What majin said.

 

Why call the guy in RID "Megatron"? Because the name is part of the Transformers tradition. But each itieration is still seperate and independent form the others, and puts its own stamp on those character archtypes.

 

Sometimes that means Megatron is purple and turns into, among other things, a giant disembodied hand. Sometimes that means Starscream's knees bend backwards.

 

Sometimes it means this:

 

http://www.tfu.info/1995/Autobot/OptimusPr...ptimusprime.htm

 

So what?

I see where you are coming from, but for the sake of a good healthy debate...

 

I think we are smarter than that. Is an orange still an orange even though it tastes like an apple and came from the apple tree? Lot's of current fans hate the G1 series yet the creators keeping tapping into the core of it (pun intended) for names and personalities. I'd rather have some originality than a dull faded shadow of a brilliant past.

 

 

No. It's an apple.

 

But here's the thing, Transformers, for your metaphor to work, aren't apples or oranges, they're fruit.

 

And Starscream's an apple. But is he a Granny Smith, or a Red Delicious, or a Golden Delicious? A Fuji? A Braeburn?

 

And the answer is, he's potientially any one of these. It all depends on if you pick from a G1 tree, or a A/E/C tree, or a Japanesse G1 tree, or a War Within Comic tree.

 

Still an apple, still Starscream, but with never the same fruit as you'd get on any other tree.

 

And the reason the G1 fanboys get so much grief, at least from me, is because they're sitting in a corner, clutching tightly to one single apple variety that was cultivated 20 years ago, and telling me it's not okay if I sample from any of the other trees.

 

Because that's what you're doing when you scream that Bay is screwing up the apple you love. You're implying that it isn't okay for anyone else to want anything that isn't that apple vareity. You're saying Bay (or Hasbro, or Takara, or whoever) should only be growing that same, single apple vareity you enjoy.

 

It's a selfish and greedy POV. I'm sorry you don't like Jonagold apples, but the Gala tree is right there, where it always was. Go eat some of them and leave me alone. Hell, I might just want someone to make me a pie outta these apples. I wonder how Starscream will look then?

 

 

 

 

Can you tell I googled "Apple varieties" for this? :tflaugh

I usually cut a hole in the apple and totally bone it.

I usually cut a hole in the apple and totally bone it.

 

If you microwave it for a few seconds, it gets softer. and warm, too.

What majin said.

 

Why call the guy in RID "Megatron"? Because the name is part of the Transformers tradition. But each itieration is still seperate and independent form the others, and puts its own stamp on those character archtypes.

 

Sometimes that means Megatron is purple and turns into, among other things, a giant disembodied hand. Sometimes that means Starscream's knees bend backwards.

 

Sometimes it means this:

 

http://www.tfu.info/1995/Autobot/OptimusPr...ptimusprime.htm

 

So what?

I see where you are coming from, but for the sake of a good healthy debate...

 

I think we are smarter than that. Is an orange still an orange even though it tastes like an apple and came from the apple tree? Lot's of current fans hate the G1 series yet the creators keeping tapping into the core of it (pun intended) for names and personalities. I'd rather have some originality than a dull faded shadow of a brilliant past.

 

 

No. It's an apple.

 

But here's the thing, Transformers, for your metaphor to work, aren't apples or oranges, they're fruit.

 

And Starscream's an apple. But is he a Granny Smith, or a Red Delicious, or a Golden Delicious? A Fuji? A Braeburn?

 

And the answer is, he's potientially any one of these. It all depends on if you pick from a G1 tree, or a A/E/C tree, or a Japanesse G1 tree, or a War Within Comic tree.

 

Still an apple, still Starscream, but with never the same fruit as you'd get on any other tree.

 

And the reason the G1 fanboys get so much grief, at least from me, is because they're sitting in a corner, clutching tightly to one single apple variety that was cultivated 20 years ago, and telling me it's not okay if I sample from any of the other trees.

 

Because that's what you're doing when you scream that Bay is screwing up the apple you love. You're implying that it isn't okay for anyone else to want anything that isn't that apple vareity. You're saying Bay (or Hasbro, or Takara, or whoever) should only be growing that same, single apple vareity you enjoy.

 

It's a selfish and greedy POV. I'm sorry you don't like Jonagold apples, but the Gala tree is right there, where it always was. Go eat some of them and leave me alone. Hell, I might just want someone to make me a pie outta these apples. I wonder how Starscream will look then?

 

 

 

 

Can you tell I googled "Apple varieties" for this? :tflaugh

:tflaugh Was gonna ask if you worked for a produce company! I just wanna keep that ape of a Starscream off my favorite tree. Why didn't they pick from the Armada tree, or the Energon tree?

 

Just so's you don't think I'm all kinds of gullible, I do realize that the whole decision making designs and changes have been made to maximize profits for both Hasbro and Bay and Co. Who better to get jazzed up for a live-action Transformers movie than the original fans who have been lusting after one for 20 years. :thumb Bring on Voltron I say!

also, this is a new movie. a new direction for the series.

it's not G1, BW or Armada. the characters dont have to look like the same thing over and over again.

I really don't get it.

 

No mass shifting basically means Bay and co can't cheat with the transfomations or either mode. Every individual piece of whatever vehicle used has to be able to be manipulated in way to suit both modes without losing any of it. As amazing as the alt line is they are in no way realistically presented. Not exactly shell formers but each vehicle sacrificed nearly everything that holds a real vehicle together for the bot mode pieces. Bay simply can't do this. He approached this realistically and as an ending result I find the streamlined exoframed bot modes fairly believable. Considering Prime is what is it 32 feet tall I honestly can see how Prime would look the way he does. Same with Bumblebee, and any others. You only have so much room to fit a robot within the confined space of a semi/car. It obviously doesn't take a super genius to figure any of this out. Bay and Co have IMO done absolutely nothing wrong they just gave us realistic transforming robots probably the only way they could have been done without cheating the internal components needed to make it believable.

I can't say I agree with that rationality. No mass shifting doesn't mean that pieces of the car can't fold over onto themselve's, overlap, and or telescope to the appropriate size. To the extreme, I can fold an 8x11.5 sheet of paper into 1 square inch. The mass hasn't changed, but the size is a whole lot smaller. This is alien tech here. If the designers wanted to, they could have made it work. I just think they wanted something really flashy and different looking. They were going to make damn sure that they could get a toy line out of this also. I think all these points lead to the radical re-design. I don't believe their no mass-shifting excuse for a second.

Thanks for the intelligent discussion everyone. All valid points. Especially the one about the apple in the microwave :tflaugh It's good to see that we can all have a civil discussion about this movie without tearing eachother apart. Restores my faith in the TFans Community it does. :thumb

also, this is a new movie. a new direction for the series.

it's not G1, BW or Armada. the characters dont have to look like the same thing over and over again.

To expand on this...

 

We have had G1 remake/rehash/homage/whatever you want to say for the last 5 years. It started with RID and continued on through Armada, Energon, Cybertron, Alternators, and the coming Classics line.

 

I, for one, am glad we are getting such a radical change in design for the movie. G1 cannot continue to be a basis for all future Transformers products. In 1996, Transformers received a DRASTIC change with the introduction of Beast Wars. The mere thought of using animals was unheard of and blasphemy. But within time many people have come to accept BW. No one can deny what BW did for Transformers. It brought a dying toy franchise back from the dead. Change was necessary and it was good for the franchise because here we are 10 years later and Transformers is still going strong because of it.

 

But we find ourselves at a crossroads once again. Can Transformers continue with the G1 vehicle based philosophy? I do not believe so. Hasbro sees the 'big picture' and realizes that they need to change their approach in order to keep Transformers from stagnating. Afterall, Hasbro has essentially given us G1 these last 5 years. It cannot go on forever with G1 as the only means of inspiring a new series and toy line. While this will anger many, the changes being done are necessary to preserve the strength of the Transformers brand.

Even though I'm one of the older fans since the 80s, I have to admit that the TF ideas do need to come from new sources. G1 was good in it's day, it gave a universe of imagination to play in and create from. But it's over 2 decades old now and the ideas are fairly stale.

Having the movie being based off the old G1 ideas sounds good on paper, but in our modern times of CGI movies, hardly any acting at times, big budgets and done to death happy endings, then the ideas don't sound like they'll fit in all that well.

The older fans remember Transformers for what they were in the old cartoon with robot modes that gave a good glimpse of what the vehicle mode was, so far these live action Transformers don't have that glimpse, from what's been shown anyway. Fans might love the movie, they might hate the movie. No one knows till it's released.

The thing is, though, is that G1 has been finished for a fairly long time and the newer cartoons are suffering from being infused with G1 ideas that don't fit in very well. You just have to look at RID, Armada, Energon and Cybertron to see how it's too loose a fit. Those cartoons have been tagged as being in new universes, yet they're done as little more than a G1 Rehash in points.

G1 is a little like Kirk, Kirk's dead and he keeps coming back in Shatner's ego driven Kirk stories, G1 is dead and it keeps coming back in half-baked rehashes. It's long past time for new ideas that could attract the kids of these days since that is Hasbro's marketing ploy. The old ideas don't interest them, not as they used to interest kids of the 80s. Transformers is long due for new infusions of new, never tried before ideas.

G1 is dead, it's time for it to be left in peace. It was good in it's hey day, but this isn't the 80s any more.

 

-.*~¬

What majin said.

 

Why call the guy in RID "Megatron"? Because the name is part of the Transformers tradition. But each itieration is still seperate and independent form the others, and puts its own stamp on those character archtypes.

 

Sometimes that means Megatron is purple and turns into, among other things, a giant disembodied hand. Sometimes that means Starscream's knees bend backwards.

 

Sometimes it means this:

 

http://www.tfu.info/1995/Autobot/OptimusPr...ptimusprime.htm

 

So what?

I see where you are coming from, but for the sake of a good healthy debate...

 

I think we are smarter than that. Is an orange still an orange even though it tastes like an apple and came from the apple tree? Lot's of current fans hate the G1 series yet the creators keeping tapping into the core of it (pun intended) for names and personalities. I'd rather have some originality than a dull faded shadow of a brilliant past.

 

 

No. It's an apple.

 

But here's the thing, Transformers, for your metaphor to work, aren't apples or oranges, they're fruit.

 

And Starscream's an apple. But is he a Granny Smith, or a Red Delicious, or a Golden Delicious? A Fuji? A Braeburn?

 

And the answer is, he's potientially any one of these. It all depends on if you pick from a G1 tree, or a A/E/C tree, or a Japanesse G1 tree, or a War Within Comic tree.

 

Still an apple, still Starscream, but with never the same fruit as you'd get on any other tree.

 

And the reason the G1 fanboys get so much grief, at least from me, is because they're sitting in a corner, clutching tightly to one single apple variety that was cultivated 20 years ago, and telling me it's not okay if I sample from any of the other trees.

 

Because that's what you're doing when you scream that Bay is screwing up the apple you love. You're implying that it isn't okay for anyone else to want anything that isn't that apple vareity. You're saying Bay (or Hasbro, or Takara, or whoever) should only be growing that same, single apple vareity you enjoy.

 

It's a selfish and greedy POV. I'm sorry you don't like Jonagold apples, but the Gala tree is right there, where it always was. Go eat some of them and leave me alone. Hell, I might just want someone to make me a pie outta these apples. I wonder how Starscream will look then?

 

 

 

 

Can you tell I googled "Apple varieties" for this? :tflaugh

:tflaugh Was gonna ask if you worked for a produce company! I just wanna keep that ape of a Starscream off my favorite tree. Why didn't they pick from the Armada tree, or the Energon tree?

 

...my whole point is that they grew their own tree and left your tree the heck alone. They didn't pick from any existing tree, and all those old tress are still sitting around for you to pick from without Bay's influence.

 

Just so's you don't think I'm all kinds of gullible, I do realize that the whole decision making designs and changes have been made to maximize profits for both Hasbro and Bay and Co.

 

:roll Well, of course it is. No one makes a summer action movie out of the kindness of their heart. That's never happened in the history of mankind. Anyone who thinks otherwise is asking for dissapointment.

 

Who better to get jazzed up for a live-action Transformers movie than the original fans who have been lusting after one for 20 years. :thumb

 

How about an all new audience that can help the property grow and expand. That will, in time, benefit the 20 year long fans (of which I am one, make no mistake) more than most of them realize.