Would you let your kids own Terminator Salvation toys? Would you let them see Terminator Salvation?

Sure, they can own the toys...but there not seeing the movie...it's PG-13 as well.

I honestly do applaud you for that, most rents would see that rating and say Oh kids movie, not say oh its a soft Monster movie. Lets face it 12 foot shapeshifting beings here to destroy the earth is pretty much an adult theme. But saying that Michael Jackson killed more people in 30 minutes than Rocky and the Die Hard movies combined..

I seriously find this "dont swear round kids" thing that most have HIGHLY offensive. I dont want a society where words are "naughty" hell man its the adult equivalent of "oooh you just said doodie"... Stop being held back by oldfashioned bull.

 

 

Actually I don't think any of that is old fashion bull, when I was a kid (and by the sound of things i think i'm a good bit older than you) my parents didn't swear around me, as kids are impressional, when you have kids do want every 2nd word out of their mouth to be F**K, SH*T, C**T?? When they get older they undoubtly pick these words up! But you seem to have the impression of wanting to encourage it, I've seen kids in the street telling older people to F**k off even their parents! It's embarrassing to them but their own fault, kids need rules and discipline!!

Unfortunately in modern society your attitude is common and unfortunate!

 

As for the movie i don't believe it was too over the top, their was slapstick for the kids and the swearing and sexual innuendo was enough for the adults which most kids wouldn't understand...

 

After all I believe the movie is genuinely aimed at people who grew up with G1 and are now in my age bracket (do the math)

 

To answer the fallen question, his statement was a bit crytic and in no way referred directly to The Fallen, could of meant any number of things.

Yes it would be quite shocking to hear my future kids swear, but no I wouldn't discourage it. I would try to teach them context. Oh and yes that attitude is O L D, Cursed words Swearing allegiance to Satan, I don't want to be held back by some bishop 200 years ago and neither do I want my kids to be. We are an enlightened society and as such I would want my kids to make up their own minds on what language to use.

 

 

.

You cant advance society by stagnating it.

 

Ok Spongebob is full of lewd jokes, so is Powerpuff girls. As is Transformers Animated. Oh and an actual quote from 80's Iron Man "Spiderwoman why dont you tie him up like an old boyfriend" dagnamit EVEN SHAKESPEARE is FULL of lewd jokes.

If Shakespearian jokes aint ok what is?

Let me guess you would much prefer the good old days of Thom and Jerry?

 

 

Yep, Spongebob is, but many of the more subtle ones will go straight over kids heads. Haven't seen the others so couldn't comment. I think the finer subtleties of Shakespeare will be lost on kids below 13 anyway. Nothing wrong with a bit of Tom and Jerry tho. Maybe I'm getting too old for TFs if I'm having to argue out why we shouldn't encourage kids to use foul language. Let's not derail this thread further with pointless debate - suffice to say it's in the film in abundance take it or leave it.

We aint arguing we are having a healthy debate.. Or at least I thought we were.. :tfhuh . :tfgrin

The main issue is that many adults spend that much of their post teenage years trying desperately to forget their old self, they think that they are maturing but really they are wiping out much of their innocence. I am guilty of that too, there are a series of Coco Pops adverts on our TV at the moment, each features a fun little animation of "how the milk goes chocolaty"

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See all sweet and fun, heck nothing wrong with that eh? Well for a second I forgot the fun part and went all "reactionary adult" and thought "Why is it the white kids get the technology and fun dancer, but the black girl gets the cavemen?". Its only an advert, but I actually saw racism in it. Worst is I actually seemed to TRY to see something wrong with it.

 

Its the same with these kinds of jokes in ROTF, in playgrounds from 3 years old its the "naughty jokes" that make kids laugh, its those jokes they LOVE, they don't like the Banana Skin or Knock Knock jokes, they like to be treated with the intelligence and free leash they DESERVE. Kids 6 years old at the Petting Zoo stood there pointing at ducks screwing like rabbits laughing, its just as funny for an adult to watch the origins of their own sense of humor.

 

 

You know, I wasn't going to interject because I was just enjoying reading some spoilers to compare to the script and novel, but I just wanted to add something to this.

 

I can see what you mean about trying to read negative things in those commercials and how it detracts from enjoying things. I understand that. Thing is, I don't see where giant robot testicles and BB pissing on someone is so entertaining.

 

So adults get to watch the origins of their own sense of humor...ok, but why should a movie not intended for those little children laughing at ducks humping in a park have to step so far back and resort to humor that is for those six year olds? That to me isn't good writing and since it's intended for adults why would you insult your audiences intelligence by trying to convince them that this should be funny? I think dumbing down the writing isn't what makes good writing. As a matter of fact, a lot of these jokes aren't even in the script or novel, it's like they were just added for the hell of it. I'm not going to get into Monty Python or Tom and Jerry because I love those old shows and compared to the Transformers scripts, those shows were Shakespearian in their subtlety and wit.

 

I can't say for too much certainty, but it seems to me that they really bumped up the level of shock humor and dumbed down jokes. This to me has a LOT less of a place than any swearing the movie has in it. I actually don't care about the swearing because I'm not a Puritan prude, but these dumbed down "Devs Balls" and "BB pissing" and "humping Wheelie" jokes...come on. This is "Transformers", not "There's something about Mary" with giant robots, where we're all wondering how Devs wrecking balls got above his crane. My biggest complaint from what I heard of this film is that it insults the audiences intelligence and that does not make a good science fiction film...not I think Bay really is trying to make a Science Fiction film here, I think he's trying to make an action comedy with explosions that just happens to have giant robots which is also not what Transformers is since at that point you can put any robots in that film and it would be just as generic.

 

 

 

After reading all this, my conclusion is, I'll wait for it to come out on DVD, then wait to buy a used copy or five bucks used at the local Blockbuster Video.

Look at every Pixar movie, hell even most Disney movies have similar types of humor.

 

EDIT:

Do you think that a loved character recommending strip bars is responsible in a kids tv show?

RATTRAP to DINOBOT

 

 

 

Yes, I can't count the number of testicle jokes in a Pixar film. Just the other day I was watching Toy Story and Buzz Lightyears balls were all over the place. and remember that time in cars where they were pissing oil all over someone? OH! And that time in the Lion King where we saw Timon and Pumba humping? No, neither do I.

 

Yeah, sometimes they use a symbolic visual to allude to something in those films, but it's really rather subtle like the part explaining in song why Pumba was an exile for smelling bad and farting all the time? Hell, they didn't even use the actual word "fart" in the Lion King AND they never even, ever made the sound effect. See, theres a difference from symbolic or implied and literal and blatant. And that film was actually for the kids and had a G rating and starred organic life forms so I expect six year old level humor there as well as jokes pertaining to bodily functions. I don't however expect those to be there in a PG-13 rated science fiction action film starring giant robots intended for more adult audiences. Like I said, Transformers, NOT There's Something About Mary. Transformers, NOT Scary Movie. Transformers, NOT Me, Myself and Irene.

 

Also, you're bringing up a kids TV show and I'm talking Science Fiction films. You're comparisons are rather off balanced to what I was talking about. I'm not even talking about whether or not it is responsible to show or say these things to kids at all. I'm no parent and it is up to the individual parent to decide what is suitable for their own kid, so why you brought that up is beyond me. I think you have me confused with someone else that disagrees with you. My only point is that in a Transformers film "naughty" humor for 6 year olds or shock humor is gratuitous and unnecessary, and insults the intelligence of the adult audience, and it does not make the film better or even good to begin with.

You know, I wasn't going to interject because I was just enjoying reading some spoilers to compare to the script and novel, but I just wanted to add something to this.

 

I can see what you mean about trying to read negative things in those commercials and how it detracts from enjoying things. I understand that. Thing is, I don't see where giant robot testicles and BB pissing on someone is so entertaining.

 

So adults get to watch the origins of their own sense of humor...ok, but why should a movie not intended for those little children laughing at ducks humping in a park have to step so far back and resort to humor that is for those six year olds? That to me isn't good writing and since it's intended for adults why would you insult your audiences intelligence by trying to convince them that this should be funny? I think dumbing down the writing isn't what makes good writing. As a matter of fact, a lot of these jokes aren't even in the script or novel, it's like they were just added for the hell of it. I'm not going to get into Monty Python or Tom and Jerry because I love those old shows and compared to the Transformers scripts, those shows were Shakespearian in their subtlety and wit.

 

I can't say for too much certainty, but it seems to me that they really bumped up the level of shock humor and dumbed down jokes. This to me has a LOT less of a place than any swearing the movie has in it. I actually don't care about the swearing because I'm not a Puritan prude, but these dumbed down "Devs Balls" and "BB pissing" and "humping Wheelie" jokes...come on. This is "Transformers", not "There's something about Mary" with giant robots, where we're all wondering how Devs wrecking balls got above his crane. My biggest complaint from what I heard of this film is that it insults the audiences intelligence and that does not make a good science fiction film...not I think Bay really is trying to make a Science Fiction film here, I think he's trying to make an action comedy with explosions that just happens to have giant robots which is also not what Transformers is since at that point you can put any robots in that film and it would be just as generic.

I agree with pretty much everything you say here...this is the direction that I really hoped they wouldn't approach prior to reading all these spoilers. I think I might still like it better than the first once viewed (just based on the shear number of Transformers in it), but I was really hoping for just a little more depth...nothing mind-blowingly thought-provoking, but something more than teen-humor. :shrug

You know, I wasn't going to interject because I was just enjoying reading some spoilers to compare to the script and novel, but I just wanted to add something to this.

 

I can see what you mean about trying to read negative things in those commercials and how it detracts from enjoying things. I understand that. Thing is, I don't see where giant robot testicles and BB pissing on someone is so entertaining.

 

So adults get to watch the origins of their own sense of humor...ok, but why should a movie not intended for those little children laughing at ducks humping in a park have to step so far back and resort to humor that is for those six year olds? That to me isn't good writing and since it's intended for adults why would you insult your audiences intelligence by trying to convince them that this should be funny? I think dumbing down the writing isn't what makes good writing. As a matter of fact, a lot of these jokes aren't even in the script or novel, it's like they were just added for the hell of it. I'm not going to get into Monty Python or Tom and Jerry because I love those old shows and compared to the Transformers scripts, those shows were Shakespearian in their subtlety and wit.

 

I can't say for too much certainty, but it seems to me that they really bumped up the level of shock humor and dumbed down jokes. This to me has a LOT less of a place than any swearing the movie has in it. I actually don't care about the swearing because I'm not a Puritan prude, but these dumbed down "Devs Balls" and "BB pissing" and "humping Wheelie" jokes...come on. This is "Transformers", not "There's something about Mary" with giant robots, where we're all wondering how Devs wrecking balls got above his crane. My biggest complaint from what I heard of this film is that it insults the audiences intelligence and that does not make a good science fiction film...not I think Bay really is trying to make a Science Fiction film here, I think he's trying to make an action comedy with explosions that just happens to have giant robots which is also not what Transformers is since at that point you can put any robots in that film and it would be just as generic.

I agree with pretty much everything you say here...this is the direction that I really hoped they wouldn't approach prior to reading all these spoilers. I think I might still like it better than the first once viewed (just based on the shear number of Transformers in it), but I was really hoping for just a little more depth...nothing mind-blowingly thought-provoking, but something more than teen-humor. :shrug

 

Yeah, it's weird but with kids films we get kids humor, but with some jokes for the adults, and with adult films we get adult humor with kids jokes thrown in as if there always needs to be something for the kids and adults in each film. I thought the idea was that kids needed an adult with them because they were too young to see a movie by themselves in a theater, therefore there still needed to be something for the adult with them to be interesting, therefore, you have some jokes for the adults. But i was also under the impression that a movie intended for adults was just that, so why add kiddie humor to a PG-13 film? for those few kids whose parents will take them to see it? If the intention was to use this movie to sell toys to kids then why not make it a kids film? Why bother to even try to take this seriously at all and make it a PG-13 rated film? I find that that really throws the balance of the film WAY off.

 

Back in the good old days there was Alien, Aliens, Predator 2, Terminator 2, Jurassic Park and aside from Jurassic Park, all those films were R rated and none of them, not EVEN Jurassic Park had Balls jokes or humping jokes. The films were almost squarely for adults but there was a toy line somehow. I mean Aliens f was rated R and was WAY more explicitly violent than anything Transformers ever did. They didn't dumb down that movie to make toy lines for the kids... so what I wanna know is, why they did that with the last ten years or so of action movies? None of those older films were thought provoking epics, but they certainly weren't as dumbed down as Transformers. Hell, even ID4 wasn't as bad as this.

*ignores the argument about bad language*

 

I had the feeling that after TF1, Sam doesn't really have much contact with the other Autobots beyond BB, hence why in RotF, only Prime, BB and the Twins ever really talk to him besides Ironhides "Get to the pillars!!!"

 

I don't mind seeing Transformers that play up to stereotypes. Hell, G1 did it and for me, it's part of the TF franchise.

 

 

I wasn't able to see many hommages to the animated movie, or previous TF things in general. The first movie had tonnes of them, but if RotF had them, they weren't too obvious. Can someone list them, or post ones that they found or thought were hommages?

I seriously find this "dont swear round kids" thing that most have HIGHLY offensive. I dont want a society where words are "naughty" hell man its the adult equivalent of "oooh you just said doodie"... Stop being held back by oldfashioned bull.

 

I can actually honestly say that I agree with you on this.

I seriously find this "dont swear round kids" thing that most have HIGHLY offensive. I dont want a society where words are "naughty" hell man its the adult equivalent of "oooh you just said doodie"... Stop being held back by oldfashioned bull.

 

I can actually honestly say that I agree with you on this.

I can actually honestly say that you guys are f'n hilarious! :bounce Just wait. Now...does somebody wanna tell me what happens to Megs & Screamer after the final battle...do they high tail it to Cybertron or something? I'm wondering if it might be even predictable to figure out where they'll take it from here...

Again I ask...Smirk or no smirk? does "Starscream" emote?!

 

I don't think you will be too dissapointed with him in this movie, his character was very G1.

 

very G1? As in he can smirk menacingly and gets joy out of being a jerk? Details, man. I need details!

Yes it would be quite shocking to hear my future kids swear, but no I wouldn't discourage it. I would try to teach them context. Oh and yes that attitude is O L D, Cursed words Swearing allegiance to Satan, I don't want to be held back by some bishop 200 years ago and neither do I want my kids to be. We are an enlightened society and as such I would want my kids to make up their own minds on what language to use.

 

 

.

You cant advance society by stagnating it.

You can call it old, that's fine. Others, including myself, might call it civil. I'm not even gonna drag religion & politics into this one...that's just asking for attacks! What I will say though is that I'm willing to acknowledge that you can't advance society by stagnating it (however that might be interpreted)...but society also ceases to exist if there's no civility towards one another & chaos ensues, wouldn't you agree? Honestly, this is a philosophical disagreement that should be taken to another thread...probably not even on TFormers.com! :thumb

 

I think I'd much rather get back to spoilers...just for some odd reason felt the need to intercede...probably because I've got kids.

 

How 'bout those Cons pussing out! :bounce

 

 

I couldn't agree more with you there, civil you hit the nail on the head!! Yes you cannot advance society by stagnating it, as you say society also ceases to to exist if there's no civility. Curse words are not the old peoples belief of an allegiance to Satan... it's just good manners not to, it has nothing to do with religion!!! It's a sign of a civilised human being not to have to resort to swearing, you wouldn't do it at work, college or school. That my friend is the sign of an enlightened society, something i will encourage in my kids, yes they will make their own choices in life in the future but if i can teach them the values of respect and how to be civilised, I know they will make the right choices in life.

 

I tend too agree, this debate doesn't belong in this forum... THE LONG AND THE SHORT OF IT IS THIS.... TRANSFORMERS IS A MICHAEL BAY MOVIE.... WE ALL KNOW FROM HIS PREVIOUS MOVIES WHAT TO EXPECT! ARMAGEDDEN AND BAD BOYS FOR EXAMPLE!! BIG BUDGET, LOTS OF ACTION, BLOWING STUFF UP, CAR CHASES, GENERAL CHAOS, SHORT ON STORY, PRETTY LADIES AND TOILET HUMOUR!! WE ALL KNOW HIS TRIED AND TESTED FORMULA!!

 

We can sit here a belly ache about how he hasn't done character x,y and z justice, how they didn't give a character enough screen time, it doesn't matter who directed this not everyone was gonna be happy! But Michael Bay was the director!! And he did it THE ONLY WAY HE KNOWS, this film was never gonna be an oscar winner for the story. But he's a proven winner at the box office time and time again, he'll never be a Peter Jackson or a Martin Scorcesse. But who is the first director you think of when it comes to big loud crazy movies...???

I for one love his films, why because I can sit down relax and leave my brain at the door, cos that's what you get with his movies... Transformer's was always gonna be a tough crowd to keep happy, I grew up on G1 and it will always be the true transformers to me, others grew up with armada and other incarnations of it, younger kids will base their love on these movies, just as Peter Jackson brought a new generation of fans to Lord of the Rings.

We can debate to the cows come home on it's suitability for kids, toy lines, videogames etc... it's called marketing...George Lucas pioneered it with Star Wars, every mayor movie franchise does it, Star Wars, Star Trek, Terminator, X Men, Batman, Spiderman... you get the picture, it doesn't matter whether the movie's suitable for kids or not, they find a target market, action figures for kids, videogames for teenagers and so on. It's just so happens that Transformers is based on a toy line, so there was always gonna be action figures!

 

FOR ALL YOU AMERICAN FANS, GO SEE IT PLEASE, IT'S A FANTASTIC ROLLERCOASTER RIDE, AN ASSAULT ON ALL YOUR SENSES, IT A FUN MOVIE, A LITTLE SHORT ON STORY, THE CGI IS AMAZING AND A VAST IMPROVEMENT ON THE ORIGINAL, THE WOW FACTOR IS NOT AS HIGH, BUT YOU'D EXPECT THAT AS WE'D NEVER SEEN THE LIKE OF THIS BEFORE THE FIRST ONE. IF YOUR EXPECTING ANOTHER LORD OF THE RINGS LOOK ELSEWHERE!

It's Michael Bay, you should know what to expect! There's no point debating anymore, and get back to the SPOILERS!

 

 

YES AND AT THE END A MEGATRON WITH HALF A FACE DOES RETREAT UNDER STARSCREAMS ADVICE "cowards do run, but cowards also live" OR SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT, TO WHICH MEGATRON SAYS IN THE GENERAL DIRECTION OF PRIME "Its not over" STARTS TO CLIMB UP A WALL - CUTS TO NEXT SCENE

Again I ask...Smirk or no smirk? does "Starscream" emote?!

 

I don't think you will be too dissapointed with him in this movie, his character was very G1.

 

very G1? As in he can smirk menacingly and gets joy out of being a jerk? Details, man. I need details!

 

No more sort of insincere, cowering like a dog, in front of megatron knowing what megatron could do to him, but at the same time, full of sarcasim and a hint of betrayal in his eyes, very much like the G1 dynamic. The sly coward, willing to bide his time! Would says smirk as such, but you can certainly with his face a whole combined with the voice acting.