Remember that Transformers don't have any true genders. The concept of "gender" for Transformers, unlike humans, is purely cosmetic. It's largely based on the asthetic design of their humanoid robot mode, voice and persona. Although the cartoon has often thrown the words "female" (and thus by default "male") Transformers around, it is actually technically inaccurate. What we really have are feminine and masculine Transformers. This means that a Transformer's gender is not determined by the set of genitals which they possess, but by the cosmetic and socio-psychological personality traits in which they exhibit.

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There's no canonical evidence denying this.

Depends on wht you look at Transformers as.  If you see them as sentient beings with "sparks/souls" and thoughts and feelings like a human yes.  If you see them as jsut robots with vague similarities to humans then no.

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Not true.

 

I beleive in the soul/spark thing and believe they can love, in the sense of caring, but they can not fall IN love, because that is something totally different.

There's just no biological need to.

 

At least not until the Beast era, which is still a maybe.

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Again, there's no canonical proof. Just because they're not made of fleshyness don't mean that they're not programmed for lust. And nanomachines can easily replicate a reproductive system. There's also no proof that there's only a handful of female TFs in existance. The TFs are fighting a war, after all; the female TFs for the most part could be home on Cybertron raising their babies and being robo-housewives.

Remember that Transformers don't have any true genders. The concept of "gender" for Transformers, unlike humans, is purely cosmetic. It's largely based on the asthetic design of their humanoid robot mode, voice and persona. Although the cartoon has often thrown the words "female" (and thus by default "male") Transformers around, it is actually technically inaccurate. What we really have are feminine and masculine Transformers. This means that a Transformer's gender is not determined by the set of genitals which they possess, but by the cosmetic and socio-psychological personality traits in which they exhibit.

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There's no canonical evidence denying this.

Depends on wht you look at Transformers as.  If you see them as sentient beings with "sparks/souls" and thoughts and feelings like a human yes.  If you see them as jsut robots with vague similarities to humans then no.

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Not true.

 

I beleive in the soul/spark thing and believe they can love, in the sense of caring, but they can not fall IN love, because that is something totally different.

There's just no biological need to.

 

At least not until the Beast era, which is still a maybe.

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Again, there's no canonical proof. Just because they're not made of fleshyness don't mean that they're not programmed for lust. And nanomachines can easily replicate a reproductive system. There's also no proof that there's only a handful of female TFs in existance. The TFs are fighting a war, after all; the female TFs for the most part could be home on Cybertron raising their babies and being robo-housewives.

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Ach, who cares about "canonical proof".  We're all talking theoretical right?  Whatthe question starts to be is "Can an AI fall in love"?  Can an AI learn how to feel and want someone in a truely emotional and caring way such as being "in love".  I believe that anything tht has a spark of sentience, (hope I spelled that right and if I didn't someone please correct me :thumb ) and can undrestand that feeling of wanting to connect on that level then it's my undrestanding that when someone, human or mechanoid, has this understanding and the want to make someone part of their lives then it's possible for that being to fall in love and experience that feeling with another accepting being.  It's not just about carnal lust but about wanting to share their heart. 

IIRC, the Marvel Comics stated that the difference between male and female TFs is basically cosmetic. I think it was in one of the letters pages. Otherwise, canonical material doesn't really show that the TFs are at all capable of lust, other than Beast Wars - which I believe exists because of the whole symbiotic relationship between the BWTFs and their carnal/primal beast aspects (as explained by Tigatron).

 

I was watching "The Girl Who Loved Powerglide" last night, and it seems that the story may have been better written than many may give it credit for. To me, the love between Powerglide and Astoria isn't based on physical attraction or lust, but out of a strong emotional and psychological bond. According to the definitions of love presented by joshlowe, we can say that although Astoria and Powerglide love each other, they are not "in" love with each other. Astoria first becomes attracted to Powerglide because he saved her life. She is amazed at his heroism, courage and fearlessness in battle. As even Megatron put it, the Decepticon Sky Raiders are supposed to be the fiercest warriors in the galaxy, but were bested by one puny Autobot plane. It's not because she thought he looked "hot" in a sensually attractive manner. Her attraction toward him became a deep familial bond, which we see manifested when she demonstrates her caring for him by tearing her dress to bind his wound. A mutual sense of caring is a fundamental element of love. In the end, Powerglide also comes to deeply care for Astoria and forms a close bond with her. It doesn't mean that he is physically attracted at all, but it does mean that he cares for her greatly and will risk his very own life to keep her safe. One touching moment was his futile attempts to take off after the Decepticons had abducted Astoria. Even though he was clearly wounded and unable to fly, he still transformed, tried to take off, and crashed. Only love would drive someone to do that, I'd say. Later, when Ratchet was repairing him, Powerglide walked out of surgery prematurely -- I loved his rebuttal to Ratchet:

"Is my wing fixed? Can I fly?"

"Well, yes but--"

"Then you're done!"

Then he single-handedly goes to rescue Astoria - flying headlong into the forcefield... a seeming act of futility, but driven by his love (re: deep sense of caring) for Astoria. Astoria in kind, sacrifices her father's life-long work to save the Autobot she loves.

The love between Astoria and Powerglide is a very pure and true form of love -- one based solely on a close emotional/psychological (and arguably spiritual) bond and deep sense of mutual caring. Astoria and Powerglide do certainly love each other, although they are not necessarily in love with each other.

IIRC, the Marvel Comics stated that the difference between male and female TFs is basically cosmetic. I think it was in one of the letters pages. Otherwise, canonical material doesn't really show that the TFs are at all capable of lust, other than Beast Wars - which I believe exists because of the whole symbiotic relationship between the BWTFs and their carnal/primal beast aspects (as explained by Tigatron).

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Then it really isn't male or female, but simply masculine and feminine, and they should all be referred to as "it" rather than "he" or "she".

I was watching "The Girl Who Loved Powerglide" last night, and it seems that the story may have been better written than many may give it credit for. To me, the love between Powerglide and Astoria isn't based on physical attraction or lust, but out of a strong emotional and psychological bond. According to the definitions of love presented by joshlowe, we can say that although Astoria and Powerglide love each other, they are not "in" love with each other. Astoria first becomes attracted to Powerglide because he saved her life. She is amazed at his heroism, courage and fearlessness in battle. As even Megatron put it, the Decepticon Sky Raiders are supposed to be the fiercest warriors in the galaxy, but were bested by one puny Autobot plane. It's not because she thought he looked "hot" in a sensually attractive manner. Her attraction toward him became a deep familial bond, which we see manifested when she demonstrates her caring for him by tearing her dress to bind his wound. A mutual sense of caring is a fundamental element of love. In the end, Powerglide also comes to deeply care for Astoria and forms a close bond with her. It doesn't mean that he is physically attracted at all, but it does mean that he cares for her greatly and will risk his very own life to keep her safe. One touching moment was his futile attempts to take off after the Decepticons had abducted Astoria. Even though he was clearly wounded and unable to fly, he still transformed, tried to take off, and crashed. Only love would drive someone to do that, I'd say. Later, when Ratchet was repairing him, Powerglide walked out of surgery prematurely -- I loved his rebuttal to Ratchet:

"Is my wing fixed? Can I fly?"

"Well, yes but--"

"Then you're done!"

Then he single-handedly goes to rescue Astoria - flying headlong into the forcefield... a seeming act of futility, but driven by his love (re: deep sense of caring) for Astoria. Astoria in kind, sacrifices her father's life-long work to save the Autobot she loves.

The love between Astoria and Powerglide is a very pure and true form of love -- one based solely on a close emotional/psychological (and arguably spiritual) bond and deep sense of mutual caring. Astoria and Powerglide do certainly love each other, although they are not necessarily in love with each other.

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Their relationship would've been far more than a strong emotional and psychological bond if Powerglide's alt mode were a "marital aid", which fits his name and bot mode look a lot more, IMO.

 

:tflaugh  :tflaugh  :tflaugh

Then it really isn't male or female, but simply masculine and feminine, and they should all be referred to as "it" rather than "he" or "she".

 

Yes... I've mentioned that before. :P

 

Although technically the masc pronoun is supposed to be used as default if something or someone is without a defined gender. But in reality, people don't seem to do this, so we just attach gender based pronouns accordingly.

Again, there's no canonical proof. Just because they're not made of fleshyness don't mean that they're not programmed for lust. And nanomachines can easily replicate a reproductive system. There's also no proof that there's only a handful of female TFs in existance. The TFs are fighting a war, after all; the female TFs for the most part could be home on Cybertron raising their babies and being robo-housewives.

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Prime's Rib.

 

And no, there is no canon that states they weren't programmed for lust, but in a non gendered species (again, Prime's rib) there would be no need for it.

 

I also wasn't talking from a canon pov, after all, according to the same continuity that gave us fembots as canon, robots have little light up hearts, a seemingly endless supply of varying weapons that can replace their hands and the ability to fly some weeks, but not others.

 

I was talking from a common sense pov.

I like common sense.  :thumb

 

 

IIRC, the Marvel Comics stated that the difference between male and female TFs is basically cosmetic. I think it was in one of the letters pages. Otherwise, canonical material doesn't really show that the TFs are at all capable of lust, other than Beast Wars - which I believe exists because of the whole symbiotic relationship between the BWTFs and their carnal/primal beast aspects (as explained by Tigatron).

 

I was watching "The Girl Who Loved Powerglide" last night, and it seems that the story may have been better written than many may give it credit for. To me, the love between Powerglide and Astoria isn't based on physical attraction or lust, but out of a strong emotional and psychological bond. According to the definitions of love presented by joshlowe, we can say that although Astoria and Powerglide love each other, they are not "in" love with each other. Astoria first becomes attracted to Powerglide because he saved her life. She is amazed at his heroism, courage and fearlessness in battle. As even Megatron put it, the Decepticon Sky Raiders are supposed to be the fiercest warriors in the galaxy, but were bested by one puny Autobot plane. It's not because she thought he looked "hot" in a sensually attractive manner. Her attraction toward him became a deep familial bond, which we see manifested when she demonstrates her caring for him by tearing her dress to bind his wound. A mutual sense of caring is a fundamental element of love. In the end, Powerglide also comes to deeply care for Astoria and forms a close bond with her. It doesn't mean that he is physically attracted at all, but it does mean that he cares for her greatly and will risk his very own life to keep her safe. One touching moment was his futile attempts to take off after the Decepticons had abducted Astoria. Even though he was clearly wounded and unable to fly, he still transformed, tried to take off, and crashed. Only love would drive someone to do that, I'd say. Later, when Ratchet was repairing him, Powerglide walked out of surgery prematurely -- I loved his rebuttal to Ratchet:

"Is my wing fixed? Can I fly?"

"Well, yes but--"

"Then you're done!"

Then he single-handedly goes to rescue Astoria - flying headlong into the forcefield... a seeming act of futility, but driven by his love (re: deep sense of caring) for Astoria. Astoria in kind, sacrifices her father's life-long work to save the Autobot she loves.

The love between Astoria and Powerglide is a very pure and true form of love -- one based solely on a close emotional/psychological (and arguably spiritual) bond and deep sense of mutual caring. Astoria and Powerglide do certainly love each other, although they are not necessarily in love with each other.

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Thats what I'm talking about exactly but I'm also saying that a true love can blossom from that act of heroism and the "damsal in distress".  What maiden hasn't fallen in love with the knight that would risk live and limb to save that person most precious to him?  And in that thinking what knight hasn't fallen in love with the the woman that he's fought hard to rescue from the clutches of tyrrany. 

 

Love and that is true love knows only with the heart and the mind's eye.  Love sometimes but not always know physicality. 

 

On bot to bot...although they may not have biological bodies in the carbon based sense, they may have astetics that are involved with them.  It just may be the way the colors of their paint app's may appeal to another bot or the way they symmetrically move.

 

and ...Although there is no canionical proof that there is a society besides warring nations on Cybertron and that there are female and to a sense children on the planet...there isn't any proof that it dosen't exist either.  It's a big big planet open to a wide array of imagination.  How do we know that it can't exist.  On earth we're discovering new species of life every day.  We saw Minicons just come out of left field.  Waaaaaaay out of left field!  LOL!  I think that saying that there couldn't be more of asociety besides warring factions is too limited.

 

I digress... Goki got a great point out there.  :thumb

Prime's Rib.

 

And no, there is no canon that states they weren't programmed for lust, but in a non gendered species (again, Prime's rib) there would be no need for it.

 

I also wasn't talking from a canon pov, after all, according to the same continuity that gave us fembots as canon, robots have little light up hearts, a seemingly endless supply of varying weapons that can replace their hands and the ability to fly some weeks, but not others.

 

I was talking from a common sense pov.

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Prime's rib? Please clarify.

 

And common sense does dictate that robots that we're used to don't have genders, but TFs are setient creatures that're not from Earth. They're from a different planet. They have far more advanced technology than we could comprehend logically. Their systems could simulate organs. I mean mass shifting already points to the presence of nanomachines, and their bodies look relatively the same before & after each alt mode change, suggesting something that's pre-programmed into their being that dictates their general looks, like DNA does in organics. Thus considering all of that, common sense can't really come into play.

RUMBLEBEE: Powerglide did not love Astoria because she was a "damsel in distress." In fact, he initially rejected her early acts of affection - one charming moment was when she leapt to hug him, he blocks her with his arm and proceeds to throw her on the ground. Powerglide came to love Astoria because it became clear to him that she genuinely cared for him - unconditionally - and Powerglide too came to form a mutual sense of unconditional caring.

 

Although there is no canionical proof that there is a society besides warring nations on Cybertron

Yes there is. There are many unaligned neutral TFs on Cybertron such as Maccadam (who runs Maccadam's oilhouse in neutral territory), Spanner (the architect of the Decepticons' Space Bridge) and the bounty hunter known as Devcon.

 

and that there are female and to a sense children on the planet...there isn't any proof that it dosen't exist either.

As discussed before, the Transformers aren't really male or female, they are masculine and feminine. Boats are considered to be feminine, hence we refer to them with feminine pronouns (e.g.: "She's a fine yacht."), but they are by no means female as they lack the presence of female genitalia (which is what really defines sexual gender).

 

As for children, the only canonical source for this is the Transformers Victory manga - the G1 manga was clearly written for a very young audience... the "female" Decepticons and their "children" only existed as a really lame plot device... althouh Laizak is a bit of a robo-MILF. ;p

 

It's a big big planet open to a wide array of imagination.  How do we know that it can't exist.  On earth we're discovering new species of life every day.  We saw Minicons just come out of left field.  Waaaaaaay out of left field!  LOL!

Mini-Cons exist in a separate continuity/reality, so it's a moot point.

 

Lazerblast: There's nothing in canon to prove what you're claiming either. So they're sentient... so what? They're still machines. In fact, there is plenty of canonical evidence to prove that the Transformers reproduce asexually. The typical way of procreation for a Transformer is to construct a body before infusing it with sentience/life - depending on canonical source. This could be done via the Creation Matrix, as demonstrated in the G1 comics, or through Vector Sigma, as demonstrated with the Aerialbots and Stunticons in the cartoon. In the case of the Dinobots and Constructicons in the cartoon, neither seemed necessary - these Transformers seemed "programmed" with lifelike sentience... of course, G1 cartoon canon is notoriously inconsistent. :P

 

Even the ancient TFs who could actually procreate, did so with some kind of mechanised form of mitosis - which even from a biological POV, is an asexual form of reproduction.

Prime's rib? Please clarify.

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Prime's rib is, to date, the only official origin of Arcee (I think).

It's not particularly clever or subtle in it's humour but is a send up of the whole fembot concept.

 

It's 1995, the Autobots and humans now have some form of understanding, which leads to the building of Autobot city earth.

And as feminist groups have been protesting that the Autobots are sexist by being to masculine, they build the first ever fembot to improve realtions.

 

The Decepticons attack, the Autobots Act "manly" to protect her, she doesn't need it, girl power yadda, yadda, yadda.

 

Lots of stupid little jokes such as the feminists still not being happy because a pink girl with those proportions is a sexist sterotype and Jazz saying he thinks the difference between them and this new bot is something to do with the upper chasis, and you have an "introduction" that suits the ridiculousness of the original concept.

 

Hence my cartoon - yes, anything written with common sense, no.

 

The show aired on TV, it was free.

The comic however, had to actually keep people's interest and get them to shell out the cash every month (or fortnight in the UK), so they had to think a little more carefully on what they did and didn't include, it had to compete with Marvel and DC's finest.

And the UK often pushed non toy characters and similar to do so, as the US strips were the toy adverts.

If the concept of fembots, of falling in love was really workable, if it could really stand up outside of a kid's show, they wouldn't have hesitated in putting it in.