Eh, I have seen those things on the Discovery channel. In fact I knew what he was supposed to be as soon as I saw the proto, but to my knowledge, none of those real-life digging machines have ever looked like a guy on his hands and knees about to be...

 

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He is NOT on his hands and knees! He is not in the "doggy style" position. His transformation is actually a bit more complex and there' s lots of twisting, turning, and bending.

 

ya, we know that, he still looks like he is though.

 

 

But it has limited  On a toy level, part of the fun for me is seeing how the designers will make a real-life object or vehicle work as a transforming robot. When they don't have that challenge, I think they can get lazy.

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That is exactly right, and that is what I have a problem w/.

 

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That is a better expression of I think the problem people actually have with such things instead of saying "it's not in disguise!"

 

BUT... if a great robot mode and questionable alt mode is lazy... aren't guys like Crosswise and Downshift lazy designs in the reverse direction? Perhaps Metroplex looks like too much of a robot in alt mode, but Crosswise and Downshift look like robots with miscellaneous car parts stuck all over their body.

 

Now people may prefer that aesthetic, and I probably do, but it's a bit hypocritical to think of the designers as "lazy" when they emphasize bot over alt mode and not when they emphasize alt mode over bot.

 

If Metroplex's alt mode gets slag for being unrealistic, shouldn't Downshift get the same slag for his chest being completely impractical in robot mode?

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imo, downshift is one of the best bots to come along in a LONG time, and it's not just because his alt mode is super realistic (he realy could be a scaled down alternator) but also because his bot mode makes EXCELLENT use of his kibble and reminds me alot of the g1 bots.  as for autovolt.... either you like him or you don't... his kiblle realy isn't that bad imo, but his roof shield gets on my nerves, i don't mind the doors on the shoulders, tf's have had those since g1 and his lil wing things don't realy look like kibble so alls well.  the thing i think alot of ppl have with megalo convoy and moledive is that they don't look like anything.  megalo convoy might have some resemblence to a digging machine, but just enough so that you get the idea, he still looks like a person bent over ready to recieve.  as for mole dive..... he just doesn't resemble ANYTHING.  it just feels like laziness on the designer's behalf.

Eh, I have seen those things on the Discovery channel. In fact I knew what he was supposed to be as soon as I saw the proto, but to my knowledge, none of those real-life digging machines have ever looked like a guy on his hands and knees about to be...

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

He is NOT on his hands and knees! He is not in the "doggy style" position. His transformation is actually a bit more complex and there' s lots of twisting, turning, and bending.

 

ya, we know that, he still looks like he is though.

 

 

But it has limited  On a toy level, part of the fun for me is seeing how the designers will make a real-life object or vehicle work as a transforming robot. When they don't have that challenge, I think they can get lazy.

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That is exactly right, and that is what I have a problem w/.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That is a better expression of I think the problem people actually have with such things instead of saying "it's not in disguise!"

 

BUT... if a great robot mode and questionable alt mode is lazy... aren't guys like Crosswise and Downshift lazy designs in the reverse direction? Perhaps Metroplex looks like too much of a robot in alt mode, but Crosswise and Downshift look like robots with miscellaneous car parts stuck all over their body.

 

Now people may prefer that aesthetic, and I probably do, but it's a bit hypocritical to think of the designers as "lazy" when they emphasize bot over alt mode and not when they emphasize alt mode over bot.

 

If Metroplex's alt mode gets slag for being unrealistic, shouldn't Downshift get the same slag for his chest being completely impractical in robot mode?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

imo, downshift is one of the best bots to come along in a LONG time, and it's not just because his alt mode is super realistic (he realy could be a scaled down alternator) but also because his bot mode makes EXCELLENT use of his kibble and reminds me alot of the g1 bots.  as for autovolt.... either you like him or you don't... his kiblle realy isn't that bad imo, but his roof shield gets on my nerves, i don't mind the doors on the shoulders, tf's have had those since g1 and his lil wing things don't realy look like kibble so alls well.  the thing i think alot of ppl have with megalo convoy and moledive is that they don't look like anything.  megalo convoy might have some resemblence to a digging machine, but just enough so that you get the idea, he still looks like a person bent over ready to recieve.  as for mole dive..... he just doesn't resemble ANYTHING.  it just feels like laziness on the designer's behalf.

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Beat me to it on both points.

 

Well said Buddykiller.

I have to add something else.  One of the things that really bugs me about alt modes for many TFs is the lack of regard for scale.  Bots on Earth in Cybertron really are trying to hide out, which makes Armorhide for example, in the tiny Scout class, really stick out.  Same with Overhaul.  These guys could have been made in Voyager-class size, putting them in scale with other Bots like Crosswise and Hot Shot, and I would happily have paid $20 for them.  Same with Backstop.  Not only could we have had a figure whose alt-mode was actually scaled to match other Beasts, but he could have been engineered so much better in a larger size.  Although that's not necessarly a guarantee...  Looks at Scourge.  $30 for a brick from Hell.  There were so many wasted opportunities with Scourge... :tfsad

^

Say what you will but I like Scourge for what he is. :tfmad

 

As for scale, you're dead on and I agree %100 with it. The Armadaverse aside I really see the upcoming G1 Neo line already having severe issues with scale. Astrotrain is apparently a shuttle craft and is scaled to a deluxe while Prime is a voyager sized semi. That's seriously goung to throw scale out of whack IMO.

 

Personally I think Hasbro should learn from there mistakes and start building TFs to scale with one another. Even if this means scaling down for various alt molds it would already be huge improvement over miniture army vehicles, and semi trucks. Don't even get me started on the minicon alts.

i don't have an issue with the scale that much, it's been here since g1 soooo it isn't going away anytime soon, but yes, i would have gladly purchased a voyager armorhide

about cyb metroplex. i just gave him a base/city mode and said to hell with the digging crap.

As a kid I always much preferred the realistic alt modes. Before knowing about Diaclone and such I always thought of it as cheapening Transformers when the movie came around and the had these weird futuristic alt modes. Later when I thought of them as Cybertronian alt modes instead of futuristic I somehow liked it better. That's a pretty superficial reason to like or not like something, but that's the vagaries of a person's taste.

 

I'm right there with you. I pretty much only like the ones that look like believable vehicles. The only ones I liked besideds them were the dinobots (I'm a sucker for dinobots) and jetfire (He was just really well made and had so much posibility.

 

However what I don't understand now is the preoccupation with the phrase "robots in disguise". That was a tag line, a minor marketing slogan. Very rarely even in seasons 1 & 2 of G1 has the "disguise" aspect really played up. Did the Dinobots or Omega Supreme ever fool anyone?

 

"Disguise" is really a minor point of the whole TF mythos, it hasn't truely been a main focus before, so why should it be now?

 

I guess I always took the robots in disquise thing pretty seriously. It was what made them special and not just robots being robots.

 

Pasquale

I don't mind the unrealistic alt modes, but only if they look 'cool.

 

For example, one of my favorite G1 'space jet' Decepticons is Misfire (here he is at TFU.info), though to be honest I never owned the toy. I just love the look of his alt mode, even though it is blatantly a 'space' design. Quick question - is he a typical G1 'brick', or does he have any articulation to speak of? Might have to dig him up off of Ebay if he's got at least some art...

 

On the other hand, a really well done realistic alt mode with a good, or at least decent, transform also earns buku points in my book. Armorhide, for example, is and always will be one ofmy faves, and the Alternators nearly made me have to change my shorts the first time I ever saw them.

Yup, alternators pretty much epitimize what TFs shoud be (MP's are even better).

Count me in for preferring realistic alt-modes. Part of the fun of TF for me as a kid was spotting an Autobot on the road (Bumblebee, Ironhide, Bluestreak, Prime) or see something similar in a movie (an F-15). The futuristic/Cybertronic designs of the movie were a big part of what pushed me out of TF entirely by '86.

 

Ironically, today I like both styles. Today I judge robot mode first and alt-mode second. Articulation has really emphasized the robot modes for me. I love Cybertron Sideways, Menasor and Brakedown as much as I do Downshift and Armorhide.

 

As for Armorhide's size, yes it sucks he's so small, but I learned to ignore scale in TFs ages ago. Its just something they will never do properly lol.