Beastwars,Was it really in 1980's TF continuity/universe?

 

Personally,I'd say "No".

 

for the following quick reasons below:

 

1- Bastwars,wasn't in Takara Japanese TF 1980's continuity/universe. Because in the 1987 Headmasters takara TF cartoon series,Planet Cybertron was blown up & destroyed. in beastwars the planet cybertron existed & wasn't blown up nor destroyed.

 

Clearly Takara erased/omitted the 3 1980's exclusive Japanese TF series history for beastwars,BW2ND & BW Neo.

 

2- Beastwars was set in both the 1980's/1990's USA Marvel TF comics & 1984 thru 1987 TF cartoons.

 

As most know the 1980's/1990's TF marvel comics were in a different G-1/G-2 universe than the 1980's USA TF cartoons.

 

3- I'd prefer to think of beastwars as being in a alternate G-1/G-2 universe. where the marvel TF comics & 1980's TF cartoons Exist as one giant universe.

In 96, most of the viewership of Transformers had no recollection or knowledge Japan even had TF toons after G1. So obviously, BW had nothing to do with Japanese G1. The writers probably had no idea or interest in viewing those. I watched BW and a young teenager with very little knowledge of G1 since the series weren't available on DVD. Only the few VHS tapes and the animated movie were available. But if young me can piece this together, so can you.

 

Points to counter every thing you say.

 

-Megatron(BW) having a disk with Megatron(G1) talking to his future predesecor.

- The Nemesis

-the Vok imitating Unicron

- the Ark

-Ravage and his being referred to as a Decepticon

-OPTIMUS PRIME AND ALL THE OTHER BOTS AND CONS ON THE ARK IN STASIS MODE AFTER THE ARK CRASH LANDED INTO THE VOLCANO

-Ghost Starscream

 

These are FACTS as it happened in the cartoon. Beast Wars was an American cartoon imported to Japan. Whatever they did to it is part of Japan TF lore. There alike 15 different TF lore in circulation. They are not all going to mesh.

 

Your second "point" contradicts you're entire post.

In 96, most of the viewership of Transformers had no recollection or knowledge Japan even had TF toons after G1. So obviously, BW had nothing to do with Japanese G1. The writers probably had no idea or interest in viewing those. I watched BW and a young teenager with very little knowledge of G1 since the series weren't available on DVD. Only the few VHS tapes and the animated movie were available. But if young me can piece this together, so can you.

 

Points to counter every thing you say.

 

-Megatron(BW) having a disk with Megatron(G1) talking to his future predesecor.

- The Nemesis

-the Vok imitating Unicron

- the Ark

-Ravage and his being referred to as a Decepticon

-OPTIMUS PRIME AND ALL THE OTHER BOTS AND CONS ON THE ARK IN STASIS MODE AFTER THE ARK CRASH LANDED INTO THE VOLCANO

-Ghost Starscream

 

These are FACTS as it happened in the cartoon. Beast Wars was an American cartoon imported to Japan. Whatever they did to it is part of Japan TF lore. There alike 15 different TF lore in circulation. They are not all going to mesh.

 

Your second "point" contradicts you're entire post.

 

I & Thousands of other TF fans world wide knew & watched some/all of the Exclusive generation one Takara series like headmasters,masterforce,victory. we saw these episodes way before beastwars aired on TV. I saw them all around the year 1990. these were not hard to find. they were bootlegged in insane numbers. almost every toy/comic convention I went to had them for sale. these were also available via VHS bootlegs in most import shops that I went to in manhattan & other states in america.

 

During the "Hartman" brother early botcon conventions that took place in the years G-2 toys were in stores. their were dozens of botcon convention dealers selling bootleg VHS tapes of all three japanese TF exclusive cartoon series like headmasters,masterforce & victory. their was even a video room at the early botcon conventions that played the japanese exclusive G-1 cartoons non-stop.

 

Larry & bob the creators/writers of the beastwars CGI cartoon series,went on record saying they both heavily used stuff from the Generation 2 comic book.

 

As a tribute to simon furman,the man who bob & larry borrowed heavily from for the beastwars show. Simon furman got the honor of writting a few season 3 Beastwars episodes.

 

The whole peace treaty that exist in the beastwars time line between the good & bad robots. was taken from the peace treaty the autobots & decepticons forged during the Generation 2 comic.

 

Both bob & larry the BW writers said the Vok was a evolved form of the Swarm that existed in the Generation 2 TF comic.

 

Both beastwars & beastmachines mentions Primus. Primus came from the marvel TF comics. their was no primus in the generation one 1984 thru 1987 USA TF cartoon series.

 

The vok immiated unicron because that was the Swarms specialty in the generation 2 TF comic

 

I clearly stated in my thread starter the following: the 1980'S USA TF cartoon was in a different alternate universe than the marvel TF G-1 comic. the comic & cartoon didn't not exist in the same universe. since beastwars combined & used stuff from the marvel comic & 1980's TF cartoon,this cancels out beastwars as existing in the 1980's TF continuity universe.

 

I prefer to think of beastwars as existing in a alternate G-1 universe where stuff from the marvel comic & usa TF 1980' cartoon combined to form a weird Alternate G-1 universe.

alright dude.

Don't know why I am bothering but Beast Wars in G-1 continuity only makes sense if you toss out the 300 years and insert the 15,000 years of Best Wars II and Beast Wars Neo. You also have to ignore Beast Machines. Which is easy cause even Hasbro has disowned Beast Machines

Beast Wars belongs in the G1 Continuity Family rather than any one specific source of G1. You also omitted toy continuity too - cos that's where Ravage was drawn from. Keep in mind the following facts:

 

+ Beast Wars began as a toy line in an attempt to save Transformers after G2 nearly killed it. It worked. But when Hasbro/Kenner first released BW, it was intended to be a continuation of G2 - the Autobots and Decepticons acquire secret biotechnology that made them into Maximals and Predacons. Optimus Prime became Optimus Primal, Megatron kept his name and became a crocodile then T-Rex etc. It's all there in the 1996 tech specs and packaging bios, comic etc.

 

+ After the toys proved successful, Hasbro commissioned Mainframe to make an animated cartoon series. Bob Forward and Larry DiTillio are hired as writers - at the time they know essentially nothing about Transformers. A decision is made by Mainframe to maintain Beast Wars in the same continuity as G1, but as a "new generation" of Transformers. Thus they completely disregard Hasbro's original story idea and created the basic premise for the show where Maximals and Predacons are future descendants of Autobots and Decepticons.

 

+ Because Forward and DiTillio were novices when it came to Transformers, they sought advice and feedback from fans via the internet (predominantly from alt.toys.transformers). Several fans pitched in and helped to "educate" Forward and DiTillio about G1 and G2, throwing several different sources at them, which they regarded as being a single continuity-entity. Beast Wars has a lot of references to the fans that helped them out (as a tribute to those fans), e.g.:

(1) "Not wacko, Wonko! Wonko the Sane!" - Waspinator (Dark Designs); as well as a reference to Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, it's also a reference to the Transfan known as Wonko the Sane (mundanely known as Benson Yee). He also got his name in the ending credits of The Agenda for emailing Forward and DiTillio a copy of G1 Ravage's tech specs!

(2) "Attention Megatron, this is a Code A-T-T Alert." - Predacon Computer (Before the Storm); A.T.T. = alt.toys.transformers

(3) "Voice code: A-T-T override." - Megatron (Before the Storm); alt.toys.transformers

(4) "Rampage, position yourself in sub-sector Hooks." - Megatron (The Agenda, Part 1); reference to Transfan HooksX.

(5) "There is a storm coming. A storm of such power, such magnitude, it is beyond imagination!" - Megatron (Before the Storm); another reference to Hooks X.

(6) "Optimus to Rhinox. Grid Darcerin complete." - Optimus Primal (Feral Scream, Part 1); reference to Darcerin (aka Dark Angel)

(7) When BW Inferno first came along, many fans were referring to him as "Blender Butt," and of course Quickstrike actually says, "Yeah. Old Blender Butt there misunderstands my need to kick his keister!" (Coming of the Fuzors, Part 1).

(8) "Cat patrol to 'bot base. Got a blue plate sighting in Tengu sector." - Cheetor (Code of Hero); reference to Tengu (mundanely known as Rob Gerbracht)

(9) "Silverbolt and Blackarachnia are combing sector Tallories." - Optimus Primal (Feral Scream, Part 1); reference to Tallories (mundanely known as Jennifer Stevens)

(10) "Quarry detected; grid Joona." - TM2 Dinobot (Go with the Flow); reference to a Finnish TF fan, although name is mispronounced by Dinobot (the 'J' is pronounced like /y/ and "oo" as an extended "oh.")

(11) "Pred activity spotted in grid Scylla." - Depth Charge (Nemesis, Part 1); reference to a fan handle and BWII character.

(12) "...encoding transmission M-Sipher." - Optimus Primal (Nemesis, Part 1); reference to M. Sipher (mundanely known as Greg Sepelak).

(13) "Targetting grid 3H." - Megatron (Nemesis, Part 2); eeeeyyyyy! :D

 

You have to remember that this was all back when there were NOT that many TF web sites around. Transformer resource sites like TFwiki, TFU.info, botchthecrab, YouTube etc. simply did not exist. And Forward and DiTillio didn't necessarily sit down and read/watch EVERY piece of G1 material out there -- it's extensive and these guys are working on a timeline (plus they had other commitments outside BW, both personal and professional), so it was more prudent for them to selectively expose themselves to G1 and G2 material as required for writing Beast Wars.

 

Is Beast Wars' reference to G1/G2 perfect? No. But at least they tried - and as far as tying in with the G1 Continuity Family, I think they did a good job. You look at TF writers today - hardly anybody even tries to hook Transformers up with the original G1 continuity family anymore. Armadaverse, Animated, Bayformers, TF Prime, WFC/FOC etc. - they're all bloody reboots. And the reason for this is because linking a new series with G1 is difficult for writers who aren't necessarily TF fans themselves. There would be a lot of homework involved - and that's something that I've always appreciated with Forward and DiTillio. They didn't have to research G1/G2... they could've happily just disregarded it and made BW brazenly out-of-continuity or some kind of reboot... but they didn't. They did put in their own personal time watching cartoons, reading comics, reading tech specs etc. as part of their own research into writing Beast Wars. I doubt they got any extra pay for it either... it's just something they did to try to make fans happy. The results may not be perfect, but I applaud their efforts.

In 96, most of the viewership of Transformers had no recollection or knowledge Japan even had TF toons after G1. So obviously, BW had nothing to do with Japanese G1. The writers probably had no idea or interest in viewing those. I watched BW and a young teenager with very little knowledge of G1 since the series weren't available on DVD. Only the few VHS tapes and the animated movie were available. But if young me can piece this together, so can you.

 

Points to counter every thing you say.

 

-Megatron(BW) having a disk with Megatron(G1) talking to his future predesecor.

- The Nemesis

-the Vok imitating Unicron

- the Ark

-Ravage and his being referred to as a Decepticon

-OPTIMUS PRIME AND ALL THE OTHER BOTS AND CONS ON THE ARK IN STASIS MODE AFTER THE ARK CRASH LANDED INTO THE VOLCANO

-Ghost Starscream

 

These are FACTS as it happened in the cartoon. Beast Wars was an American cartoon imported to Japan. Whatever they did to it is part of Japan TF lore. There alike 15 different TF lore in circulation. They are not all going to mesh.

 

Your second "point" contradicts you're entire post.

 

I & Thousands of other TF fans world wide knew & watched some/all of the Exclusive generation one Takara series like headmasters,masterforce,victory. we saw these episodes way before beastwars aired on TV. I saw them all around the year 1990. these were not hard to find. they were bootlegged in insane numbers. almost every toy/comic convention I went to had them for sale. these were also available via VHS bootlegs in most import shops that I went to in manhattan & other states in america.

 

During the "Hartman" brother early botcon conventions that took place in the years G-2 toys were in stores. their were dozens of botcon convention dealers selling bootleg VHS tapes of all three japanese TF exclusive cartoon series like headmasters,masterforce & victory. their was even a video room at the early botcon conventions that played the japanese exclusive G-1 cartoons non-stop.

 

Larry & bob the creators/writers of the beastwars CGI cartoon series,went on record saying they both heavily used stuff from the Generation 2 comic book.

 

As a tribute to simon furman,the man who bob & larry borrowed heavily from for the beastwars show. Simon furman got the honor of writting a few season 3 Beastwars episodes.

 

The whole peace treaty that exist in the beastwars time line between the good & bad robots. was taken from the peace treaty the autobots & decepticons forged during the Generation 2 comic.

 

Both bob & larry the BW writers said the Vok was a evolved form of the Swarm that existed in the Generation 2 TF comic.

 

Both beastwars & beastmachines mentions Primus. Primus came from the marvel TF comics. their was no primus in the generation one 1984 thru 1987 USA TF cartoon series.

 

The vok immiated unicron because that was the Swarms specialty in the generation 2 TF comic

 

I clearly stated in my thread starter the following: the 1980'S USA TF cartoon was in a different alternate universe than the marvel TF G-1 comic. the comic & cartoon didn't not exist in the same universe. since beastwars combined & used stuff from the marvel comic & 1980's TF cartoon,this cancels out beastwars as existing in the 1980's TF continuity universe.

 

I prefer to think of beastwars as existing in a alternate G-1 universe where stuff from the marvel comic & usa TF 1980' cartoon combined to form a weird Alternate G-1 universe.

Almost this entire post is contradicted by the videotaped interviews of Bob Forward and Larry Ditillo on my Beast Wars Dvd's.

 

About 90% of the ties to G1 continuity throughout seasons 1 and 2 of Beast Wars were accidents. The use of Starscream's ghost, while one of the few intentional callbacks to G1 continuity, Larry and Bob stated on the dvd was without knowledge of Starscream's actual ghost in season 3. They got the idea from sitting down and watching the 1986 animated movie with Bob's son, and thought "wouldn't it be cool".

 

The Vok that Bob and Larry created had NO ties in the series to the Swarm from G2. Those ties were put in place by Simon Furman in the club comics in an attempt to reconcile G1, G2, and BW continuity.

 

All early referrences to "The Great War" were accidental. Larry was looking for motivations for the animosity between the two groups and felt that having them be former warring enemies would be a good motivator without requiring much explanation.

Don't know why I am bothering but Beast Wars in G-1 continuity only makes sense if you toss out the 300 years and insert the 15,000 years of Best Wars II and Beast Wars Neo. You also have to ignore Beast Machines. Which is easy cause even Hasbro has disowned Beast Machines

 

Takara really painted themselves into a corner with destroying/blowing up planet cybertron in headmasters. because in beastwars planet cybertron exist & is great condition.

 

For beastwars 2nd & beastwars neo takara painted themselves into another corner. because beastwars 2nd & BW Neo take place

During & after the beastwars ended. in order for Bw2nd & NEO to make sense & to be put into any continuing continuity Beastmachines needs to be ignored like it never existed.

 

I'm fine with deleting beastmachines from the TF cartoon history canon. as I disliked every aspect of the BM cartoon plots/arcs/dialogues & persona's. I also didn't like 95% of the BM toys. The only Two BM toys I thought was awesome & I bought were Deluxe BLackarachnia & Ultra sized Jetstorm.

The timeline is what you make it... there is way to many frayed ends to g1 for there to be a true timeline.

Don't know why I am bothering but Beast Wars in G-1 continuity only makes sense if you toss out the 300 years and insert the 15,000 years of Best Wars II and Beast Wars Neo. You also have to ignore Beast Machines. Which is easy cause even Hasbro has disowned Beast Machines

 

Takara really painted themselves into a corner with destroying/blowing up planet cybertron in headmasters. because in beastwars planet cybertron exist & is great condition.

 

For beastwars 2nd & beastwars neo takara painted themselves into another corner. because beastwars 2nd & BW Neo take place

During & after the beastwars ended. in order for Bw2nd & NEO to make sense & to be put into any continuing continuity Beastmachines needs to be ignored like it never existed.

 

I'm fine with deleting beastmachines from the TF cartoon history canon. as I disliked every aspect of the BM cartoon plots/arcs/dialogues & persona's. I also didn't like 95% of the BM toys. The only Two BM toys I thought was awesome & I bought were Deluxe BLackarachnia & Ultra sized Jetstorm.

 

Actually Takara did not paint themselves into a corner with the destruction of Cybertron. After Lord Zarak hit the switch. Cybertron still remained but was a burnt out husk. With the 15,000 years between the end of G1 and beginning of the BW Timeline. There is plenty of time for Cybertron to have been brought back.

 

Beast Machines is ignored, which is how it should be. Like I said the majority of the fan base and Hasbro themselves have disowned it. Another thing is when Hasbro released the Titanium Cheetor. They apologized and said it was the wrong one. And that Cheetor was suppose to be in his BW pre TM model. And Hasbro never apologizes and means it like they did with Cheetor.