The way I see it, the key to vector sigma may have been initialy used by the Quintessons to 'terraform ' an inhabited world (fits their profile),

Vector sigma is result of the sentient life force gathered and stored (fits in with the life giving qualetys and it's 'oracle abilities' ) and is also the core of 'Primus', while the savage primmordial life force was gathered and used to make a single sentient mind in a large re-cycling facility the size of a small planetoid ( Unicron)

The Atobots were consumer goods, the Decepticons were military hardware that were given sparks by vector sigma as it was more cost effective to do this rather than developing advanced AI units (fits with quintasson bisness ethics) the decepticon mindset created by 'amping up the personality circuts' (corrupting the spark)

 

ARMADA onwords is an alteration to the timeline by Unicron sending his erleyer self a message of  what happens and alters the timeline by using a certain lost pred to carry out his dirtywork (good ol' Waspy) meaning  G1, Bw, BW2,BWN, BM and possibly RID occured in the original timeline.

 

Thats the way I see it anyway

:tftounge

I don't like the unicron primus beginning myself.  I like HR's origin cause the person can make it's own personal conclussion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

But, I can make my own conclusion that Superman is a viking god who came to earth through a black hole and gets his powers from eating rotten banana peels... It doesn't make it a valid origin of Superman.

 

While we don't have a nailed down origin and timelone for transformers, and transformers sure as hell don't have a clue of their origins, There are facts that are pretty consistant across all the G1 universes that give us a rough story.

 

1. Unicron and Primus were trapped in asteroids in the Astral plane.

*unknown things happened*

 

2. Primacron is part of making Unicron a planetformer.

*Unknown Either he helped or flat out did 100% of the terraforming himself.*

 

3. Quintessons are involved in ancient cybertron.

*Unknown Either they enslaved an existing robotic race, or terraformed Primus into a planet and built the TFs*

 

4. All Transformers have 'life' from Primus. Every TF is either a shard of or comes from Primus and was imbedded in a robotic form through Vector Sigma or the Matrix in the alter years.

 

 

Transformers origins are 100% Primus/Unicron... there is no other valid origin even in play within any G1 universe... it is Primus/Unicron or 'ambiguity' that doesn't contradict the Primus/Unicron origin.

I don't like the unicron primus beginning myself.  I like HR's origin cause the person can make it's own personal conclussion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

But, I can make my own conclusion that Superman is a viking god who came to earth through a black hole and gets his powers from eating rotten banana peels... It doesn't make it a valid origin of Superman.

 

While we don't have a nailed down origin and timelone for transformers, and transformers sure as hell don't have a clue of their origins, There are facts that are pretty consistant across all the G1 universes that give us a rough story.

 

1. Unicron and Primus were trapped in asteroids in the Astral plane.

*unknown things happened*

 

2. Primacron is part of making Unicron a planetformer.

*Unknown Either he helped or flat out did 100% of the terraforming himself.*

 

3. Quintessons are involved in ancient cybertron.

*Unknown Either they enslaved an existing robotic race, or terraformed Primus into a planet and built the TFs*

 

4. All Transformers have 'life' from Primus. Every TF is either a shard of or comes from Primus and was imbedded in a robotic form through Vector Sigma or the Matrix in the alter years.

 

 

Transformers origins are 100% Primus/Unicron... there is no other valid origin even in play within any G1 universe... it is Primus/Unicron or 'ambiguity' that doesn't contradict the Primus/Unicron origin.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

We must have posted at the same time ,does my post help the grey bits, i tried to base it on facts and theorised ,  :thumb

I don't like the unicron primus beginning myself.  I like HR's origin cause the person can make it's own personal conclussion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

But, I can make my own conclusion that Superman is a viking god who came to earth through a black hole and gets his powers from eating rotten banana peels... It doesn't make it a valid origin of Superman.

 

While we don't have a nailed down origin and timelone for transformers, and transformers sure as hell don't have a clue of their origins, There are facts that are pretty consistant across all the G1 universes that give us a rough story.

 

1. Unicron and Primus were trapped in asteroids in the Astral plane.

*unknown things happened*

 

2. Primacron is part of making Unicron a planetformer.

*Unknown Either he helped or flat out did 100% of the terraforming himself.*

 

3. Quintessons are involved in ancient cybertron.

*Unknown Either they enslaved an existing robotic race, or terraformed Primus into a planet and built the TFs*

 

4. All Transformers have 'life' from Primus. Every TF is either a shard of or comes from Primus and was imbedded in a robotic form through Vector Sigma or the Matrix in the alter years.

 

 

Transformers origins are 100% Primus/Unicron... there is no other valid origin even in play within any G1 universe... it is Primus/Unicron or 'ambiguity' that doesn't contradict the Primus/Unicron origin.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i meant, an origin that is plausable :thumb

you expect a children's cartoon about giant robotic aliens to be plausable ;)

 

maybe the upcoming movie will give us a decent origin (that at least some people may accept as cannon)

you expect a children's cartoon about giant robotic aliens to be plausable ;)

 

maybe the upcoming movie will give us a decent origin (that at least some people may accept as cannon)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

that was kinda the hidden reasoning behind this thread....

EXPOSED!!!

I have always preferred the Quintesson story to the Unicron/Primus story. In my own little fanboy universe, the Quints are the secret true creators of the TFs that nobody knows about / remembers, and the Unicron/Primus story is a "happier" TF myth that they created (creating their god and devil in their own image, etc). It just seems more f*cked up that way, which is probably why it appeals to me. :redface

 

I view the Botcon comics on the same level as Star Wars novels (i.e. as apocryphal material that should be interpreted in light of "true canon", which for me is the TV series.... only since I was never into the Marvel comics).

 

Anyway, the Quintesson creation story perfectly explains the origins of the distinct factions of Autobot and Decepticon (and why they even have faction symbols stamped on their bodies). I also find the Autobots' adoption of their former slave brand as a mark of pride to be very cool. Granted, the Quintesson origin sort of skips over the whole Vector Sigma thing, but then they never did explain where Vector Sigma came from, so it's entirely possible (in a retcon-licious way) to posit that the Quints created Vector Sigma as a "spark generator" or something like that.

 

BTW Bob Skir (head story editor for Beast Machines) has gone on record as saying that references to TFs "coming to Cybertron" was a mistake, plain and simple. Although the retconphiles among you might easily rationalize that by just saying that it was only Primal who made that claim, and who knows if he's even right. It could have just been an ancient and accepted Cybertronian story that didn't have any basis in reality. After all, nobody knew about the Quintessons...

I think the whole Primus/Unicron thing is hard to swallow for some--not for me, thoug--because it required faith in the missing bits, like a religion.

I think the whole Primus/Unicron thing is hard to swallow for some--not for me, thoug--because it required faith in the missing bits, like a religion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It does?

 

This comes under the assumption that physical beings and our dimension is the only type of life forms?

 

Primus and Unicron do not have to be mythological, magical beings... It seems people are putting thier own lack of faith on the 'I don't like primus/unicron because religion is stupid'. Often times, religions are formed simply to deal with unexplainable scientific events. Doesn;t mean the events don't exist, just means the people observing can't comprehend it yet.

 

'astral plane' may simply be a generic term for a paralell usiverse with life forms based in science. It could be that the actions taken in the paralell universe can effect other dimensions so it is easy to see why they could be considered 'god-like'

 

Shifting dimensions to trap a being of energy in an asteroid has nothing to do with religion and can all be easily based in science.

 

In fact, the way the series have told it, the Primus/Unicron origin is the MOST plausible as having beings of energy sucked through an interdimensional device and stuffed into robotic bodies is much better than robotic squids 'creating life' out of nothing. To engineer life out of nothing is much more requiring a level of 'faith' than having transformers basically life forms from another dimension stick in physical robot forms.

 

Quintessons never quite understood WHY thier robots became more than a sum of thier parts and when they were basically 'de-throned' it almost became a sick obsession to figure out WHY it happened and how come they have never been able to re-create it... If the quintesonns where the TRUE creators... then they could have easily packed up and went elsewhere and easily made cybertron 2 and take over cybertron 1.

 

Like it or not... the ALLSPARK is fact... and Sparks comming from the other dimension and stuffed into robots is fact, and that lends itself to the primus/unicron origin, as that is what happened on a grand scale by stuffing them into planet cores.