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Creating a common system for counting TFs; Article 20


Goktimus Prime

How should customs be counted?  

38 members have voted

  1. 1. Counting customs

    • All customs count
      20
    • Repaints and slight retools count but kitbashes don't
      3
    • Only repaints/retools for repair & cosmetic improvement count
      4
    • None of them count
      11


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Hmm well when do the polls close?

I haven't placed a set closing time on it... *shrug* The 2009 poll will probably be conducted around mid-year so you have some time yet. I'll let you all know when I've decided to collate the results from this poll. :)

 

Here's my question: If we are just talking about how many TFs members on this board have.

What if Collector A has purchased TFA-Vgr Prime 20 times, And 1 Custom Designed HeartsofSteel Engine Prime.

 

And Collector B has 20 Different Vgr Figures?

 

Who's collection counts? I get the impression that by using this chart - person B would be allowed to claim 20 Transformers in their collection.

 

Meanwhile A would only be able to claim 1 1/3 figures.(depending on what you all think my custom is worth).

 

But both collectors are obviously passionate about their hobby and Collector A has spent just as much if not MANY TIMES more Money and energy on his collection of MIBs and Customs.

 

Shouldnt' the count simply be:

A = 21

B = 20

??

 

Under Article10 multiples count, so those 20 Voyager Animated Optimus Primes count as 20 Transformers. A person with 20 different Voyagers also counts as 20 Transformers. The ambiguity is whether or not that custom designed Hearts of Steel Prime would count or not, which is the entire purpose of this current poll. :)

 

How do you tell people like Jin and F_R and DLP and VTS that they actually only own like 3 transformers cause the other 1-Billion figures in their collection don't meet some

obtuse counting scheme?

I don't. Those guys can count their Transformers ANY way they like. We all can. But if they want to participate in the annual survey then they must abide by the UCM in order to give us comparable results.

 

Think of the UCM as a common language for counting Transformers. It's like speaking a common language or playing under a common code of rules for a game or sport. If you don't like the way a certain language sounds or functions, then you can choose not to speak it (even if you live in that language community - there are plenty of people who live in English speaking countries that don't speak English and you'll find the same all around the world... and we can't force them to speak English if they don't want to, it's their choice!) Likewise if you don't like the rules for a certain game, then don't watch or play it! I dislike any kind of football that isn't soccer. So I don't follow or play them. Simple as that.

 

Someone doesn't like the UCM to the extent that they never want to use it? Fine by me. Just do NOT participate in the annual survey. If you want to participate in the survey then you MUST use the UCM rules. No sensible person would sign up for a rugby league team expecting everyone to follow the rules of national football (soccer) and demand the rugby league referee to enforce national football rules!

 

I use the 'If Hasbro/Takara gave it a name on the package, then its counted as an individual bot' method. Every minicon is counted individually, every bot is counted individually. I'm ok with customs and such being counted because technically, the core body is still an authentic Transformer (in most cases).

Fair enough - I guess under your method you would count Nebulans and Action Master Partners too (e.g.: Aimless, Vorath, Arcana, Firebeast, Vanguard etc.). What about nameless Mini-Cons like the one that forms Energon Omega Supreme's head? Anyway, if that's how you like to count your TFs then more power to you. As I said, the UCM is only for comparative purposes for the survey.

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I myself count individual robots: Mini-cons, Microns, Micomasters, Nebulans, etc... like in the Armada line Hotshot with Jolt to me this counts as 2. As for gestalts I don't count the combine form but within my catalog I do note the gestalt name on a sperate line and also mark complete if I have all of them. The only base that I count as individuals is metroplex for me this one counts as 3 I dont count slammer but is noted.

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I myself count individual robots: Mini-cons, Microns, Micomasters, Nebulans, etc... like in the Armada line Hotshot with Jolt to me this counts as 2. As for gestalts I don't count the combine form but within my catalog I do note the gestalt name on a sperate line and also mark complete if I have all of them. The only base that I count as individuals is metroplex for me this one counts as 3 I dont count slammer but is noted.

 

I would count the combiner form gestalt name as a separate entity in and of itself. Mainly because, it's another aspect to the transformations of the characters. Devastator for instance isn't Devastator until all the Constructicons merge I know this, but he is a separate entity from the individual parts.

 

I wouldn't count the whole Energon/Superlink combining two Autobots into one and saying you suddenly have a new Transformer. That's not what that was about in the series even. There wasn't a new personality createdd when that happened. JMO

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How you folks would like to personally count your gestalts, combiners, Mini-Cons etc. is entirely up to you. As far as the UCM is concerned voters have elected that gestalt robots do not count separately (so Devastator counts as 6, not 7), Nebulans don't count individually but individual Mini-Cons and Micromasters do. We all voted on this back when the UCM was first started and that's the result of our votes.

 

Let us now focus on the topic of this thread and discuss the counting of customs for the UCM.

 

If you want to discuss anything else please do so in a more relevant thread. Thank you.

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You can't 'conceptually' count your Transformers...you count how many you 'physically' possess. There are 6 constructicons...you ask, "but what about Devastator?"...he's made up of 6 CONSTRUCTICONS...THAT'S IT! You either count the individual bots that make up the gestalt, or you subtract those & count the single gestalt...they both can't physically exist on your shelf at the same time (unless of course, you own duplicates). As far as customs being counted...I say "YES"! You're purchasing a figure (or more) to create a modified version of a particular character, so yeah...I think it's worth counting...one count per custom though, no matter how many different parts you had to buy to make it!

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You can't 'conceptually' count your Transformers...you count how many you 'physically' possess. There are 6 constructicons...you ask, "but what about Devastator?"...he's made up of 6 CONSTRUCTICONS...THAT'S IT! You either count the individual bots that make up the gestalt, or you subtract those & count the single gestalt...they both can't physically exist on your shelf at the same time (unless of course, you own duplicates). As far as customs being counted...I say "YES"! You're purchasing a figure (or more) to create a modified version of a particular character, so yeah...I think it's worth counting...one count per custom though, no matter how many different parts you had to buy to make it!

 

I agree it doesn't matter how many figures you took parts from to make it 1 custom character= 1 figure. I don't care if you make Autobot X using 2 figures or 6 it is still 1 figure for counting purposes.

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You can't 'conceptually' count your Transformers...you count how many you 'physically' possess. There are 6 constructicons...you ask, "but what about Devastator?"...he's made up of 6 CONSTRUCTICONS...THAT'S IT! You either count the individual bots that make up the gestalt, or you subtract those & count the single gestalt...they both can't physically exist on your shelf at the same time (unless of course, you own duplicates). As far as customs being counted...I say "YES"! You're purchasing a figure (or more) to create a modified version of a particular character, so yeah...I think it's worth counting...one count per custom though, no matter how many different parts you had to buy to make it!

 

 

You can't 'conceptually' count your Transformers...you count how many you 'physically' possess. There are 6 constructicons...you ask, "but what about Devastator?"...he's made up of 6 CONSTRUCTICONS...THAT'S IT! You either count the individual bots that make up the gestalt, or you subtract those & count the single gestalt...they both can't physically exist on your shelf at the same time (unless of course, you own duplicates). As far as customs being counted...I say "YES"! You're purchasing a figure (or more) to create a modified version of a particular character, so yeah...I think it's worth counting...one count per custom though, no matter how many different parts you had to buy to make it!

 

I agree it doesn't matter how many figures you took parts from to make it 1 custom character= 1 figure. I don't care if you make Autobot X using 2 figures or 6 it is still 1 figure for counting purposes.

 

I agree with these guys :pfx

 

If duplicate transformers count - then 90% of customs are essentially a duplicate transformer.

 

As for scratchbuilds? I don't know I guess if you don't have a seperate special category for it - then they should count as well.

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If duplicate transformers count - then 90% of customs are essentially a duplicate transformer.

By that logic I would say that repaints counts, but kitbashes/scratchbuilds don't. After all, you could scratchbuild a Transformer from non-Transformer toys like KOs, Roadbots, model kits, Gundams etc. which would conflict with Article01 (stating that only official/legit TF products count). Unless you were to state that scratchbuilds can only count if constructed from parts of legit TFs.

 

Someone on another board submitted the argument that repaints can count because they can be easily restored into their original state. i.e.: if you strip the paint you get the original toy. Kitbashes don't count because they cannot be easily restored. If you purchased a kitbash composed of various parts of several different Transformers and other toys, even if you strip the paint and disassembled it you couldn't restore it back to its original state ... depending on how extensive the modification has been and whether or not you have the other parts of those toys to restore them. Either way, it is absolutely not a simple effort to restore it as you would with a custom.

 

Looking at the examples I've provided, if you stripped the paint off Lexicon you could easily restore the reissue Goldbug toy underneath. But I wouldn't be able to restore Goktimus Primal into Optimus Primal. You'd have to find a spare Optimus Primal head and shoulder pads.

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if scratchbuilt "transformers" count then we may as well just throw the results on a fire

 

 

also:

this "custom" debate falls under 2 categories:

  • A: do junkers/incomplete bots (C7+ or w/e it is) count?
  • B: do doubles count?

if A = yes then customs count

if B = yes then the original unmodified bot can be counted too

 

it really is that simple

 

 

i still think a "checklist" method would be far more logical... just saying

 

just saying :roll

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