actuallybm can fit with the japanese headmasters show.

 

Rodimus kup and blurr went and created a new cybertron. it is more than likely this was a once organic planet that had died and was not recovering (see the generation comic books and jhiaxus' method of creating new cybertrons.)

 

as for the oracle it probably was just Vector Sigma reborn.( it is pretty likely that the autobot scientists (wheeljack, perceptor and others) were capable of creating a new Vector sigma)

The Oracle was the acient Supercomputer that foretold the coming of the Transformers to Cybertron. So it was there before the Transformers were.

 

So that would not match with what is indeed the driving force behind Beast Machines. Everything revolves around the Oracle and its mission for the Maximals: restoring the organic to Cybertron.

The oricle was just a Quint creation

Never knew that. But why did Primal say it was the acient supercomputer that foretold the coming of the Transformers to Cybertron?

 

But if memory serves that is a Botcon comic which is only available to a select audience.  And that would make it an odd choice to be canonical seeing how many fans will never have read it.

 

The Star Trek books and comics are non-canonical as well just to keep thing simple and I apply the same rule to Transformers. Especially if not all the material is available to everyone. If you want something to be canonical at least let all the fans be able to buy it.

 

And during Beast Machines the Oracle did have mythical powers as it did reformat the Maximals and guide Primal. I think it being a Quintesson creation is a pretty lame idea. One would wonder why it happened.

 

I always hated the Quintessons. Can't really say why but I always thought they were lame.

bigds9fan: okay, this is how Transformers canon works - everything produced under official license from Hasbro and/or Takara is official canon. Period. It doesn't mean that they are within the same continuity - after all, even in the Hasbro market we had separate Marvel Comics and Marvel/Sunbow cartoon continuities, yet they are both official canon.

 

Now having said that, Scramble City is meant to tie in with U.S. cartoon continuity. It is set between Season 2 and Transformers the Movie. This was the intention of the writers, and since it was an animation production created by Toei animation (who also animated the US G1 series with Sunbow) and was created under license with Takara, it is official canon. It's basically a form of Expanded Universe, much like how the Marvel UK comics expanded upon the Marvel US comics. This is the second time that I've had to explain this, so let's all pay attention now.

 

"Expansion" canons are ones which are part of a certain continuity, and help to enrich that continuity, but you aren't as essential as the core continuity. For example, you can happily watch only the Star Wars movies without ever reading the books or watching cartoons like Clone Wars... but the movies are arguably cooler to watch if you have EU knowledge. People with no knowledge of EU would have nfi who Aayla Secura is or why the hell General Grievous is coughing and wheezing throughout the movie. No, Scramble City is by no means a terribly good piece of canon or universe expansion, in fact, it's arguably one of the Blottiest stories ever written for the Transformers cartoon - you'll get no argument from me there, but to say that it is not official canon is incorrect.

 

Furthermore, the post 2010 Japanese series are also all official canon. Yes, they do divorce from US G1 continuity and it's arguable that it doesn't fit in with BW/BM - but that is NOT to say that it's unofficial. Again, this series was created by Toei Animation under official license from Takara Co., Ltd - hence it is official canon.

 

So you don't like it. Big deal. Doesn't make it any less canonical. Do not allow your personal opinions or feelings for a show obscure the facts - regardless of what YOU think about Japanese G1, it is still official canon. Don't like it? Fine... don't watch it, your loss. But don't go around saying outright lies like "it's not official."

 

You can't say something isn't official just because you don't like it, ffs. If this were true, then Daniel and Wheelie could arguably be officially non-existent characters!

 

Speaking of which, I think The*Headmasters did a much better job of making Daniel and Wheelie far more worthwhile and useful characters than the U.S. cartoon ever did. Especially regarding Daniel's relationship with Sixshot - one of the coolest little sub-plots in G1 cartoon history IMHO.

My thoughts on this thread:

 

bigds9fan: okay, this is how Transformers canon works - everything produced under official license from Hasbro and/or Takara is official canon. Period. It doesn't mean that they are within the same continuity - after all, even in the Hasbro market we had separate Marvel Comics and Marvel/Sunbow cartoon continuities, yet they are both official canon.

 

Now having said that, Scramble City is meant to tie in with U.S. cartoon continuity. It is set between Season 2 and Transformers the Movie. This was the intention of the writers, and since it was an animation production created by Toei animation (who also animated the US G1 series with Sunbow) and was created under license with Takara, it is official canon. It's basically a form of Expanded Universe, much like how the Marvel UK comics expanded upon the Marvel US comics. This is the second time that I've had to explain this, so let's all pay attention now.

 

"Expansion" canons are ones which are part of a certain continuity, and help to enrich that continuity, but you aren't as essential as the core continuity. For example, you can happily watch only the Star Wars movies without ever reading the books or watching cartoons like Clone Wars... but the movies are arguably cooler to watch if you have EU knowledge. People with no knowledge of EU would have nfi who Aayla Secura is or why the hell General Grievous is coughing and wheezing throughout the movie. No, Scramble City is by no means a terribly good piece of canon or universe expansion, in fact, it's arguably one of the Blottiest stories ever written for the Transformers cartoon - you'll get no argument from me there, but to say that it is not official canon is incorrect.

 

Furthermore, the post 2010 Japanese series are also all official canon. Yes, they do divorce from US G1 continuity and it's arguable that it doesn't fit in with BW/BM - but that is NOT to say that it's unofficial. Again, this series was created by Toei Animation under official license from Takara Co., Ltd - hence it is official canon.

 

So you don't like it. Big deal. Doesn't make it any less canonical. Do not allow your personal opinions or feelings for a show obscure the facts - regardless of what YOU think about Japanese G1, it is still official canon. Don't like it? Fine... don't watch it, your loss. But don't go around saying outright lies like "it's not official."

 

You can't say something isn't official just because you don't like it, ffs. If this were true, then Daniel and Wheelie could arguably be officially non-existent characters!

 

Speaking of which, I think The*Headmasters did a much better job of making Daniel and Wheelie far more worthwhile and useful characters than the U.S. cartoon ever did. Especially regarding Daniel's relationship with Sixshot - one of the coolest little sub-plots in G1 cartoon history IMHO.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

For those of you with short attention spans, this post may be summed up as

 

"I'm easily taken by a marketing company's attempts to string together a 21 year-long animated cartoon to get me to buy more childrens toys. They plan to take me for even more Hasbro dollars in the future."

For those of you with short attention spans, this post may be summed up as

 

"I'm easily taken by a marketing company's attempts to string together a 21 year-long animated cartoon to get me to buy more childrens toys. They plan to take me for even more Hasbro dollars in the future."

 

That statement is unfounded and inaccurate.

 

Hasbro has made little attempt to "string together" original G1 canon - most of these attempts have been done by writers which have been hired by Hasbro/Takara, and even then not necessarily because of HasTak's request. For instance, it was Mainframe Entertainment's decision to tie-in Beast Wars continuity with G1 continuity, not Hasbro's per se. We all remember when Forward and DiTillio started talking to us and using the fans to help them do their G1 research (Hasbro didn't provide them with anything). Hence all the fan-references in the show signs of gratitude for our assistance.

 

Since the end of Beast Machines, HasTak has made no attempt to continue this, and in fact, have instructed writers to create a whole new continuity, starting with Armada/Micron Legend -- and with Galaxy Force we saw the continuity being rebooted again.

 

Yes, Hasbro has given the G1 comic license to Dreamwave and IDW... but "to buy more childrens toys"? First of all, children don't buy G1 Transformers. This is the mistake that Hasbro made with their marketing of their G1 reissues. And with the G1 reissue line now canned, there is no toy marketing reason for Hasbro to give IDW the rights to publish the G1 comics. That's not to say that Hasbro isn't making money from the comics, of course they are... but they certainly aren't selling any more toys with them - not when the comics are showcasing G1 Transformers and they're selling Cybertron figures.

 

And when Hasbro is going to repump the G1 market with next year's movie, you can bet that they're NOT doing anything to string together 22 years worth of G1 canon -- the movie is a complete G1 reboot. Furthermore, the purpose of the movie is NOT to generate further sales of G1 toys. This is not in Hasbro's interest since they no longer directly profit from the sales of G1 figures - Takara would only profit from the sales of their reissues. HasTak will be releasing a new line of Transformers in 2007 based on the movie. The movie's marketing purpose will be to sell this new line, NOT the old figures from 23 years before.

The combiners never played that big a role in the US G1 series. The Decepticons had Devastator as early as season 1.

 

Yet the Autobots continued to beat him even without a combiner of their own. There are plenty of G1 episodes that did not feature the combiners.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

well... grimlock alone would probably stand a good chance against devastator. and there were five dinobots. it doesnt take a combiner to drop a combiner.

 

and daniel and hotrod... i always loved hotrod. daniel never bothered me. but im talking just the movie. now post movie, everyone could have done without them. not to mention grimlock and the other dinobots.

Hot Rod and Daniel were fine in the movie, but Season 3 made me hate Hot Rod/Rodimus - it turned him into a self absorbed whiny Starscream. Daniel didn't bother me too much, except for the Daniel focused episodes.