Wow, this argument is getting vicious. Um...really, now, why would anyone WANT their writer to write garbage? Isn't the point of comics to have a GOOD story? While it's true that writers must work with certain guidelines, I don't think anyone told Furman he MUST bring elements like Unicron and whatnot into the comics. Why all the hatin' on me for having an opinion, even though I HAVEN'T read the comics themselves? I've read enough about Furman to know what a sad little rehasher he really is. Like I said, I don't wanna get confrontational with anyone, but please don't try to shove Furman down my throat.

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No, this argument is getting stupid. 

 

Just do what any self-respecting TF fan does to a continuity he doesn't like : ignore the hell out of it.

BTW, not baseless guessing.  Hypothetical question.  You don't know  what the editorial 'suggestions' were.  Remember that DW was formed by guys who were TF fans already, so any and all fanboyish crap could very likely have originated with them.

 

More baseless guessing.  Using LOGIC alone I could tell you that DW didn't tell Furman to write crap. 

More baseless guessing.  Using LOGIC alone I could tell you that DW didn't tell Furman to write crap. 

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Again.  Not baseless guessing.  Theory.  Slight difference, I know, but an important one.

 

But you know what?  Your apparent hatred has blinded you to all but the things he did wrong, and not seeing the other things that weren't that bad. 

 

Kinda sad really ....

Nightbeat was a pedophile :ghey that killed himself.

Peaple would just chose G1 out of Nalstlaga.  Victory, and Masterforce has fully developed charectors, AND a coheseve plot(no Magic Reset Button).

 

If Manga style is soo bad why did Dreamwave try to Imatate it....BADLY(Colours, Humans)?

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By the way your link does not work and the picture has no relevance to Nightbeat as far as I know and I own nearly all of the G1 and G2 comics and Nightbeat never had any dealings with kids so calling him a pedophile is totally unfounded.

 

Nightbeat died during the final issue of G2 but I would hardly say he got himself killed. A lot of Transformers died in that ish, not to mention the whole G2 series.

 

As for the Manga style, Marvel also tried to emulate it with comics such as Human Torch which failed as well.

 

I am sure Dreamwave thought the comics would sell better to young people if a certain manga element was present. They also "enforced" a certain house style for the art that was not the smartest thing they could do either.

 

Kids nowadays mostly watch Japanese made cartoons so that explains why Dreamwave went for anime influenced comics mixed with G1 Marvel type storylines. (They did hire Furman.) I think their comics are very good though some could have been better.

 

I have never seen Masterforce but even a show with fully developed characters and a coherent storyline can be bad. And the other way around. Even though G1 did not have a coherent storyline at all I still love the show to death just because it is the start of all things that is Transformers.

 

Seeing how I feel (based on the recent Transformers cartoons) about the Japanese take on Transformers, I do not think I would like Masterforce that much. Energon had a coherent storyline but that hardly makes it a good show as the show is too focused pn that single plot line.

 

And humans did not have a manga type influence in the Dreamwave comics (in my opinion). In the Armada comic the writers made up that the kids could understand the Mini-Cons (which barely makes sense) so they could be in the cartoons. Not to mention their annoyingness.

 

The humans in the comics were a little more tolerable, even Kicker. And humans have always been a part of the G1 comic as well.

Without substantial proof, all theories (except scientific theory since it has a different definition than everyday theory) are baseless guessing.  Until you can show me that:

 

A: DW hired Furman speifically for the dialogues and he's not to have any say on the plot line and character development.

 

B: The actual Editorial 'suggestions' used in meetings and such. 

 

C: Proof that every DW guys who were TF fans and are capable comic book publishers (not just in art, but know the best way to make a good comic book)

 

D:. Name all the fanboyish crap originated with them.

 

Without any of these proof, everything you've said so far are baseless guessing.  Nothing more.  All the evidence you have presented are baseless.  Especially the one where DW hired Furman to write crap.

 

I for one are going by the DW comic books written by Furman.  I bought them, read them, thought they were terrible, and stopped buying them. 

Without substantial proof, all theories (except scientific theory since it has a different definition than everyday theory) are baseless guessing.  Until you can show me that:

 

A: DW hired Furman speifically for the dialogues and he's not to have any say on the plot line and character development.

 

B: The actual Editorial 'suggestions' used in meetings and such. 

 

C: Proof that every DW guys who were TF fans and are capable comic book publishers (not just in art, but know the best way to make a good comic book)

 

D:. Name all the fanboyish crap originated with them.

 

Without any of these proof, everything you've said so far are baseless guessing.  Nothing more.  All the evidence you have presented are baseless.  Especially the one where DW hired Furman to write crap.

 

I for one are going by the DW comic books written by Furman.  I bought them, read them, thought they were terrible, and stopped buying them. 

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There's one thing you haven't been understanding here.  I never claimed any of this was fact.  I was offering a theory as to why the DW G1 stories were done the way they were.  If you want to take my theories and pretend I'm presenting them as fact, then that's your problem, not mine.

There's one thing you haven't been understanding here.  I never claimed any of this was fact.  I was offering a theory as to why the DW G1 stories were done the way they were.  If you want to take my theories and pretend I'm presenting them as fact, then that's your problem, not mine.

 

The DW G1 stories are not really that good..........

By the way, theory technically requires fact......otherwise they ARE baseless guesses........

The DW G1 stories are not really that good..........

By the way, theory technically requires fact......otherwise they ARE baseless guesses........

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:roll

 

Alright, you forced me to do this ....

 

Theory : the·o·ry    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (th-r, thîr)

n. pl. the·o·ries

1. A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.

2. The branch of a science or art consisting of its explanatory statements, accepted principles, and methods of analysis, as opposed to practice: a fine musician who had never studied theory.

3. A set of theorems that constitute a systematic view of a branch of mathematics.

4. Abstract reasoning; speculation: a decision based on experience rather than theory. 5. A belief or principle that guides action or assists comprehension or judgment: staked out the house on the theory that criminals usually return to the scene of the crime.

6. An assumption based on limited information or knowledge; a conjecture.

 

Notice the bolded text.  That's the last thing I'm going to say on the topic of 'beaseless guessing'.

1. A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena

This is not the the everyday definition.  This is the scientific definition.  Kudos to not highlighting the entire definition.

 

4. Abstract reasoning; speculation: a decision based on experience rather than theory.

What exprience are you talking about then?  Do you have inside information that an average Transfans don't have?

 

6. An assumption based on limited information or knowledge; a conjecture. 

Your assumption are base on zero information or knowledge. Ie. baseless.

It requires SOME.

 

All the definition you've listed requires some sort of background/knowledge. 

This is not the the everyday definition.  This is the scientific definition.  Kudos to not highlighting the entire definition.

What exprience are you talking about then?  Do you have inside information that an average Transfans don't have?

Your assumption are base on zero information or knowledge. Ie. baseless.

It requires SOME.

 

All the definition you've listed requires some sort of background/knowledge. 

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Do you really want to argue the definition of theory and how many facts are required to base it on? 

 

Well, here you go.  Read this interview with Furman and this article.

 

 

 

Excerpts :

Twin Twist: What are the main differences, work wise, between Marvel and Dreamwave, and have the processes for writing comics changed that much?

 

Simon Furman: I think there were a few differences. When I was doing the original Marvel series it was much more, sort of, flying by the seat of our pants. We didn’t know that there was going to be this great follow on from there, so we were just writing stories. Sometimes we weren’t careful about what we did, I mean in Generation 2 I brought back in some characters I’d killed off in Generation 1 and so forth. We were just a little bit fast and loose with it sometimes. We were just telling great big fun stories and we weren’t too heavily laden with continuity details. When it came around to working for Dreamwave I was very, very, conscious of all the continuity, of the fan expectation, of the things we had to live up to, of making sure we didn’t make mistakes because things were going to be dissected on the internet or wherever else, so I was very conscious of just making sure I got everything in the right order and got my continuity lines right, that we didn’t bump off a character who we’d done a few issues ago or something like that. It was a lot more measured I guess writing for Dreamwave, and they being fans themselves they were very into the continuity, into this and that, so there was much more of a world of Transformers when I was doing Dreamwave work.

 

“TRANSFORMERS is a classic property, and we are thrilled that we will have the opportunity to use our expertise and passion for this brand as we create a range of comic books, posters, calendars that will be just incredible,� said Pat Lee, President of Dreamwave Productions. “It has always been a dream of mine to draw TRANSFORMERS and now that it has become a reality, I couldn’t be more excited.�

 

Does that satisfy you as to the fannish tendencies of the brothers Lee?  Also part of the editorial process is hinted there.

 

What else would you like?