Creating a common system of counting TFs Part 1

[FreedomGundam]

[...]

Infact, I see it as a head count if you will. (Oh and if anyone says, "My Beast Wars figures have two heads, so do they count as two?" i will kill them. You know what I mean.)

On the other side of the coin, G1 Blot doesn't really have a head... :tflaugh

[Artimus Gigan]

I count every sentient being as a Tf. ie: Nebulons and Mini cons each count as one. However a Headmaster does NOT count as two since without the Nebulon the Tf would have no head and suck. The same goes for Armada Overload and Energon magnus. They both count as one.

As for Pretender shells and action Master weapons/bases. They arent alive so don't count.

Roller (Optimus Prime's buggy thing) doesn't count either because according to Prime's profile he is a part of him and does not have his own sentience. Same goes for Trypticon's Full-Tilt.

Full Tilt Transforms into another robot though, I could him the same way I count Six gun or Scamper

 

if it transforms/combines in some major fashion and is sperately named then it counts in my book

 

Headmaster bodies formed mechanized animals which can count as two(ie. Zoids are just mechanized animals)

 

The Vehicles can also count since there are mechs constructed out of Vehicles that only become a bodypart(i.e. Zords)

 

The Action master Weapons only count if it's some sort of mech creature/thing that transforms

 

smaller non-sentient robots are still robots too!

 

I would count oddities like BWN Magmatron as three since they function as separate stand alone things when not transformed and are individually named, even though they form one Bot when fully transformed(it's a Zord rule)

[Elrod the Albino]

If you had two minicons from a set, you couldn't sell it as complete. The same goes for a Nebulan. If I had a Misfire that didn't have Aimless, it would be incomplete. I certainly wouldn't post an Aimless on eBay and say 95% COMPLETE---ONLY MISSING MISFIRE! L@@K!!! now would I?

 

Keep in mind that this poll is not about counting characters, it is about counting toys. One should only count what was individually packaged. You would count a gestalt as 5-6 bots because that was how it was packaged. Shuffler, Kirk etc were packaged alone, hence that is how they count. Landcross is three bots, not 6. Soundwave & Buzzsaw, Fastlane & Cloudraker, Frenzy & Laserbeak (gasp!), Powertrain-Tote-Mudslinger-Highjump are all singles, since that is how they were packaged. I realize that we all want to feel like we have more toys, you Armada dweebs in particular, but if you just counted the toy the way a MIB type would it would make things a hell of a lot easier.

 

BTW AM partners did have personalities. Glitch was quite interesting actually.

 

Fun Facts!

Not counting variants, US G1 consists of:

 

318 Different packaged toys (two tapes one package, etc)

 

212 Indivdual Autobots

 

169 Individual Decepticons

 

476 Different charachters

 

1076 Different transformations (not including "Scrambling")

 

1761 different items if you count every bot and every accessory.

 

 

 

 

Holy freaking crap Artimus! Don't you dare bring Zord rules into this!

[Teh INTERNETS ^_^]

Sounds like Artimus is trying to boost his collection number...

 

I don't agree with the package rule. Would that mean my Starscream/Vector Prime 2 pack only counts as one? I don't think so.

To that extent its like saying someone who bought all 6 Constructicons seperately has 6 toys while the guy who bought the gift set only has one.

[Goktimus Prime]

...again with this...instead of making 50 trillion threads why can't we just stick to one and work with that?

Because nobody can decide on which "one" we should stick with should be. I offered a choice of four models and we still had a lot of people complaining about how they didn't like any of them, blah blah blah. We will probably never create a system that will universally appeal to all collectors, but I'm trying to create a system that will appeal to at least most collectors. And if we create a system democratically we can at least say to people, "look, this is a system of counting based on what most people felt was the most appropriate way of doing it" -- I think we would get far less opposition and resentment against a system if it is created by the people for the people.

 

Yes, it's going to require a lot of threads to make it, but think of it this way - it's the series of threads to end all threads about this issue. After the polls have finished, we can say to people, "this is the system that was created based on poll results, now STFU" -- even if some individuals may disagree with what we create in the end, they cannot argue with the methodology used in creating it. I for one am growing tired of debating over TF classification and counting systems, so let this be the last series of debates over this issue as we decide a system that we can all (or at least most of us) agree upon.

 

It will take a while, yes, but I ask for your patience. It'll sure beat repeating this argument a few months later.

 

On the other hand, if I ended up with headmasters Shuffler, Loafer, or Kaku/Kirk, I'd sure as damn hell would want to count those rare pieces in my TF-count... (yeah, I know that's kinda contradictory, and doesn't push the Nebulan argument in either direction...)

I think most of us would agree that the Japanese Headmaster robots that were sold separately don't count in the same class as "Nebulans" due to the very different nature in their marketing, as Elrod pointed out.

 

For the purposes of this poll we won't count them as Nebulans. Nebulans = binary bonded partners sold with larger Transformers/Transtectors.

 

actually why don't you settle this the easy way. headmaster bodys count as 1/2 while their heads count as 1/2. problem solved :-P

See, a Headmaster missing its Nebulan is essentially still a Transformer, just missing an extremely important accessory. But it's still a Transformer. For example, Optimus Prime's fists are important accessories that are often lost by kids, but most people would count a fistless Optimus Prime. Granted that a head is a more important accessory, it is still in spirit the same as losing the fists to a Transformer -- just on a higher level. The toy still transforms from robot to alt mode and back.

 

If you had a Nebulan but no Transformer, then you don't have a functional Transformer. It transforms from humanoid to a component of another robot and back.

 

If you had two minicons from a set, you couldn't sell it as complete

Tell that to Hasbro. :P The current wave of Cybertron Mini-Cons are from mis-matched sets. I think Mini-Cons should count separately because they do function as meaningful Transformers in their own right. For example, if you only had Jetstorm, sure you can't form the Star Sabre, but you do have a Transformer who can transform from a meaningful alt mode (jet) to robot and back. So it counts as a separate Transformer. The Star Sabre is just a gestalt weapon - just because you don't have the other members doesn't mean you can't count the individual. For example, if you only have two Constructicons you can count them as two Transformers - it doesn't matter if you don't have the other four to form Devastator. You can sell two Mini-Cons from a set, you just may not get as much for them. These kinds of TFs tend to sell better as sets, e.g.: all five Dinobots sold as a single lot tend to go for higher prices than selling them individually.

 

Sounds like Artimus is trying to boost his collection number...

I agree. I think counting Nebulans, Pretender Shells, AM Weapons and smaller peripheral robots such as Scamper, Full Tilt etc is just a really cheap way of boosting your collection count. Real, real CHEAP imho. d:

 

What next? Should we count the Star Wars Transformers pilots separately??

 

I don't agree with the package rule. Would that mean my Starscream/Vector Prime 2 pack only counts as one? I don't think so.

To that extent its like saying someone who bought all 6 Constructicons seperately has 6 toys while the guy who bought the gift set only has one.

Yeah, I agree. I got my Cybertron Soundwave in a 2-pack with Dark Crumplezone, and by 2-pack, I mean the store just attached the two boxes together with packaging tape. I would disagree with counting them as 1. This should be about counting toys, not packages. What about people who acquire their figures loose?

[siburke939]

No "Nebulans & AM Weapons count, but Pretender Shells don't" option?

 

Poll fails.

[FreedomGundam]

I know some people like to think of it as: "as long as it transforms to and from something meaningful on its own, it should be counted." Putting aside the debates that can be started from different interpretations of the word "meaningful", this strategy causes a lot of problems on its own when looking at the large picture:

 

- Headmasters wouldn't be counted, Targetmasters would be. Powermasters probably wouldn't be, but they're still somewhat of a gray area. The Nebulan issue is thus still not solved.

- The usual Pretender shells are definitely not counted, but what about transformable shells like Thunderwing, who can transform (albeit poorly) from robot to jet, even though the shell is still "part of" the character of Thunderwing?

- By strict definition of this counting strategy, ActionMasters would not be counted since they don't transform, but then their gear/vehicles would be? It would be very weird to count AM Optimus Prime's truck, but not AM Optimus Prime himself...

- Bases are again, a really screwy area: Groundshaker and his tank/base: both transform to and from fully meaningful forms...

- Super Ginrai/Powermaster Prime: 1, 2 or 3 TFs? :P

[Elrod the Albino]

The Vector Prime/Starscream 2 pack is still two toys because you could buy VP seperately. The '92 two packs of Machroad and Darjet etc. could be counted as two because they were released individually in the other markets.

 

The Amada minicons were released differently and were different toys than the repaints from Cybertron. Each A 3pack is one toy and each C 2 pack is one toy. Again, notice that I agreed that a gestalt is 5/6 toys because although you could buy them in a boxset, they could also be purchased individually. On the other hand. Battle Gaia is one toy. Which makes sense because who gives a crap about the individuals from that set anyway?

[Artimus Gigan]

Sounds like Artimus is trying to boost his collection number...

 

I don't agree with the package rule. Would that mean my Starscream/Vector Prime 2 pack only counts as one? I don't think so.

To that extent its like saying someone who bought all 6 Constructicons seperately has 6 toys while the guy who bought the gift set only has one.

Nah, I've got a very very large collection of Mecha allready if I were just to count all of the G1 figures I own as sets I would still have over 100

 

but they're not all transformers, so I try and do a universal count

 

Usually if it can form it's own self functioning thing be it humanoid,vehicle, or animal shaped I usually count it

 

Vehicles that form parts to larger mecha are still mecha

 

I've even got books that refer to them as so

 

If it's an individual robot it still counts, teams of robots are still count as multiple robots even if they form a larger thing. because they can be displayed individualy and separate from each other

 

Also a many of the Armada Minicons came repacked in many forms which split up the teams

 

Allthings considered I've got a few Hundred individual Minicons in my collection which seem to really boost numbers within a small ammount of space, I've got Unicron full of Japanese Exclusive Minicons just on all his wing ports. So that's like 24, with unicron's minicon that's 25 and Unicron himself is 26. That's more than a quarter of a hundred in the place of one bot. And I've got the team that consists of nothing but Sparkplug repaints. Reapaints of Sparkplug who was originally an indivudual minicon. So I really can't count that minicon team as one. It's the same toy just a different color.

[Goktimus Prime]

And I've got the team that consists of nothing but Sparkplug repaints. Reapaints of Sparkplug who was originally an indivudual minicon. So I really can't count that minicon team as one. It's the same toy just a different color.

But they're also meant to be different characters with different names, so why not count them individually?

 

No "Nebulans & AM Weapons count, but Pretender Shells don't" option?

Well, I'll count that as one vote for "Nebulans & AM Weapons count but Pretender Shells don't." If anyone else would like to elect this option, please post a reply and say so and I'll count it manually and compare it alongside the other options.