RIBFIR vs FIBRIR

[Liege Evilmus]

I wanna say something, but it's fun when you 2 get into it :P

[Stormtrooper53]

Guys, can't you both accept that everyone's opinion on the matter differs? There are perfectly legitimate reasons why someone would think that Rumble is Red and Frenzy is blue. Likewise, there are also viable reasons someone would believe that Rumble is Blue and Frenzy is Red. Both points of view are equally valid, IMO.

[Hobbes-timus Prime]

That was because of animator screwup though as seen here in the Production bible:

I have to call in to question if that matters, though.

 

To use a simplified example, if the script for Transformers 3 reads:

 

MIKELA

Sam, look out behind you!

 

But on set the day of filming, Megan Fox screams "Oh, crap, Sam, Starscream's behind you!" and then that take used in the finished film, even though the line is not exact to the filmmaker's original intent, it is still what the character of Mikela said in the context of the fictional universe.

 

The final product > filmmaker intent. Mistakes included.

Script changes are one thing. animation errors on an already established design are another. As the links above state, the toys, comics, even children's books which had all come out prior to the cartoon, had already firmly established Rumble as the red bot and Frenzy as blue, and it was Hasbro's intent that the cartoon followed suit. Somewhere along the way during production there was some miscommunication and their colors got reversed. Also, even in movies, there do occur instances where the lines are screwed up and not caught. The cartoon is but one of several "final products", and it depiction of Rumble's and Frenzy's colors was indeed erroneous compared to everything already firmly established about who was who. The cartoon was loaded with similar animation errors. And, like I said, even Japan managed to correct that error in their dub of the cartoon by simply switching their names It was a very simple fix.

My example isn't a script change, it's someone saying the wrong line on set. But they said, "Let's run with it."

 

And your example isn't as simple as an animation error. It's every single episode of the show that those characters appear in AND the '86 theatrical film. Clearly at some point someone said, "let's run with it." If they'd wanted to correct it, they would have. At some point, that has to become intent.

Actually, what you described in your movie example is what's referred to as an "ad lib". Those are quite common in movies, and often encouraged. Frenzy and rumble getting their colors swapped in the cartoon was a production error, so in that sense you're correct in that it's not as simple" as an animation error. It was far more grievous and likely happened further up the chain, and once it was done, they couldn't really undo it. The difference was that normal animation errors only happen in one shot. This occurred over a whole episode, and because of that, they were stuck with it. So in that sense, yes, they ran with it, because they couldn't really go back and change it after they had already run "X" number of episodes before it was caught. Also, for the most part, Frenzy and Rumble were basically interchangeable in the cartoon, and even sounded pretty much identical (both being voiced by Frank Welker using essentially the same voice).

A. Movies is what I do. Don't lecture me on the realities of production. The larger point that you're missing is that filmmaker intent =/= what might end up on screen. From a continuity stand point, what is on screen is "what happened" and what they intended to be onscreen is not. Period.

 

B. The other point you're missing is that they could "undo" it whenever they wanted. It was a crappy cartoon made to advertise toys. You think this discussion ever went down:

 

"Hey, we swapped the colors on the two tape guys in the three episode opening arc."

"Hell, we can't possibly ever make an episode the correct way. Our audience is way too discriminating."

"You're right. We're stuck."

 

No. This is the show that has three different Constructicon origins, for crying out loud. They didn't care enough to fix it. That becomes "intent by default."

[Tramp]

No Hobbes, It doesn't become "intent by default". It's just sloppy editing. You also missed my point entirely regarding them. In most sources, and, in particular, all of them before the cartoon came out, Frenzy was blue and Rumble was red. Only three sources have had Frenzy as the red one: the caroon, Devil's Due, and Diamond Select, and the first has been confirmed to have been a result of miscommunication somewhere along the production chain of command. Officially, Rumble is the red one, as confirmed by Hasbro and Takara, and every incarnation of these two characters that they have produced over the past two and a half decades in the order in which they were produced:

 

• ............................... Frenzy............Rumble
  Original toys .............. Blue............ Red
  Marvel comics............. Blue............Red
  Ladybird Books...........none...........Red
  Kid Stuff.....................none............Red
  US cartoon .................Red.............Blue
  Japanese cartoon.........Blue............Red
  Dreamwave comics......Blue............Red
  Devil's Due comics.......Red.............Blue
  IDW comics.................Blue............Red
  Alternators toys...........None............Red
  Diamond Select............Red.............Blue
  Music Label earphones...Blue............Red
  Robot Heroes................None............Red
  

[Stormtrooper53]

Here, allow me to point you to the one source that has probably been seen by the most people.

 

................................Frenzy............Rumble

US cartoon .................Red.............Blue

[Tramp]

Here, allow me to point you to the one source that has probably been seen by the most people.

 

................................Frenzy............Rumble

US cartoon .................Red.............Blue

IT's not a matter of "what's been seen by whom". And "by the most people" is a misnomer too since most people in the US isn't the same as most people in other countries. Most people in Japan have seen Rumbe as red, for instance. What's important is Hasbro's and Takara's view on the matter, and what colors each has appeared in the most media. In that case, Rumble as Red wins hands down, since the majority of incarnations of Rumble and Frenzy have Rumble being red and Frenzy being blue, and that is how Hasbro and Takara want it.

 

I used to think like you guys, that Rumble was blue and Frenzy was red. At one time, when I was young and foolish, I had thought that the toys were based on the show and not the other way around. That was until I learned that they were originally the opposite, and that virtually every other media, before and since has had Rumble as Red and Frenzy as Blue, and that was how Hasbro had always intended it and marketed them.

[Liege Evilmus]

Rumble

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLjmQK_AQck...feature=related

In every episode, thats what he was called, plus, I like the song :)

 

 

and not for nothing, I like this scene. Laserbeak for the wim :P

 

[Liege Evilmus]

I used to think like you guys, that Rumble was blue and Frenzy was red. At one time, when I was young and foolish...

 

Tramp, I like you man, alot of times you come up with some intresting facts and all, but this right here just makes me wish I still smoked pot!

[Tramp]

I used to think like you guys, that Rumble was blue and Frenzy was red. At one time, when I was young and foolish...

 

Tramp, I like you man, alot of times you come up with some intresting facts and all, but this right here just makes me wish I still smoked pot!

Cute. Never touch the stuff myself. My head's already screwed up enough as it is, being an artist. :D And I'm certainly not that young anymore.

 

Rumble

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLjmQK_AQck...feature=related

In every episode, thats what he was called, plus, I like the song :)

 

 

and not for nothing, I like this scene. Laserbeak for the wim :P

 

Rumble

[Liege Evilmus]

Yeah but they just read off the box(please don't ban me TFU)