Ok that was easy,

 

You don't know it but you definitely lost, there is no point to arguing this first I won, then you just won it for me again.

 

Damn man come on this 2nd win was to easy.

 

Let's get on something else.

 

Oh and if you want to know how I just won with your own statements look at your last post and hopefully you will see how you lost

True, and I'd guess there was no other reason for Lucas or Marvel to go to Hasbro with the crossovers other than the 'cash-in factor' of the Transformers name on the box. Takara's Disney Label TFs stand on the same shakey ground - to me it's obvious they are not true Transformers, but the brand name is being used because it's the obvious thing to do.Still, other companies have done similar on their own; we've already had mention of the Turtles that turned into vehicles, and I came across this the other day...

:rofl

Not by Hasbro but the same exact idea. Anyway, as you said, with Animorphs it was apparently Hasbro that originated the toyline; they saw a tie-in opportunity and took it. Which is why I think you are correct, they are a Transformers toyline. Not in 'spirit', but in every other way.

Well, determining "true" falls in the category of personal definitions....and at heart, I'm a business man.Been in retail my entire life.I'm overly analytical.So I always see things from the point of view of "what was the bottom line goal when taking these actions"???

 

"What was the result they intended"??

 

And when you look at it that way theres only one answer.

 

I mean, I really dont like to think of them as TF's, but Hasbro has forced that on us.

 

I meant 'true' in response to the statement "There's nothing stopping them from creating a "transforming" toyline for their characters with out involving Hasbro in any way." ;)

 

I don't get why this thread seems to have generated such strong disagreement. I mean, Hasbro manufactured a toyline of transforming figures; Hasbro owns the brand 'Transformers'; and Hasbro labelled their line of transforming figures with the Transformers logo. Pretty cut and dried to me :shrug

Optimus look at the history of Animorphs, the history of Star Wars, the history of Marvel, and tell me Hasbro's Transformers brand owns them.

 

I've already proven Sto_vo_kor_2000 wrong and he even proved his own own view and argument are flawed in a way where it supports those lines as being

 

Animorph toy line

 

Star Wars toy line

 

Marvel toy line

Optimus look at the history of Animorphs, the history of Star Wars, the history of Marvel, and tell me Hasbro's Transformers brand owns them.

 

I've already proven Sto_vo_kor_2000 wrong and he even proved his own own view and argument are flawed in a way where it supports those lines as being

 

Animorph toy line

 

Star Wars toy line

 

Marvel toy line

Yeah bud I can see why this is a contentious issue, mainly due to the pre-existence of Animorphs as a completely non-Transformers related concept... but, isn't Star Wars completely unrelated too? Why is there a difference? Hasbro owns neither the Animorphs brand nor the Star Wars/Marvel/Disney brand. A Buzz Lightyear figure that turns into a Buzz rocket is nothing to do with Transformers, surely?

 

I'm no lawyer but I reckon a court would say the Animorphs toys were a Transformers sub-line, the same way Disney Label toys are.

Optimus look at the history of Animorphs, the history of Star Wars, the history of Marvel, and tell me Hasbro's Transformers brand owns them.

 

I've already proven Sto_vo_kor_2000 wrong and he even proved his own own view and argument are flawed in a way where it supports those lines as being

 

Animorph toy line

 

Star Wars toy line

 

Marvel toy line

Yeah bud I can see why this is a contentious issue, mainly due to the pre-existence of Animorphs as a completely non-Transformers related concept... but, isn't Star Wars completely unrelated too? Why is there a difference? Hasbro owns neither the Animorphs brand nor the Star Wars/Marvel/Disney brand. A Buzz Lightyear figure that turns into a Buzz rocket is nothing to do with Transformers, surely?

 

I'm no lawyer but I reckon a court would say the Animorphs toys were a Transformers sub-line, the same way Disney Label toys are.

 

not when the only intent was to market to a wider audience. and Nothing more. Which Hasbro stated was the only intent. Animorphs was never meant to be a part of the Transformers Brand. They only used it because like today back then. Transformers was a powerhouse brand. While the emphasis was on it being an Animorph toy line not a TF Toy line. And with the basis of Animorphs being morphing, and creating toys that do the same thing is next to impossible right now. Only other way to have something close is the tried and true method of Transforming

 

The main problem here is not the black and white, since the black and white is being ignored.

 

The problem is a perspective one.

 

Let me ask you to step back and look at this from 2 perspectives

 

Star Wars Crossovers

 

Look at it first from a TF Fan view, then look at it again from a SW Fan point of view.

 

And you will see what is actually occuring here

 

not when the only intent was to market to a wider audience. and Nothing more. Which Hasbro stated was the only intent. Animorphs was never meant to be a part of the Transformers Brand. They only used it because like today back then. Transformers was a powerhouse brand. While the emphasis was on it being an Animorph toy line not a TF Toy line. And with the basis of Animorphs being morphing, and creating toys that do the same thing is next to impossible right now. Only other way to have something close is the tried and true method of Transforming

 

The main problem here is not the black and white, since the black and white is being ignored.

 

The problem is a perspective one.

 

Let me ask you to step back and look at this from 2 perspectives

 

Star Wars Crossovers

 

Look at it first from a TF Fan view, then look at it again from a SW Fan point of view.

 

And you will see what is actually occuring here

I was considering that earlier... Let me say firstly that I don't collect SW or Marvel TFs, but speaking as a Transfan I consider Star Wars TFs to be nothing more than a Star Wars toyline that happens to borrow the gimmick of our beloved robots in disguise. The robots are mecha versions of SW characters, not TF characters (that's why I'm not interested in them BTW). Would I feel differently if I were a Star Wars fan not a Transfan? Difficult to say, but I think the main focus of those toys is the SW vehicle aspect; they are primarily aimed at SW fans. You could take the 'Transformers' logo off the packaging and the toys could still exist and I'm sure would still sell. Same goes for Marvel, neither bot nor alt has anything to do with Transformers, just like that Postman Pat robot!

 

Your point about the way Animorphs turn from one thing to another is valid, but it doesn't change the fact that the toys did use transforming to depict the morphing. Realistically there was no other way it could be done.

Ok that was easy,

 

You don't know it but you definitely lost, there is no point to arguing this first I won, then you just won it for me again.

 

Damn man come on this 2nd win was to easy.

 

Let's get on something else.

 

Oh and if you want to know how I just won with your own statements look at your last post and hopefully you will see how you lost

 

If thats what you think then your delusional.

 

Nothing you said even comes close to putting a dent in what I said.

 

Theres nothing in my last post that helps you.

 

Dream on if you want to give up.

 

BTW, hows the food?

 

I meant 'true' in response to the statement "There's nothing stopping them from creating a "transforming" toyline for their characters with out involving Hasbro in any way." ;)

 

I don't get why this thread seems to have generated such strong disagreement. I mean, Hasbro manufactured a toyline of transforming figures; Hasbro owns the brand 'Transformers'; and Hasbro labelled their line of transforming figures with the Transformers logo. Pretty cut and dried to me :shrug

Again thank you very much.

 

At least some people see things logically.

 

 

not when the only intent was to market to a wider audience. and Nothing more.

 

This has failed several times on several levels.

 

The intent of making toys to begin with is to gain a greater audience and make sales.

 

Doesnt change that the toys fall under the manufactures product line.

 

 

 

Optimus look at the history of Animorphs, the history of Star Wars, the history of Marvel, and tell me Hasbro's Transformers brand owns them.

 

I've already proven Sto_vo_kor_2000 wrong and he even proved his own own view and argument are flawed in a way where it supports those lines as being

 

You havenyt even come close

Animorph toy line

 

Star Wars toy line

 

Marvel toy line

Sorry wrong.

 

The toys that became the tf brand also had history.

 

And before Marvel started making their own toys they used 3rd party toy manufactures to make toys for them.Thasts a fact I have mentioned to you here several times and you have yet to adress it?

 

I wonder why?

 

Marvel had Mego toys make figures in the 70's.

Marvel characters but its a Mego toyline

 

Mattel made the Secret Wars line for Marvel in the 80's.

Marvel characters, Mattel toyline.

 

Marvel had Toybiz make figures in the late 80's early 90's. [before Marvel bought out the company]

Marvel characters, Toybiz toyline.

 

Marvel did not manufacture those toys.

 

The toy companies did.

 

They have equal billing rights.

 

And its no different then what the owners of the Animorphs books did with Hasbro.

Owner of Animorphs characters, Hasbro [under the TF banner] toyline

 

You have failed to show how that basic business agreement doesnt apply.

sto_vo_kor_2000 you made your whole argument irrelevant as what happened on the sites also

 

Sorry but this one is over you lost

 

Optimus Timelord, yeah this one is black and white. with too much perspective going around.

Optimus Timelord, yeah this one is black and white. with too much perspective going around.

Too much perspective... Spinal Tap reference? :tflaugh

Optimus Timelord, yeah this one is black and white. with too much perspective going around.

Too much perspective... Spinal Tap reference? :tflaugh

 

Sort of.

 

Basically whats got Sto_Vo_Kor_2000 up in arms is because Animorphs has the Transformers logo on the package. So he says Animorphs is a TF Toy Line. However he is completely ignoring the other logo on the package which is more prominent which is the Animorphs logo.

He brings up the intent of Hasbro, which he is also ignoring. The intent of Hasbro was to use the TF Brand so it would be easier to market to a wider audience. Hasbro had also stated that the emphasis is on Animorphs and not Transformers. Hasbro has also stated there never was any intention to bring Animorphs into the Transformers lines. Basically stating that the Animorphs are their own toy line the Animorph toy line.

 

Something else with Animorphs it is a franchise that existed before the toys and after the toys.

The emphasis on Morphing into another form is completely different from Transforming. However it is not cost effective and probably impossible right now to create a toy that Morphs. So they used the transforming of toys to simulate morphing.

Also the book series, the tv show, and video game all of them never had Transformers on their packages and Transformers was never referenced either in those formats.

 

1999: Animorphs was a short-lived franchise using the Transformers name but unrelated with regard to fictional backstory. As this line was in support of a non-Transformers fictional universe, no specific fiction was tied to the toy line.

 

All this is being ignored, While all this says is Animorphs is its own toy line that used the Transformers name and is not a Transformers toy line

 

Let's play with perspective also.

Star Wars Crossovers. I highly doubt George Lucas would allow it to be officially a TF Toy line. Plus from a SW Fan point of view. it is a SW Toy line. While from a TF Fan it is a TF Toy line. That is the perspective debate.

 

While in Black and White it is Star Wars Toy Line, that Hasbro brought the transforming gimmick over to. The same can be said about Marvel Crossovers.

 

However Both Star Wars crossover and Marvel crossovers are considered 1 Franchise

 

2006–2008: Star Wars Transformers combined the transforming play pattern with the characters and vehicles of the popular movie franchise. Fiction was limited to on-package bios, as this line was in support of a non-Transformers fictional universe.

2008– : Crossovers rebrands the Star Wars Transformers line, as well as bringing in transforming Marvel characters, following Hasbro's acquisition of the Marvel license.

 

 

The emphasis here is both franchises toys were made in support of non-transformers universe. Thus even this negates them being a TF Toy line