into Kirk's character and weren't as blatant as ROTFs. So maybe Star Trek wins there too.

^^^Actually... (and maybe this is just me) but Between ROTF and D9 in the humor department; I'd go with D9. D9's humor was very subtle, but it was there; it just didnt't always look like it was meant to be comedy.

 

For instance when Wikus ralfed on the table with the cake and there was that awkward silence... and then he picks up that tiny little napkin and starts trying to wipe up all the ickiness? My friend and I cracked UP when we saw that. It was a kind of delayed reaction, and I almost didn't catch it, but I thought that was pretty funny.

 

All of D9's humor was kind of like that; it was like that quiet guy in the back who says really funny things that you won't hear if you're not listening... whereas ROTF was like some guy who hides in the bushes outside your house and jumps out n' screams: "I'M FUNNY!" at you as you walk past.

 

However I'll admit that Jetfire's grandfather line was comic gold; ROTF managed to have a couple really good moments. But it was kind of a "Spray n' Pray" SMG approach to humor: If we make enough jokes, eventually one will hit the target and be funny.

 

So I guess my conclusion is that ROTF has MORE humor... D9 has higher quality humor? (Crud, I'm probably going to catch flak for this)

Good points 4RL Deal. District 9 did have some humor but it wasn't like the characters were intentionally trying to be funny, more rather it was social awkwardness (like when Wickus is talking to the MNU Mercenary/Soldiers).

 

The Jetfire "My Gandfather was a wheel, the first wheel." line WAS golden. A very funny joke and something that I had forgotten but deserves remembering.

Good points 4RL Deal. District 9 did have some humor but it wasn't like the characters were intentionally trying to be funny, more rather it was social awkwardness (like when Wickus is talking to the MNU Mercenary/Soldiers).

 

The Jetfire "My Gandfather was a wheel, the first wheel." line WAS golden. A very funny joke and something that I had forgotten but deserves remembering.

Good additional points that you edited in your previous post, Breaker! Also wanted to add (and I think this might be in the direction that you were going)...do you think perhaps some of the D9 humor would possibly be viewed as politically 'incorrect' stuff that's just not gonna be given much credence, or even acknowledged as humor, by the PC crowd? Whatever the case, D9 was an extremely unique and complex film.

Good points 4RL Deal. District 9 did have some humor but it wasn't like the characters were intentionally trying to be funny, more rather it was social awkwardness (like when Wickus is talking to the MNU Mercenary/Soldiers).

 

The Jetfire "My Gandfather was a wheel, the first wheel." line WAS golden. A very funny joke and something that I had forgotten but deserves remembering.

Good additional points that you edited in your previous post, Breaker! Also wanted to add (and I think this might be in the direction that you were going)...do you think perhaps some of the D9 humor would possibly be viewed as politically 'incorrect' stuff that's just not gonna be given much credence, or even acknowledged as humor, by the PC crowd? Whatever the case, D9 was an extremely unique and complex film.

 

Well some of the things towards the Prawn could be considered humor, albeit they'd be the real world equivalent of racist jokes. Not that a good racist joke isn't funny from time to time as anyone who has ever seen the show Drawn Together can tell you. Although I get it would be a speciest joke?

 

Whatever the case the mere fact that they are aliens still detaches the audience from them somewhat, so they don't feel guilty about laughing at something that would otherwise be offensive, like if instead of aliens if they were merely a different creed of human.

EDIT: I gotta point some other things out real quick. You said its better then the others in the

descriptions I listed.

...

Plot holes, ROTF had loads. District 9 had a few.

...

As far as comedy goes, ROTF wins because its the only one out of the three that actually tried to put some comedic relief in. And they forced it in with a massive bloody hammer. Star Trek had some lol moments but they were worked into Kirk's character and weren't as blatant as ROTFs. So maybe Star Trek wins there too.

To be picky, I said MOST of the aspects you described. I prefer the humor in ST and D9 over ROTF. the RotF humor is its greatest weakness imo. Take most of that out and I thought it was awesome.

 

As for the plot holes, I disagree completely. I stated most of the problems I had with D9's plot in my earlier linked post. People have griped about RotF, but I find it easier to explain the plot holes in that movie than in D9.

 

But some of the plot holes, for me anyway, were so blatant that they distracted from the rest of the film. My biggest one is: If Sam had a shard, why did they waste valuable time looking for Jetfire? Why did they have to go to Egypt to get the Matrix to bring Prime back? Why wouldn't the shard have worked on Prime to begin with? It worked on Megatron who was in a lot worse shape then Optimus, having had his spark obliterated by the Matrix then left in a watery abyss for a few years.

EDIT: I gotta point some other things out real quick. You said its better then the others in the

descriptions I listed.

...

Plot holes, ROTF had loads. District 9 had a few.

...

As far as comedy goes, ROTF wins because its the only one out of the three that actually tried to put some comedic relief in. And they forced it in with a massive bloody hammer. Star Trek had some lol moments but they were worked into Kirk's character and weren't as blatant as ROTFs. So maybe Star Trek wins there too.

To be picky, I said MOST of the aspects you described. I prefer the humor in ST and D9 over ROTF. the RotF humor is its greatest weakness imo. Take most of that out and I thought it was awesome.

 

As for the plot holes, I disagree completely. I stated most of the problems I had with D9's plot in my earlier linked post. People have griped about RotF, but I find it easier to explain the plot holes in that movie than in D9.

 

But some of the plot holes, for me anyway, were so blatant that they distracted from the rest of the film. My biggest one is: If Sam had a shard, why did they waste valuable time looking for Jetfire? Why did they have to go to Egypt to get the Matrix to bring Prime back? Why wouldn't the shard have worked on Prime to begin with? It worked on Megatron who was in a lot worse shape then Optimus, having had his spark obliterated by the Matrix then left in a watery abyss for a few years.

 

Adding to Breakers inquire...How come only a Prime can defeat the Fallen? How come the original prime's were sacrificed instead of being killed by the Fallen? I'd believe that then the Fallen was stronger than his brothers so they hid the matrix and killed themselves. :tfhuh What happened to Wheelie? Oh and where the hell is Barricade?

I think most movies have a couple of plot holes; the big thing is whether or not those holes detract from the overall story. I have a friend who always asks me when watching movies: "Why did they DO that?" to which I find myself responding very often: "You're not supposed to ask that question" and frankly I'm cool with that within reason.

 

If every movie took a bunch of extra time to explain away every one of the head-scratchers, it would often detract from the over all story; The film would get so completely bogged down trying to tie up it's loose ends that it wouldn't get anywhere; or at least it wouldn't get there in an entertaining way.

 

I feel like the questions that you can raise in D9 are little more than tangential; they exist, yes, but if you took the time to address them, D9 could lose it's focus on it's theme:

What is the meaning of "Human"?

Addressing largely incidental issues like the ships seemingly permanent levitation, or why only one alien had the brains to do something about their predicament simply would have been a side-track, or else it wouldn't have made sense. And as I like to say: "If it can't be explained satisfactorily, why explain it at all?" I mean, if your explanation seems unbelievable, why even try? Just ignore the plot-hole and go with the flow, satisfied that there's probably an explanation, but you really don't need to know it.

 

ROTF however IS a plot-hole... It doesn't really seem to even connect to the first film which established the following:

1.The all-spark is the most powerful artifact in existence, and Megatron's ultimate goal is controlling it.

2.Megatron is the biggest Hard-Case in the known universe.

 

But apparently Orci/Kurtzman came down with a virulent case of "Dragonball-Z-itis" because suddenly in ROTF:

1.There's a secret BIGGER BADDER dude that you didn't know about, so therefore Megatron must now become 75% more pansy and...

2.In fact, the fallen is so big and bad that Apparently he doesn't even need that silly all-spark cuz we forgot to mention we have a sun Harvester!

(Does that make OP into Goku? Let's see... toughest fighter on earth... dies and comes back more powerful... hmmm...)

 

*sigh* that newgrounds cartoon said it best: "ROTF: aka: Operation: DESTROY THE POINT OF THE FIRST MOVIE!" :tfgrin

^^^ And those are only some. There are even more to be counted. And additionally, you quoted me for all those, when in fact half of those aren't my words.

 

And on the Jetfire/Matrix thing, how would Sam know what qualifies to bring an alien robot back to life? He's not a robot surgeon, thats Ratchet! And he apparently knew nothing along the lines of "Matrix brings Primes back to life" or you'd think he'd say something. But then again he probably didn't know Sam had an Allspark shard, which would have probably been helpful. Instead they waste valuable time to track down Simmons and Jetfire instead of simply asking the medical officer, "Hey, could THIS help Optimus?" Just fucking think about the options available to you Sam, you damn moron. Thats the feeling I got throughout the entire film.

 

The lineage? He didn't hadoken Fallen or anything special. He just impaled the guy. It doesn't take a wise guy to impale a dude. I dunno, maybe The Fallen's powerful abilities didn't work on Prime or something, which would have made sense had they acknowledged that at some point (like on the Nemesis), and it could explain why the Fallen had no defense against Optimus. But again, Im rationalizing things that I shouldn't have to, it should already be in the movie, I shouldn't have to stretch the story to try and compensate for shitty writing.

 

And because they don't explain it, makes it a plot hole. That in itself is part of the definition of plot hole.

 

Wheelie and Barricade ARE plot holes. You have a character held over from the first movie who completely vanishes for the second. Thats like if Jim Gordon was in Batman Begins, and then left entirely out of the sequel. A good supporting character completely gone. Its just a damn shame and leaves a HOLE in the story as to where he went. Wheelie was humpin dumb chick's leg, then he vanishes too. Just gone. Where was he during the fighting? Was he hiding? Probably but we don't know do we, we never got to see. It could have easily been solved by showing him hiding under a rock or something, but no. It's left unresolved, which is a HOLE in the story. Same for the Twins. After they brawl with Devastator, they vanish too! Devastator just starts climbing the pyramid! Where did they go!? Nobody knows!

Actually, I thought the plot holes in D9 were worse. Let me try to quickly go over these, and then you guys can take a shot at the ones I listed earlier about D9 :)

 

But some of the plot holes, for me anyway, were so blatant that they distracted from the rest of the film. My biggest one is: If Sam had a shard, why did they waste valuable time looking for Jetfire? Why did they have to go to Egypt to get the Matrix to bring Prime back? Why wouldn't the shard have worked on Prime to begin with? It worked on Megatron who was in a lot worse shape then Optimus, having had his spark obliterated by the Matrix then left in a watery abyss for a few years.

Jetfire first told them about the Matrix. He wasn't initially sending them there to revive Prime, just get the Matrix. It was Sam, inspired by the AllSpark, who came up with the idea that perhaps the Matrix would save Prime.

Prime and Megatron were killed different ways, so that could explain why the shard wouldn't have worked on Optimus. Just like humans can die and be healed in different manners...

 

Adding to Breakers inquire...How come only a Prime can defeat the Fallen?

It would be interesting to know, but just because they don't explain it doesn't make it a plot hole. I'm guessing it just has to do with something in the Prime lineage...

 

How come the original prime's were sacrificed instead of being killed by the Fallen? I'd believe that then the Fallen was stronger than his brothers so they hid the matrix and killed themselves. :tfhuh

I don't understand your question here, it looks like you answered it yourself.

 

What happened to Wheelie? Oh and where the hell is Barricade?

Again, these aren't plothole, just things that weren't explained. Wheelie probably went back with the Autobots and Barricade's probably still on Earth somewhere like all the other Decepticons we saw land there.

 

 

Breaker stop putting words in my mouth :P :P J/k must be a bug in the system. I don't know why Breaker's name is above my quotes....anyway

 

Aside from my beef with the lack of robot character development, some scenes in the movie don't make sense! :argh Hence the plot holes. ( insert dramatic music)

 

Like I said it doesn't make sense to me the Fallen is strong but he's impaled and seemingly defeated in Jetfire's flash back, yet he's stronger than the other primes.....So after the primes temporary disable the Fallen they kill themselves? Weak. I think Defiance had a better explaination of the Fallen's background then in ROTF. :shrug This coming from someone that has read the comics, but even so I shouldn't have to do "research" to find out about a particular incident or character for that matter.

 

There are so many things that they could have handled better in ROTF and they chose not too. While I refuse to rack my brain on ROTF mishaps any longer I'll still be poking fun just for laughs. ;) Although they were some things I did not "get" in D9 it wasn't enough to leave me shaking my head in disappointment or asking myself continuous questions. Personally I think D9 was better handled than ROTF. :shrug

 

Edit for errors sorry I'm tired. :bored