Question. Was the Earth's population able to see the Energon grid from Earth? If they could wouldn't they had ever questioned WTF was going on?

Perhaps, but flashy red lines in the sky wouldn't necessarily imply giant transforming robots from outer space.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well I never actually directly said that.

Question. Was the Earth's population able to see the Energon grid from Earth? If they could wouldn't they had ever questioned WTF was going on?

Perhaps, but flashy red lines in the sky wouldn't necessarily imply giant transforming robots from outer space.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well I never actually directly said that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Didn't say you did.

 

What I meant was that while the Energon Grid may have been a new and radical concept, it by itself wouldn't inspire large numbers to think Transformers, thus, their presence remained unknown.

Its funny that in every TF series, they have met humans again and again. Armada and Energon were the only ones that actually continued on with it, After Armada the TF made an alliance with the humans and Decepticons and it lasted throughout Energon, they helped them build citites explore space more and all that. Yet in GF/C they hav restarted once again, they never knew the humans, and the Decepticons and Autobot are still battling each other. But now they have three forces, Autobots, Decepticons and Super Starscream. And only the Autobots win in the show. Both big bad dudes, Galvation and Super Starscream are defeated and once again Galaxy Convoy saves the day.

 

Oh the shame of it all, it is always the good guys who seem to come out in the end.

 

And yes i am ranting, i can't help it.

That's why the TF cartoons lack true enjoyment, in real life the good guys rarely win, evil tends to win more often than not.  They should show that in cartoons, teaching kids that good doesn't actual win all the time would be good.  I remember a cartoon when I was younger than showed that good never won, the cartoon is hard to fully remember, all I remember the most from it was that at the end of it's run, the main character, a little girl about ten years old, was killed when she tried to get home.  At the end of the cartoon, her funeral was shown and the cartoon ended.  I don't remember the name of the cartoon though.

 

Tony. 

Good guys win all the time, we merely hear about the bad more because its easier for th media to sell

Okay, so this has gone from who's the best/worst Megatron to which series is the best/worst.

 

I can deal with that.

 

I'm now 26 and as with most of the fandom grew up fairly familiar with Generation 1. Not a whole lot to say about it though I only watched it on occassion when the parents were out. They had a thing against ultra violent cartoons at the time.  :roll Needless to say I saw most of the first two seasons and by the time the film came out grew out of it altogether. Years pass and Transformers finally hit dvd, and i wind up collecting the whole run. My overall impession of G1 is Season 1 is still by far the best. That's where it all began mind you.

 

Season two was an absolute chore to get through. I'd pop in the dvd and get through the first one alright but after that it doesn't take long at all before everything begins to look thr same. Megatron comes up with some rediculous, and overly elaborate plan to rid himself of Prime and the Autobots and in end fails miserably. The best episodes in season two were the absolute WTF one that were outandish and different enough to be fun. "Hoist goes to Hollywood still remains as one of my personal favorites. Another huge problem I had with most of these earlier eps is that there were way too many characters popping up for no other reason than to sell more toys. I am admittingly hating it when a single show has to revolve around 30+ characters at a time in a 20 minute time spot. It's true episodes can revolve around certain characters for a bit but aside from that the show can't get in a lot of back story or character developement. Charaters may learn a valuable lesson at times but aside from that every character remains the same throughout. Not very captivating in my opinion, of course this was meant to entertain elementry aged children.

 

Season 3 I think is hated above all, but personally I liked it a lot better then a lot of what Season two was offering. The huge gripe of course is that Optimus Prime died and replace by Hot Rodimus Prime following the events of the movie. I think season 3 was the first time an ongoing story arc was attempted, and though it too was mostly episodic we were finally getting some on going character development. Rodimus for once is everything Optimus Prime isn't and this at least made him interesting while Galvatron desended from leader of the Decepticons in pure psychosis by the end. Seems to be an on going trend with the character.

 

Season 3 ended with rebirth which in turn led to the Japanese continuation of Head Masters. Can't coment on it though because I have yet to see it. So in the end G1 had a great first season and the third season though not steller finally opened up the concept of taking the show further than the toys and providing conflicted and ongoing characters with a jointed arc beyond just another 20 minute quest for ultimate power. Beastwars continued the trend and in my opinion was a lot more than a mere anomally as somebody blatently put it. Beastwars is Transformers evolved. Never mind the fact that the show was in computer animation let alone the characters had now gone from vehicular to organic what made Beastwars a success over all of that  was that it was finally a show that involved interesting, well thought out characters, and well scripted and exciting storylines opposed to G1 Megatron's schemes involving Energon cubes and what not.

 

Enough on Beastwars I have to sleep yet tonight. What i'm really heated about if anything is how G1 is praised above all and how everything that followed is absolute crap and in no way can compare. Personally I think it's the other way around and that with the right kind of eyes todays shows are by far superior. The Armadaverse is what actually got me back into enjoying and collecting Transformers. To clarify armada by any means is no Beastwars but it carries a lot of the same feel as it. Obnoxious children, and Minicon gimicks aside the characters for the most part are writen with a fair bit of deapth, and are given fairly decent backstorys. What irked me most about G1 in Season two all of these new characters kept showing up with little or explanation. Grapple, and Hoist walk in recognized by Prime and the others and  you're left wondering where the hell did they come from? I really liked how the later series have progressed past that.

 

Who the hell here said the good guys aways win without consequences. Though Prime will eventially win the later shows have shown repeatedly that victory does not come without casualties. Armada is very much a children's show but would have expected to see characters actually die for a change. Smokescreen coming back as Hoist was a bit of a copout but seeing Starscream, and Thrust go the way they did was fairly unexpected. The same could be said for Energon, and Cybertron. As the battles escalate more characters die and not just nameless Terracons. I really wish  Hasbro would get away from reformatting most characters after they die but either way this a lot more realistic than anything portrayed in G1. The only exception being the movie.

 

On the topic of Energon, yes it was crap for the most part but having finished watching Superlink I rather enjoyed it in it's entirety. same could be said for the fansubbed Galaxy Force. Having seen all three I have to honestly say Superlink is easily the strongest and most entertaining of the three. Picking up ten years following Armada Enegon is discovered and a world wide alliance is formed with Cybertron. What really surprised me was the incredible deapth of some of the characters and the storyline in general. The on going arc reminded me a lot of 24 because you had no idea where it will go by the end. To elaborate Alpha Q basically gives you the impression he wants to steel all of earths Energon to revive Unicron when in fact he's only doing it to free his home world. Team Convoy (Prime, and others) see him as an immediate threat in alliance with the Decepticons and pulls out all the stops to thwart him. Scoponok who you imediately see as a badass is a double agent working alongside the decepticons for Alpha Q. Megatron is accidentally revived and formulates a new plan to reactivate Unicron, and chases off Alpha Q who through Kicker is eventially allied with Team Convoy. Alpha Q leaving via Unicron's head revives Nightscream (Starscream) to searve as an assassin to remove both Megatron, and Convoy in exchange for a physical body. Failing to do so though believing he has succeded Alpha Q grants him a physical form and off he goes to kill Megatron. Failing to do so Megatron grants him benevolence and reformats him into his personal Starscream. Convoy knowing the threat buth coexisting Unicron's pose to the Universe heads into space to stop them while Team Rodimus shows up and want nothing more than to have Unicron reactivated. That is all within the first 15 eps of this series. I don't recall any single story in all of  G1 being that indeapth let alone thought out. True the ending was a real WTF/downer it's still pretty good over all.

 

Fact is G1 is I think nostalga driven and not much more. Once any person accepts the fact that Transforners now are no longer MEANT to be G1 they''ll actually discover that the shows Beastwars onward aren't really half as bad they like to think.           

Okay, so this has gone from who's the best/worst Megatron to which series is the best/worst.

 

I can deal with that.

 

I'm now 26 and as with most of the fandom grew up fairly familiar with Generation 1. Not a whole lot to say about it though I only watched it on occassion when the parents were out. They had a thing against ultra violent cartoons at the time.  :roll Needless to say I saw most of the first two seasons and by the time the film came out grew out of it altogether. Years pass and Transformers finally hit dvd, and i wind up collecting the whole run. My overall impession of G1 is Season 1 is still by far the best. That's where it all began mind you.

 

Season two was an absolute chore to get through. I'd pop in the dvd and get through the first one alright but after that it doesn't take long at all before everything begins to look thr same. Megatron comes up with some rediculous, and overly elaborate plan to rid himself of Prime and the Autobots and in end fails miserably. The best episodes in season two were the absolute WTF one that were outandish and different enough to be fun. "Hoist goes to Hollywood still remains as one of my personal favorites. Another huge problem I had with most of these earlier eps is that there were way too many characters popping up for no other reason than to sell more toys. I am admittingly hating it when a single show has to revolve around 30+ characters at a time in a 20 minute time spot. It's true episodes can revolve around certain characters for a bit but aside from that the show can't get in a lot of back story or character developement. Charaters may learn a valuable lesson at times but aside from that every character remains the same throughout. Not very captivating in my opinion, of course this was meant to entertain elementry aged children.

 

Season 3 I think is hated above all, but personally I liked it a lot better then a lot of what Season two was offering. The huge gripe of course is that Optimus Prime died and replace by Hot Rodimus Prime following the events of the movie. I think season 3 was the first time an ongoing story arc was attempted, and though it too was mostly episodic we were finally getting some on going character development. Rodimus for once is everything Optimus Prime isn't and this at least made him interesting while Galvatron desended from leader of the Decepticons in pure psychosis by the end. Seems to be an on going trend with the character.

 

Season 3 ended with rebirth which in turn led to the Japanese continuation of Head Masters. Can't coment on it though because I have yet to see it. So in the end G1 had a great first season and the third season though not steller finally opened up the concept of taking the show further than the toys and providing conflicted and ongoing characters with a jointed arc beyond just another 20 minute quest for ultimate power. Beastwars continued the trend and in my opinion was a lot more than a mere anomally as somebody blatently put it. Beastwars is Transformers evolved. Never mind the fact that the show was in computer animation let alone the characters had now gone from vehicular to organic what made Beastwars a success over all of that  was that it was finally a show that involved interesting, well thought out characters, and well scripted and exciting storylines opposed to G1 Megatron's schemes involving Energon cubes and what not.

 

Enough on Beastwars I have to sleep yet tonight. What i'm really heated about if anything is how G1 is praised above all and how everything that followed is absolute crap and in no way can compare. Personally I think it's the other way around and that with the right kind of eyes todays shows are by far superior. The Armadaverse is what actually got me back into enjoying and collecting Transformers. To clarify armada by any means is no Beastwars but it carries a lot of the same feel as it. Obnoxious children, and Minicon gimicks aside the characters for the most part are writen with a fair bit of deapth, and are given fairly decent backstorys. What irked me most about G1 in Season two all of these new characters kept showing up with little or explanation. Grapple, and Hoist walk in recognized by Prime and the others and  you're left wondering where the hell did they come from? I really liked how the later series have progressed past that.

 

Who the hell here said the good guys aways win without consequences. Though Prime will eventially win the later shows have shown repeatedly that victory does not come without casualties. Armada is very much a children's show but would have expected to see characters actually die for a change. Smokescreen coming back as Hoist was a bit of a copout but seeing Starscream, and Thrust go the way they did was fairly unexpected. The same could be said for Energon, and Cybertron. As the battles escalate more characters die and not just nameless Terracons. I really wish  Hasbro would get away from reformatting most characters after they die but either way this a lot more realistic than anything portrayed in G1. The only exception being the movie.

 

On the topic of Energon, yes it was crap for the most part but having finished watching Superlink I rather enjoyed it in it's entirety. same could be said for the fansubbed Galaxy Force. Having seen all three I have to honestly say Superlink is easily the strongest and most entertaining of the three. Picking up ten years following Armada Enegon is discovered and a world wide alliance is formed with Cybertron. What really surprised me was the incredible deapth of some of the characters and the storyline in general. The on going arc reminded me a lot of 24 because you had no idea where it will go by the end. To elaborate Alpha Q basically gives you the impression he wants to steel all of earths Energon to revive Unicron when in fact he's only doing it to free his home world. Team Convoy (Prime, and others) see him as an immediate threat in alliance with the Decepticons and pulls out all the stops to thwart him. Scoponok who you imediately see as a badass is a double agent working alongside the decepticons for Alpha Q. Megatron is accidentally revived and formulates a new plan to reactivate Unicron, and chases off Alpha Q who through Kicker is eventially allied with Team Convoy. Alpha Q leaving via Unicron's head revives Nightscream (Starscream) to searve as an assassin to remove both Megatron, and Convoy in exchange for a physical body. Failing to do so though believing he has succeded Alpha Q grants him a physical form and off he goes to kill Megatron. Failing to do so Megatron grants him benevolence and reformats him into his personal Starscream. Convoy knowing the threat buth coexisting Unicron's pose to the Universe heads into space to stop them while Team Rodimus shows up and want nothing more than to have Unicron reactivated. That is all within the first 15 eps of this series. I don't recall any single story in all of  G1 being that indeapth let alone thought out. True the ending was a real WTF/downer it's still pretty good over all.

 

Fact is G1 is I think nostalga driven and not much more. Once any person accepts the fact that Transforners now are no longer MEANT to be G1 they''ll actually discover that the shows Beastwars onward aren't really half as bad they like to think.             

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Allright, aside from this whole thread being based on opinion and preference, here's some fact :

 

Everyone has an opinion.  Most, for one reason or another, differ in some way from everyone else's. 

 

I would commend Loki for stating what he likes and doesn't like from the various TF series. 

 

HOWEVER, I would take issue with this part ...

 

Fact is G1 is I think nostalga driven and not much more. Once any person accepts the fact that Transforners now are no longer MEANT to be G1 they''ll actually discover that the shows Beastwars onward aren't really half as bad they like to think.             

 

That's an over-generalization.  There are many reasons for a person to prefer one series over another.  G1 is no different. 

 

In my particular case, I prefer the original series. 

 

First reason : I don't like season or series long storylines.  It's too long.  A whole series devoted to, for example, finding five keys, is really danm boring to me.  I crave different villains, new plots, and different situations.  But hey, that's just me ...

 

Second reason : The animation style.  I'm not a huge fan of the exaggerrated style of modern anime.  This also includes some of the 'conventions' of the Japanese storytelling style.  For example, the fat, goofball sidekick. 

 

Now, before the Beast Wars crowd jumps in with their "But there isn't any of that in our series" speech, let me say one word : WASPINATOR. 

 

Again, just my opinion.  Nothing stopping you or anyone else from enjoying whatever you want.  Fan of the RiD cartoon?  Great.  Enjoy.  Energon your fave?  Awesome.  Have a blast. 

 

Third reason : The toy design.  Now, by this I don't mean the articulation and complexity of the mold.  I'm talking about the way they look.  The face sculpts, the body design, and the colour schemes.  Like it or not, they are very different from 20 years ago, as would be expected.  However, just because it's new, doesn't mean everyone has to like it.  In fact, I, for one would be glad to never again see a TF design based on ancient samurai armor with a Gundam-style head and 16 colours all conflicting with each other.  I like being able to see what a TF's alt mode is based on pieces of the robot mode.  That doesn't happen much these days.

 

This is getting kinda long, so let me just sum up by saying this : nostalgia isn't always the reason for a person to like G1 over the new series.  True, for some it is the reason.  But not for all.  Not by a long shot.

 

 

One last thing to get back to the topic : Armada/Energon/Cybertron Megatron is basically just G1 Megatron with the constraints of the 80's cartoon to hold back the stories.  Just my theory.

I like Robots rar.

Okay, so this has gone from who's the best/worst Megatron to which series is the best/worst.

 

I can deal with that.

 

I'm now 26 and as with most of the fandom grew up fairly familiar with Generation 1. Not a whole lot to say about it though I only watched it on occassion when the parents were out. They had a thing against ultra violent cartoons at the time.  :roll Needless to say I saw most of the first two seasons and by the time the film came out grew out of it altogether. Years pass and Transformers finally hit dvd, and i wind up collecting the whole run. My overall impession of G1 is Season 1 is still by far the best. That's where it all began mind you.

 

Season two was an absolute chore to get through. I'd pop in the dvd and get through the first one alright but after that it doesn't take long at all before everything begins to look thr same. Megatron comes up with some rediculous, and overly elaborate plan to rid himself of Prime and the Autobots and in end fails miserably. The best episodes in season two were the absolute WTF one that were outandish and different enough to be fun. "Hoist goes to Hollywood still remains as one of my personal favorites. Another huge problem I had with most of these earlier eps is that there were way too many characters popping up for no other reason than to sell more toys. I am admittingly hating it when a single show has to revolve around 30+ characters at a time in a 20 minute time spot. It's true episodes can revolve around certain characters for a bit but aside from that the show can't get in a lot of back story or character developement. Charaters may learn a valuable lesson at times but aside from that every character remains the same throughout. Not very captivating in my opinion, of course this was meant to entertain elementry aged children.

 

Season 3 I think is hated above all, but personally I liked it a lot better then a lot of what Season two was offering. The huge gripe of course is that Optimus Prime died and replace by Hot Rodimus Prime following the events of the movie. I think season 3 was the first time an ongoing story arc was attempted, and though it too was mostly episodic we were finally getting some on going character development. Rodimus for once is everything Optimus Prime isn't and this at least made him interesting while Galvatron desended from leader of the Decepticons in pure psychosis by the end. Seems to be an on going trend with the character.

 

Season 3 ended with rebirth which in turn led to the Japanese continuation of Head Masters. Can't coment on it though because I have yet to see it. So in the end G1 had a great first season and the third season though not steller finally opened up the concept of taking the show further than the toys and providing conflicted and ongoing characters with a jointed arc beyond just another 20 minute quest for ultimate power. Beastwars continued the trend and in my opinion was a lot more than a mere anomally as somebody blatently put it. Beastwars is Transformers evolved. Never mind the fact that the show was in computer animation let alone the characters had now gone from vehicular to organic what made Beastwars a success over all of that  was that it was finally a show that involved interesting, well thought out characters, and well scripted and exciting storylines opposed to G1 Megatron's schemes involving Energon cubes and what not.

 

Enough on Beastwars I have to sleep yet tonight. What i'm really heated about if anything is how G1 is praised above all and how everything that followed is absolute crap and in no way can compare. Personally I think it's the other way around and that with the right kind of eyes todays shows are by far superior. The Armadaverse is what actually got me back into enjoying and collecting Transformers. To clarify armada by any means is no Beastwars but it carries a lot of the same feel as it. Obnoxious children, and Minicon gimicks aside the characters for the most part are writen with a fair bit of deapth, and are given fairly decent backstorys. What irked me most about G1 in Season two all of these new characters kept showing up with little or explanation. Grapple, and Hoist walk in recognized by Prime and the others and  you're left wondering where the hell did they come from? I really liked how the later series have progressed past that.

 

Who the hell here said the good guys aways win without consequences. Though Prime will eventially win the later shows have shown repeatedly that victory does not come without casualties. Armada is very much a children's show but would have expected to see characters actually die for a change. Smokescreen coming back as Hoist was a bit of a copout but seeing Starscream, and Thrust go the way they did was fairly unexpected. The same could be said for Energon, and Cybertron. As the battles escalate more characters die and not just nameless Terracons. I really wish  Hasbro would get away from reformatting most characters after they die but either way this a lot more realistic than anything portrayed in G1. The only exception being the movie.

 

On the topic of Energon, yes it was crap for the most part but having finished watching Superlink I rather enjoyed it in it's entirety. same could be said for the fansubbed Galaxy Force. Having seen all three I have to honestly say Superlink is easily the strongest and most entertaining of the three. Picking up ten years following Armada Enegon is discovered and a world wide alliance is formed with Cybertron. What really surprised me was the incredible deapth of some of the characters and the storyline in general. The on going arc reminded me a lot of 24 because you had no idea where it will go by the end. To elaborate Alpha Q basically gives you the impression he wants to steel all of earths Energon to revive Unicron when in fact he's only doing it to free his home world. Team Convoy (Prime, and others) see him as an immediate threat in alliance with the Decepticons and pulls out all the stops to thwart him. Scoponok who you imediately see as a badass is a double agent working alongside the decepticons for Alpha Q. Megatron is accidentally revived and formulates a new plan to reactivate Unicron, and chases off Alpha Q who through Kicker is eventially allied with Team Convoy. Alpha Q leaving via Unicron's head revives Nightscream (Starscream) to searve as an assassin to remove both Megatron, and Convoy in exchange for a physical body. Failing to do so though believing he has succeded Alpha Q grants him a physical form and off he goes to kill Megatron. Failing to do so Megatron grants him benevolence and reformats him into his personal Starscream. Convoy knowing the threat buth coexisting Unicron's pose to the Universe heads into space to stop them while Team Rodimus shows up and want nothing more than to have Unicron reactivated. That is all within the first 15 eps of this series. I don't recall any single story in all of  G1 being that indeapth let alone thought out. True the ending was a real WTF/downer it's still pretty good over all.

 

Fact is G1 is I think nostalga driven and not much more. Once any person accepts the fact that Transforners now are no longer MEANT to be G1 they''ll actually discover that the shows Beastwars onward aren't really half as bad they like to think.             

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Allright, aside from this whole thread being based on opinion and preference, here's some fact :

 

Everyone has an opinion.  Most, for one reason or another, differ in some way from everyone else's. 

 

I would commend Loki for stating what he likes and doesn't like from the various TF series. 

 

HOWEVER, I would take issue with this part ...

 

Fact is G1 is I think nostalga driven and not much more. Once any person accepts the fact that Transforners now are no longer MEANT to be G1 they''ll actually discover that the shows Beastwars onward aren't really half as bad they like to think.             

 

That's an over-generalization.  There are many reasons for a person to prefer one series over another.  G1 is no different. 

 

In my particular case, I prefer the original series. 

 

First reason : I don't like season or series long storylines.  It's too long.  A whole series devoted to, for example, finding five keys, is really danm boring to me.  I crave different villains, new plots, and different situations.  But hey, that's just me ...

 

Second reason : The animation style.  I'm not a huge fan of the exaggerrated style of modern anime.  This also includes some of the 'conventions' of the Japanese storytelling style.  For example, the fat, goofball sidekick. 

 

Now, before the Beast Wars crowd jumps in with their "But there isn't any of that in our series" speech, let me say one word : WASPINATOR. 

 

Again, just my opinion.  Nothing stopping you or anyone else from enjoying whatever you want.  Fan of the RiD cartoon?  Great.  Enjoy.  Energon your fave?  Awesome.  Have a blast. 

 

Third reason : The toy design.  Now, by this I don't mean the articulation and complexity of the mold.  I'm talking about the way they look.  The face sculpts, the body design, and the colour schemes.  Like it or not, they are very different from 20 years ago, as would be expected.  However, just because it's new, doesn't mean everyone has to like it.  In fact, I, for one would be glad to never again see a TF design based on ancient samurai armor with a Gundam-style head and 16 colours all conflicting with each other.  I like being able to see what a TF's alt mode is based on pieces of the robot mode.  That doesn't happen much these days.

 

This is getting kinda long, so let me just sum up by saying this : nostalgia isn't always the reason for a person to like G1 over the new series.  True, for some it is the reason.  But not for all.  Not by a long shot.

 

 

One last thing to get back to the topic : Armada/Energon/Cybertron Megatron is basically just G1 Megatron with the constraints of the 80's cartoon to hold back the stories.  Just my theory.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Have to agree with you on a lot of points. I do like the new toys, heck I love them but I also like the older simpler toys.

 

Nostalgia plays a large part in liking G1 but not completely. The show is very cool and has some damm good episode say Starscream's Brigade or Ghost In The Machine (where Starscream tries to get his body back).

 

Nowadays one has to watch an entire series to get a storyline. BM was like that too but BW also had standalone episodes which I really liked. I mean, you should be able to sit down for 30 minutes and watch a single show.

 

With the last 3 show one cannot do so. And G1 came up with interesting ideas though not all worked out that well. The last 3 shows have all been about find the Mini-Con/Energon/Key which is quite boring.

 

And I too do not care for the anime style and the Japanese storytelling aspects. Heck I could do without the Japanese storytelling entirely.