Cus we like debates!  Now back to the dark corner with you!!

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but it's a pointless debate. it's not like the correct answer is still up in the air.

Cus we like debates!  Now back to the dark corner with you!!

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but it's a pointless debate. it's not like the correct answer is still up in the air.

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When has that ever stopped anyone?

Well acording to DW's MTMTE #8 (pg.9):

 

"... stasis pods are primarily used to store newly developed protoforms before they are imbued with a spark and formatted into full functioning mechanoids.  They keep the protoform in total isolation, supported and nurtured by lubricating fluid.  Because of their ability to keep a Transformer dormant with minimal energy loss, stasis pods have also been employed to conserve resources, such as storing crew members during an extended space flight.  Their ability to maintain docility and dormancy has also led to their use in Cybertron's prison and detention systems."

 

And pg.15

 

"... Protoforms can be built to a preplanned schematic before being imbued with life, or they can be allowed to form naturaly upon the introduction of a spark.  There are several methods of granting life to a protoform.  The most ancient and reliable is through the use of the Matrix's power... ( states a few others) ... It is believed that Cybertronians have other untapped potential for creating new life, but it is unclear what missing components are  necessary to complete this system."

... It is believed that Cybertronians have other untapped potential for creating new life, but it is unclear what missing components are  necessary to complete this system."

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They need to learn about the cyberbirds and the cyberbees. The missing component is a mecha-womb.

 

 

 

I won't give this up, will I? :tflaugh

very interesting topic, i have nothing to say.

... It is believed that Cybertronians have other untapped potential for creating new life, but it is unclear what missing components are  necessary to complete this system."

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They need to learn about the cyberbirds and the cyberbees. The missing component is a mecha-womb.

 

 

 

I won't give this up, will I? :tflaugh

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Honestly though Two bots mating to make a third is just plain innefficient.  More likely You'd have a large Factory type setup with a single system making them, more of a hive system.  And being machines upgrades that developed in one version could easily be added to all past and future models if actually desired.  I.E. The Maximal conversion for fuel efficiency.

 

Even if the system did work from two bots merging nanites, I highly doubt the gestation system would be contained in either of them.  Again a seperate safe secure place where the new "Sparks" could develop and then be born would make more sense.  But Considering that nanites would asexually reproduce to begin with, there really wouldn't be any need for two doner parents.  One could reproduce on thier own if it was possible.

Honestly though Two bots mating to make a third is just plain innefficient.  More likely You'd have a large Factory type setup with a single system making them, more of a hive system.  And being machines upgrades that developed in one version could easily be added to all past and future models if actually desired.  I.E. The Maximal conversion for fuel efficiency.

 

Even if the system did work from two bots merging nanites, I highly doubt the gestation system would be contained in either of them.  Again a seperate safe secure place where the new "Sparks" could develop and then be born would make more sense.  But Considering that nanites would asexually reproduce to begin with, there really wouldn't be any need for two doner parents.  One could reproduce on thier own if it was possible.

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So it's more efficient... that don't make it better. I can't see humans being mass-produced in Martian or Jovian factories in 50,000 years.

 

Besides, the best way for a race/species to evolve is through breeding.

Besides, the best way for a race/species to evolve is through breeding.

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Actually, no it isn’t.

 

Breeding is a very inefficient way to evolve. Evolution, after all, is nothing more than the survival of those individuals who are best adapted to a changing environment; and really is a try and fail method. This usually coincides with the dying out of all those who are unfit to live in the new environment and the survival of a few individuals who form the foundation for the adapted species.

 

If rapid change/evolution is required, then breeding is way too slow. And indeed the history of life on earth is rife with examples of successful species who were unable to adapt sufficiently quick to adapt to changes.

 

Suppose mankind starts living in space with fast moving spaceships and weightlessness. Our bodies can’t cope with that. Evolution will in the end get it right, but it will take a VERY long time (and many squished humans). Genetic manipulation (and immediate physical alterations) will get it right almost immediately. Fast and effective.

 

To clarify with TF’s:

 

War breaks out on Cybertron. The Decepticons are built for war (and indeed, in the comics they adapted their bodies to better fight), while the Autobots are not. If breeding was the path of change/evolution, than almost all Autobots would’ve died while those few who had a natural adaption to warfare would’ve survived, needed to breed, the offspring needed to mature and only after all that, could the Autobots fight back against the Decepticons. They would’ve all been slaughtered by then.

 

However, they’re machines. They built new TF’s who are more capable of combat and even adapt their own bodies (e.g. in the Marvel comics this has happened, and more recently in DW MTMTE it was stated that Roadbuster adapted himself to be better able to fight). Micromasters are, according to the comic (both Marvel & DW) an adaptation to the energon depleted times. No waiting for breeding, but building new bodies to suit the new needs.

 

The same also happened with the Maximals. The Maximal upgrade program (as mentioned by Xbob) from the Universe comics, the inclusion of organic replication after they learned there are non-mechanical life forms. When the Maximals/Predacons arrive on pre-historic earth, they don’t start breeding to get organic altmode and maybe after a long time we’ll be able to get outside, no they adapt their bodies.

 

 

So it's more efficient... that don't make it better. I can't see humans being mass-produced in Martian or Jovian factories in 50,000 years.

 

Who knows what the future will bring. I, however, can see a future where the human genome is adapted to better suit the needs of the time. (A nice example of this is Peter F. Hamilton's Nightdawn trilogy. Read it: it's only 4000 pages)

Rawhide is right.

 

So it's more efficient... that don't make it better.

Umm... yes it does! ;)

 

Remember that the entire purpose of sexual reproduction is to increase the genetic variation within a species in order to improve its chances of survival. As Rawhide said, natural selection works by a large proportion of a species being wiped out, but with a select number exhibiting features that allow them to survive where others fallen. For example, the famous story of the London moths during the Industrial Revolution -- the population of white moths were decimated by predators when the Industrial Revolution began, as London was covered in black dirt from factories etc., however the minority of black moths were born with natural camouflage, and they survived and passed their black genes down to successive generations of offspring - thus the moths evolved from white to black.

 

Super robots like Transformers don't do this. If conditions change, they will simply alter their own body. There's just no need for Transformers to reproduce sexually. As machines, they can evolve much faster and far more efficiently by simply reconstructing themselves.

 

Sexual reproduction and natural selection is not only more inefficient, but a random, awkward and incredibly slow form of evolution -- evolution on this planet takes millions and millions of years, with species changing very slowly over an incredibly long period of time... and it doesn't always work out. Some species are unable to adapt to a changed environment and thus face extinction... although sexual reproduction gives you a better chance of surviving environmental change, it's certainly no guarantee against extinction.

 

Transformer evolution on the other hand is faster and far more precise. It's an artificial form of evolution -- when their environment changes, they engineer changes which they implement upon themselves immediately. They're not going to wait for the new upgrades to kick in with their great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandchildren.

 

The initial Transformers who came to Earth aboard the Ark originally had Cybertronian alt modes. They were reconstructed with Earthen modes to adapt to their new surroundings.

The beast Wars TFs would have also had Cybertronian alt modes and only acquired beast modes to adapt to pre-historic Earth, planet Gaea et al. - it's true that we never saw them transform in their pre-Cybertron forms, but their robot modes had no beast kibble on them.

Besides, the best way for a race/species to evolve is through breeding.

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TF's are not organic creatures, they're balls of pure energy that inhabit large metal bodies. they don't need natural evolution since they can just modify their mechanical bodies at will.