One must also remember the Oracle, the mythical super-computer that foretold the coming of the Transformers to Cybertron. Presumably it was within Cybertron's core but thought to be lost for centuries.

 

Optimus Primal and the Maximals rediscovered it but has Cybertron been rebuilt, the Transformers should have known about it.

 

Same with the organic core which was also mentioned in Beast Machines in which we learn that Cybertron was once organic and that it was now Primal's mission to restore the organic part of Cybertron.

 

During a reconstruction they must have found out about any organic parts.

 

Which would indicate that the Japanese cartoons do not match what is later established in Beast Wars/Beast Machines.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I am still confused about the oracle - was it the program the Quints initiated to control vector sigma and became something else later or was it something diff before? - sorry that always confuses me....

Would think the Oracle predates even the Quintessons. I never really liked them and to think they created the Transformers.  :tfpuke

 

I will need to rewatch Beast Machimes to see what else the Oracle did. Almost now as the DVD box will soon be released.

The text is small but still readable

...okay, utterly ignoring all that emo angst...

 

I think U just agreed with X-bob and have no idea what u r talking about -

I know what I'm talking about. I'm having trouble understanding what you're talking about, but you seem reluctant in assisting me in understanding you better... and then getting all upset when I fail to satisfactorily answer your question. 

 

Okay, now without any further emo angst...

 

Here is what we know from canon:

1. Cybertron was mostly destroyed and Rodimus Convoy, Char and Blurr went formed an expeditionary mission to find a new planet for the Transformers to live on.

2. By the end of the Great War (the signing of Pax Cybertronia), we see that the Transformers are living on Cybertron.

3. We know that this Cybertron contains Vector Sigma as well as many other ancient parts of Cybertron, including elements of the first Golden Age, as seen in Beast Machines.

4. We also know that this Cybertron has an ancient organic core, which contains DNA from the original organic inhabitants of Cybertron.

 

So how can Japanese G1 continuity fit into Beast Wars/Machines?

 

Working with the four pieces of canonical evidence that I've just stated, we may postulate the following theories:

 

#1: - The Xeno-Genesis Theory

This theory suggests that Rodimus Convoy's expedition found a new world that was suitable for reconstruction as a new Cybertron. The remains of the old Cybertron were transported to this new planet and reintegrated when it was reconstructed - hence why extremely ancient elements such as the organic core etc. are present in Beast Machines.

 

#2: The Reconstructionalist Theory

This theory suggests that Rodimus Convoy's expedition did not find a new world for the Transformers to resettle, however, the Transformers found some means of rebuilding the planet Cybertron. As we saw in The Headmasters, Cybertron was not completely obliterated. Thus Cybertron was somehow rebuilt, with a lot of its organic core and ancient layers partially or completely restored. How this could have happened we don't know. One would think that it's highly unlikely that the Transformers would have physically rebuilt it themselves, not whilst their resources were being spent fighting a war. Perhaps another race such as the Quintessons may have returned to rebuild it. Or more likely, there could have been divine intervention - Rodimus Convoy may have discovered a way to use the divine power of the Matrix to restore Cybertron.

 

We don't know for sure... all we do know for certain is that Cybertron exists towards the end of the Great Wars, because as the BotCon comics clearly show, the Pax Cybertronia was signed on Cybertron.

 

At least X-bob stayed on subject never went into petty stuff - he backed up what he thought with facts, links, and even pictures - that is all I ask

Unless otherwise stated, everything I've presented has been based on canonical facts.

...okay, utterly ignoring all that emo angst...

 

I think U just agreed with X-bob and have no idea what u r talking about -

I know what I'm talking about. I'm having trouble understanding what you're talking about, but you seem reluctant in assisting me in understanding you better... and then getting all upset when I fail to satisfactorily answer your question. 

 

Okay, now without any further emo angst...

 

Here is what we know from canon:

1. Cybertron was mostly destroyed and Rodimus Convoy, Char and Blurr went formed an expeditionary mission to find a new planet for the Transformers to live on.

2. By the end of the Great War (the signing of Pax Cybertronia), we see that the Transformers are living on Cybertron.

3. We know that this Cybertron contains Vector Sigma as well as many other ancient parts of Cybertron, including elements of the first Golden Age, as seen in Beast Machines.

4. We also know that this Cybertron has an ancient organic core, which contains DNA from the original organic inhabitants of Cybertron.

 

So how can Japanese G1 continuity fit into Beast Wars/Machines?

 

Working with the four pieces of canonical evidence that I've just stated, we may postulate the following theories:

 

#1: - The Xeno-Genesis Theory

This theory suggests that Rodimus Convoy's expedition found a new world that was suitable for reconstruction as a new Cybertron. The remains of the old Cybertron were transported to this new planet and reintegrated when it was reconstructed - hence why extremely ancient elements such as the organic core etc. are present in Beast Machines.

 

#2: The Reconstructionalist Theory

This theory suggests that Rodimus Convoy's expedition did not find a new world for the Transformers to resettle, however, the Transformers found some means of rebuilding the planet Cybertron. As we saw in The Headmasters, Cybertron was not completely obliterated. Thus Cybertron was somehow rebuilt, with a lot of its organic core and ancient layers partially or completely restored. How this could have happened we don't know. One would think that it's highly unlikely that the Transformers would have physically rebuilt it themselves, not whilst their resources were being spent fighting a war. Perhaps another race such as the Quintessons may have returned to rebuild it. Or more likely, there could have been divine intervention - Rodimus Convoy may have discovered a way to use the divine power of the Matrix to restore Cybertron.

 

We don't know for sure... all we do know for certain is that Cybertron exists towards the end of the Great Wars, because as the BotCon comics clearly show, the Pax Cybertronia was signed on Cybertron.

 

At least X-bob stayed on subject never went into petty stuff - he backed up what he thought with facts, links, and even pictures - that is all I ask

Unless otherwise stated, everything I've presented has been based on canonical facts.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

so unless u make Blot up or speculate u r completely wrong and have no fact to give me - so no - cybertron did not show up in battlestars - either of those theories u just presented are completely assumed - u r going to have to admit u r wrong here - cybertron was not in battlestars - most of the action I know of took place on earth or in space - if there evidence of this otherwise I have yet to see it - yes - theories can be MADE UP to explain how cybertron was reconstructed or found anew, but the fact is this is never made clear or stated - transformers homeplanet was Zone in Zone - this is the planet they take the earthlings to visit and where Star Saber passes the supreme commander title onto Dai Atlus - all transformers at this point are based out of the Zone planet - it did start to resemble cybertron a bit I guess being all contructed things and no nature to be seen - so this is a discrepancy - beast wars could not have taken place in Jap continuity unles they presented an explanation on Seibertron....

 

those two theories are nothing but that....theories - fan-fiction - the bot comics followed the same mistake but those are based in english I think - I am not well versed in the botcon comics so X-bob may be able to help us there - but I think those were created in english and not translated - so - all of those were correct since we ended at rebirth with cybertron very much in tact - it is the jap series that falls short of being able to support the beast wars unless they opt for one of your made up theories - as for canon - what happened does not work -

 

o - and yeah - I do get pissed when u attack me personally about spelling - my favorite part is that I did not misspell anything - I just abbreviated - in fact others misspelled stuff before me and u did not say anything about them - u attack me cause I just proved u wrong and meanwhile the people that were on side get a "out of jail free card" - u r weak d00d - sorry  -having to resort to that is just sad...

 

we should be stoked, as to my knowledge this has never been addressed, and I am a big time trans nerdo - so really we should be thinking togethor instead of fighting - but I see u have a hard time admitting u r wrong - try it out - it is liberating - hehehehehh......

 

X-bob can u explain how the botcon comics are addressed in jap - are they trans - or do we trans from them?

 

*real misspelling - had to change it*

The Botcon Comics are written in English, I think that the only botcon material printed in japenese are the japenese exclusive's techspecs

All these theories remind me of the fan written theories on why the Klingons had smooth heads in TOS but ridged heads in the movies and the newer series while it was simply a matter of make up developments.  :tftongue

 

Still people came up with the most crazy theories even saying there were Klingon/Romulan hybrids. Finally the issue was adressed in Enterprise.

 

If they were ever to make Transtech in the US and established that Cybertron had once been destroyed, I will consider it canon. Untill then, the Japanese cartoons are a seperate continuity to me.

 

I think both the Xeno-Genesis story and the The Reconstructionalist Theory sound pretty  far off. I think the main reason why Rodimus, Kup and Blurr left was to get them out of the way. They were not part of the new cast/toyline and only took up air time.

 

I am not sure if the story was meant to be followed up on but given the quality of cartoon writing both US and Japanese, I somehow doubt it.

 

In any case, I still feel BW is a continuation of the US G1 show and not the Japanese shows.

ruru - first of all, it was XBob who initially stated that Cybertron was in Battlestars. I later concurred with him - and since then I've gone back and re-read my Battlestars manga (earlier today).

 

Secondly, what else do you expect people to do outside of stating canonical facts or making theoretical presumptions??? Really?! You asked a question, I answered with, "well, the facts are A, B and C, and from these facts the following theories COULD be true." That's how rational logic works. We observe, we gather facts - where there are a lack of facts we make theoretical presumptions based on the actual facts that we have observed - but the facts and theories are always clearly labelled so that they are never confused for each other. For example, gravity is a fact, the Big Bang is a theory - whether you agree with the Big Bang or not is irrelevant, it is a theory based on actual observed science. What else do you expect people to do?

 

Thirdly, correcting your spelling is NOT a personal attack. You may have chosen to go all emo and take it personally, but it's not. A personal attack is a character assassination, like if I were say stuff like, "you're a dick," or "you're sad," etc. Those are examples of personal attacks. Criticising your actions is NOT a personal attack. It is not an indictment of your character.

 

That's all I have to say to you about this in public... the rest I shall discuss with you privately, which is where all personal grievances belong. (-_-)

 

Let's get back to talking about Transformers here...

I dare say you're brilliant for how well you pwned him, Goki.

http://botcon.com/archive/story/2001/page6.jpg

http://botcon.com/archive/story/2001/page7.jpg

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

what the hell insignia does springer have o his chest?

 

#2: The Reconstructionalist Theory

This theory suggests that Rodimus Convoy's expedition did not find a new world for the Transformers to resettle, however, the Transformers found some means of rebuilding the planet Cybertron. As we saw in The Headmasters, Cybertron was not completely obliterated. Thus Cybertron was somehow rebuilt, with a lot of its organic core and ancient layers partially or completely restored. How this could have happened we don't know. One would think that it's highly unlikely that the Transformers would have physically rebuilt it themselves, not whilst their resources were being spent fighting a war. Perhaps another race such as the Quintessons may have returned to rebuild it. Or more likely, there could have been divine intervention - Rodimus Convoy may have discovered a way to use the divine power of the Matrix to restore Cybertron.

 

i like this theory. if a space monkey could build unicron, im sure the remaining autobots could rebuild cybertron in their spare time.

 

and am i the only one tired of these arguements? and you doesnt equal u. dont be so lazy.