Interesting points.

But it has limited application. It seems to me that the purpose of transformation, as it's used in various TF media, is more about additional functionality than actual concealment.

Anyway, a disguise only works one time if you never change it.

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This is a very good point. However, I still prefer TFs w/ realistic alt modes over the ones that are futurist, or even worse, alt modes that only exist so that the bot mode can be really cool, ie Cybertron Prime and Megatron.

 

In that circumstance, the alt mode means almost nothing b/c the figure/character is never in alt mode b/c it looks so bad and the bot mode looks so good. I just think that w/ realistic bot modes, you can get a better balance of quality alt and bot modes.

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I think the issue there is that when the designers can just make up the alt modes, they tend to build them around the bot modes. So you end up with some weird-looking alt mode thing that they justify by calling it "futuristic" or "Cybertronian" (viz. Cybertron Megatron). On a toy level, part of the fun for me is seeing how the designers will make a real-life object or vehicle work as a transforming robot. When they don't have that challenge, I think they can get lazy.

But it has limited application. It seems to me that the purpose of transformation, as it's used in various TF media, is more about additional functionality than actual concealment.

Anyway, a disguise only works one time if you never change it.

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This is a very good point. However, I still prefer TFs w/ realistic alt modes over the ones that are futurist, or even worse, alt modes that only exist so that the bot mode can be really cool, ie Cybertron Prime and Megatron.

 

In that circumstance, the alt mode means almost nothing b/c the figure/character is never in alt mode b/c it looks so bad and the bot mode looks so good. I just think that w/ realistic bot modes, you can get a better balance of quality alt and bot modes.

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I think the issue there is that when the designers can just make up the alt modes, they tend to build them around the bot modes. So you end up with some weird-looking alt mode thing that they justify by calling it "futuristic" or "Cybertronian" (viz. Cybertron Megatron). On a toy level, part of the fun for me is seeing how the designers will make a real-life object or vehicle work as a transforming robot. When they don't have that challenge, I think they can get lazy.

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:pfx

 

Makes me think of C. Metroplex and C. Menasor

But it has limited application. It seems to me that the purpose of transformation, as it's used in various TF media, is more about additional functionality than actual concealment.

Anyway, a disguise only works one time if you never change it.

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This is a very good point. However, I still prefer TFs w/ realistic alt modes over the ones that are futurist, or even worse, alt modes that only exist so that the bot mode can be really cool, ie Cybertron Prime and Megatron.

 

In that circumstance, the alt mode means almost nothing b/c the figure/character is never in alt mode b/c it looks so bad and the bot mode looks so good. I just think that w/ realistic bot modes, you can get a better balance of quality alt and bot modes.

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I think the issue there is that when the designers can just make up the alt modes, they tend to build them around the bot modes. So you end up with some weird-looking alt mode thing that they justify by calling it "futuristic" or "Cybertronian" (viz. Cybertron Megatron). On a toy level, part of the fun for me is seeing how the designers will make a real-life object or vehicle work as a transforming robot. When they don't have that challenge, I think they can get lazy.

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That is exactly right, and that is what I have a problem w/.

 

That is why they are fun for me too. I don't know how long I stared at the designs of MPSS to see if I could figure out how they are going to do his transformation. That figure fascinates me and I haven't even see a picture of the prototype yet.

 

unicron's blues even picked out some of the worst offenders. I haven't seen Metroplex in person yet, but I think it is safe to say that figure was built as a robot first and then the designers just added some bits to make it look kinda sorta not really at all like a digging machine.

...That Is what those digging machines look like.

Ugly as sin, manouverable as a brick but damned cool as robots apparently.

I'm actually OK with alt modes that add functionality rather than disguise, as long as there's some reason to back it up.  All the Speedia bots, for the most part, have sleek racer bodies, not to hide from their peers but rather for competition purposes.  For a group that has no real enemies to speak of (at least before Megatron arrives) this makes a bit of sense.  Those left behind on Cybertron wouldn't have much use for disguises either.  In MTMTE we see the Autobots' alt modes are useless for hiding, but useful for getting around and occasionally hauling things.  Some Cons (such as Soundwave) have useful disguises but that could be as much a lack of diligence on the Bots' part for not noticing him, as it is his powers of disguise.  The only place the use of an alt mode for disguise really comes into play is on Earth and some of the series so far have pretty much discarded the idea of robots hiding from humanity within the first few eps.  In G1 EVERYBODY knew who the TFs were--by the time of TFTM the Autobots had a freakin' CITY (although individual TFs might not have been noticed in alt mode) and in Energon it seems there's no purpose at all for Alt modes, since they hardly ever use them (which I believe has more to do with the animators showing off their cel-shading skills than actual storyline).  I like realistic alt modes where feasible, as with Earth-bound TFs, but functional forms for those off-Earth are okay too.  Now if we want to get into wonky, ridiculous alt modes like Cyb Metroplex that don't really look like anything then that's another discussion.

I'm actually OK with alt modes that add functionality rather than disguise, as long as there's some reason to back it up.  All the Speedia bots, for the most part, have sleek racer bodies, not to hide from their peers but rather for competition purposes.  For a group that has no real enemies to speak of (at least before Megatron arrives) this makes a bit of sense.  Those left behind on Cybertron wouldn't have much use for disguises either.  In MTMTE we see the Autobots' alt modes are useless for hiding, but useful for getting around and occasionally hauling things.  Some Cons (such as Soundwave) have useful disguises but that could be as much a lack of diligence on the Bots' part for not noticing him, as it is his powers of disguise.  The only place the use of an alt mode for disguise really comes into play is on Earth and some of the series so far have pretty much discarded the idea of robots hiding from humanity within the first few eps.  In G1 EVERYBODY knew who the TFs were--by the time of TFTM the Autobots had a freakin' CITY (although individual TFs might not have been noticed in alt mode) and in Energon it seems there's no purpose at all for Alt modes, since they hardly ever use them (which I believe has more to do with the animators showing off their cel-shading skills than actual storyline).  I like realistic alt modes where feasible, as with Earth-bound TFs, but functional forms for those off-Earth are okay too.  Now if we want to get into wonky, ridiculous alt modes like Cyb Metroplex that don't really look like anything then that's another discussion.

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YES!!  THIS IS WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING!! :clap

Uh yeah, about that. I'm in the minority apparently.

 

For me personally I'm beginning to consider character as the main selling point over design be it in alt/robot mode. Seeing as the character defines what the toy is I'm starting to really favour the bot mode over the alt mode. I personally don't have a problem with unrealistic alt molds, just as long a they look like something vehicular, The Armadaverse has has a lot of strange and offworldly designs but in the end they for the most part resemble a vehical of sorts. The only recent exceptions I can really think of are Cybertron Metroplex, and Menasor. Not the most elaborate alt molds but at least they have well designed and articulate bot modes which is more than enough for me to like any given TF.

Reguarding current alt molds the Cybertron IMO has easily exceded that of A/E with fairly realistic designs. They may not actually be licensed like the alts but for the most part they look what they are. Various cars/trucks/jets etc etc. If Crosswise, Jetfire, Evac or any of the CD team don't scream realistic to you then feel free to stick with Alts/BTs.

Neo G1 is yet another wave in the A/E/C lineup. Semirealistic as with most of Cybertron so I'm not sure why everyone's so OMFG about it. Looks good yes but as the trend since Armada has suggested improvement was expected. Considering what Armada was everything since has been an improvement in one way or another. Same could I guess be said about G1.

As for colours.  :roll They're kids toys and IMO are coloured appropiately for what they are. Personally I think TFs would look really boring if restricted to realistic colours. Megatron I admit is a bit "Extreme" but I really like what was done with a lot of them as well as the CD team. Guess it's just kid in me refusing to grow up.

FWIW I love the realistic licensed molds for the alt line but for main line toys I think it's best to keep it both different and fun.

Uh yeah, about that. I'm in the minority apparently.

 

For me personally I'm beginning to consider character as the main selling point over design be it in alt/robot mode. Seeing as the character defines what the toy is I'm starting to really favour the bot mode over the alt mode. I personally don't have a problem with unrealistic alt molds, just as long a they look like something vehicular, The Armadaverse has has a lot of strange and offworldly designs but in the end they for the most part resemble a vehical of sorts. The only recent exceptions I can really think of are Cybertron Metroplex, and Menasor. Not the most elaborate alt molds but at least they have well designed and articulate bot modes which is more than enough for me to like any given TF.

Reguarding current alt molds the Cybertron IMO has easily exceded that of A/E with fairly realistic designs. They may not actually be licensed like the alts but for the most part they look what they are. Various cars/trucks/jets etc etc. If Crosswise, Jetfire, Evac or any of the CD team don't scream realistic to you then feel free to stick with Alts/BTs.

Neo G1 is yet another wave in the A/E/C lineup. Semirealistic as with most of Cybertron so I'm not sure why everyone's so OMFG about it. Looks good yes but as the trend since Armada has suggested improvement was expected. Considering what Armada was everything since has been an improvement in one way or another. Same could I guess be said about G1.

As for colours.  :roll They're kids toys and IMO are coloured appropiately for what they are. Personally I think TFs would look really boring if restricted to realistic colours. Megatron I admit is a bit "Extreme" but I really like what was done with a lot of them as well as the CD team. Guess it's just kid in me refusing to grow up.

FWIW I love the realistic licensed molds for the alt line but for main line toys I think it's best to keep it both different and fun.

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I agree w/ the statement that Cybertron has had some really good alt modes. But I think most people would agree that the Cybertron line has made huge improvements over that (for the most part) crap they gave us in Armada and Energon. I am really impressed w/ Crosswise, Jetfire, both Hot Shots, both Scattershots, etc like you said, but why did they have to be so lazy on Metroplex and Menasor. They could have designed them better so that they were so unrealistic. But again, overall, I am very happy w/ the Cybertron line. It is what got me back into mainline collecting.

 

...That Is what those digging machines look like.

Ugly as sin, manouverable as a brick but damned cool as robots apparently.

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Eh, I have seen those things on the Discovery channel. In fact I knew what he was supposed to be as soon as I saw the proto, but to my knowledge, none of those real-life digging machines have ever looked like a guy on his hands and knees about to be...

 

Again, cool bot, bad alt.

Eh, I have seen those things on the Discovery channel. In fact I knew what he was supposed to be as soon as I saw the proto, but to my knowledge, none of those real-life digging machines have ever looked like a guy on his hands and knees about to be...

 

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He is NOT on his hands and knees! He is not in the "doggy style" position. His transformation is actually a bit more complex and there' s lots of twisting, turning, and bending.

 

 

But it has limited  On a toy level, part of the fun for me is seeing how the designers will make a real-life object or vehicle work as a transforming robot. When they don't have that challenge, I think they can get lazy.

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That is exactly right, and that is what I have a problem w/.

 

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That is a better expression of I think the problem people actually have with such things instead of saying "it's not in disguise!"

 

BUT... if a great robot mode and questionable alt mode is lazy... aren't guys like Crosswise and Downshift lazy designs in the reverse direction? Perhaps Metroplex looks like too much of a robot in alt mode, but Crosswise and Downshift look like robots with miscellaneous car parts stuck all over their body.

 

Now people may prefer that aesthetic, and I probably do, but it's a bit hypocritical to think of the designers as "lazy" when they emphasize bot over alt mode and not when they emphasize alt mode over bot.

 

If Metroplex's alt mode gets slag for being unrealistic, shouldn't Downshift get the same slag for his chest being completely impractical in robot mode?