Hope that title makes sense because I did not know what else to call this topic. Anywhoo , let me try to explain.

 

I was recently browsing to a Spider-Man comic which had a story with Venom. It turned out that Eddie Brock has cancer and was dying which is a reason why the symbiont bonded with him.

 

However, the original origin story never mentioned that. It was just Eddie who lost his job due to Peter Paker who as Spider-Man also rejected the symbiont and they bonded to become Venom. This new addition seemed as it was tacked on a bit and I did not like it.

 

But things like these are done often and also in the Transformers Universe.

 

The Beast Wars comic for example. I loved Beast Wars as a show so the idea of a comic was a great one. Sadly it does not feature show characters which is a shame.

 

However, that would not be too bad if the story is good. Which it is and it tries to enhance the Beast Wars story but does not fully succeed.

 

When it came to new Transformers there was a logic in BW. The stasis pods in the first season would create regular Transformers. In season 2, the pods Megatron found suffered from the quantum surge causing their targeting scanners to fail resulting in the fuzors.

 

The only Transmetal 2 that emerged from a pod was Dinobot and he was altered by Megatron using the TM2 driver. Why Optimus Prima, Depthcharge and Rampage were Transmetals was never addressed but the explanations for the Fuzors and Transmetal 2's was a decent one.

 

However, in the Beast Wars comic all kinds of Transformers are emerging from the pods which does not make much sense to me and it does not fit with the Beast Wars story.

 

I feel the same way about linking this show to the Japanese Beast Wars shows. At the time this show was made it was not meant to link with the Japanese shows. The writers of the Japanese shows did (try to) connect their shows to Beast Wars but never the way around.

 

The writers never said anything about additional expeditions or anything and just because Furman is one of the greatest writers for Transformers does not justify him changing what the writers of Beast Wars established.

 

Same goes for Hasbro, they may want to link this show to the others but it was never meant to be that way. Why not leave it be? It was the greatest thing in Transformers history but just let it rest. It is like those movies where part 1 is great (perhaps part 2 as well) but then they have to make more and more sequals and end up ruining the whole series. (Child's Play/Chucky comes to mind.)

 

Hasbro did a similar thing in regards to Beast Machines. They changed the backstory of the Oracle to be a Quintesson creation. That totally ruins the cool aspect of the Oracle. It beeing a mythical supercomputer added a lot of Beast Machines and it was what Bob Skir wanted it to be.

 

As for Beast Machines, the comic mentions Ravage's Transwarp cruiser and how Optinus Minor searches it for a transwarp cell. But I am sure that ship was completely destroyed. Even if it was not, the aft section was and that is where the engine parts are so finding a transwarp cell there is highly improbable.

 

Especially when both Megatron and Turantulas are always on the look out for stuff that can advance their plans and are sure to have tried to locate anything of value. Just because it was never shown on screen does not mean it did not happen.

 

Furman disregarded these events somewhat and it kinda cheapens the Beast Wars story in my opinion. I mean the writers made a solid story if there ever was any and this makes thing seem they did leave things unresolved.

 

It really cheapens a story as far as I am concerned and I think this should be avoided as much as possible.

 

The same goes for the Japanese G1 shows. Hasbro is trying to connect them to the US continuity but I wonder why. The story does not fit in with the US continuity all that well and the Japanese did disregard the US show when they made theirs.

 

G1 ended at its best when the show was still popular and "Rebirth" was a good ending as there ever was for a 80's cartoon. Better to end it than let it continue and deteriorate every year.

 

I mean season 1 was solid, season 2 was even better but season 3 had some really bad episodes. Also some good ones but overall it was worse than season 2. Season 4 I liked. Headmasters was worse than season 3 (it did have a good start) and I have a feeling it will only go downhill from there.

 

(I am planning to buy the Masterforce Box set but I am not hopeful. I will probably dislike it more than Headmasters.)

 

Besides, aside from cheapening the story/show it makes things a whole lot simpler to keep things separated.

The BW comic has been bugging me as well.  It is an awesome story idea and such, but the thing that has been bugging me is the fact that Magmatron, the other predacons and the maximals (etc.) all landed and adopted different forms (i.e. some transmetal, some fuzors, some regular beasts)

 

Shouldnt they ALL be transmetals? upon trans-warping to prehistoric earth, didnt they pass through the transmetal "energy field" caused by the exploding "planet buster"? (i.e. the reason why Depthcharge was a transmetal)

 

I'm just getting to much into detail......... :roll

The exposure to the quantum surge is not consistent in its effect. After all, Airazor and Tigatron were also aboard the bridge of the Axalon and bombarded by the quantum surge, yet neither of them became Transmetals. Depth Charge's Skyhopper was hit by a quantum surge when he appeared in pre-historic Earth time and space... and the fact that his body was glowing white indicated that he was becoming a Transmetal - in fact, it was the quantum surge that made him lose control of his Skyhopper and crash on Earth.

 

I personally love the fact that the IDW comics is using a lot of non-show characters. The show-characters have already had their careers well highlighted in the show. To use show characters would also limit what you can do with them because it would be a lot harder to create an original story without contradictiong existing continuity. By using non-show characters, you have far greater freedom in what you can do. Any of the non-show characters can be drastically changed or killed off etc., and it would not effect existing continuity. Having said that, Magmatron does not count as a non-show character - he is the only character who must survive the story, otherwise the comics would conflict with established canon (and yes, it would establish the comics as being separate from Japanese continuity - but only if that happened - the rest of the cast are non-show characters and therefore expendible).

 

Also, the one disadvantage of CG animation was that it always limited the number of characters that could appear in the show, due to the fact that it's a very expensive form of animation. As a result, only a limited number of BW toys ever appeared in the show, with a lot of toys missing out. The IDW comics now finally gives some of these toys a chance to play a part in the Beast Wars mythos.

 

Also, a lot of continuing scifi is subject to retconning. Including Star Wars (e.g.: Midichlorians), Star Trek (e.g.: Klingons' appearance) etc. If it really bugs you, then don't read the universe expansions. :P

The Klingon appereance issue was officially resolved in a way that makes perfect sense. In fact, it added an extra dimension to the whole thing.

 

I cannot say the same for the various thing that were later retconned in Transformers. Plus it was never done in any major forum. I mean, not everyone reads the botcon comics, heck a lot of fans do not even read the regular comics. If Hasbro wants to link certain tv show then let them do so in another tv-show.

 

And Beast Wars was consistant when it came to Transmetals as every Transformer that was "born" on prehistoric earth was not affected by the Transwarp shockwave. The ones who had traveled from Cybertron were affected except for those in stasis pods or cr chambers.

 

So it must have had something do so with they physiology as the original crews got a beast mode after they landed on Earth whereas the others had one the moment they were activated.

 

And Magmatron does not have to survive the story. I would not mind if Magmatron did die. In fact I would like it as it would close off the eternal debate wheter Japanese shows are canon as well as this story line. But I doubt that would happen.

 

Would be a nice change from Beast Wars. Megatron had his entire crew (save Waspinator) and several of the Maximals killed for his insane plans. Yet, he survived. Now Magmatron's maniacal plans threaten to kill many others so I think he should get his reward for that.

 

I mean we all know what happend because Megatron was allowed to come back to Cybertron as a prisoner. Why risk that (again)?

 

It is neat to see all the unused characters from Beast Wars and it helps that they are new characters which gives a lot of creative freedom.

 

However I really liked the show having few characters as it allowed for excellent characterizations which the latter shows really lacked. Especially with humans taking the spot light.

 

Cybertron did have a few toys cut from the show but sadly that were always the good ones. I mean why is Thunderblast in the show while the toy is pretty awful and not Downshift who is one of the best deluxes I have seen in a long time.

Shouldnt they ALL be transmetals? upon trans-warping to prehistoric earth, didnt they pass through the transmetal "energy field" caused by the exploding "planet buster"? (i.e. the reason why Depthcharge was a transmetal)

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They were all Transmetals before they adapted beast modes.

The writers never said anything about additional expeditions or anything and just because Furman is one of the greatest writers for Transformers does not justify him changing what the writers of Beast Wars established.

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It is not the show.

 

It is a seperate venture, a seperate continuity if you will, and Furman has as much right to mess around with what Beast Wars established as Beast Wars and Machines did G1.

 

G1 was no different either.

It was the same name, same figures, same personalities, but a different continuity, one with certain facts being different.

Prime was never Orion Pax, there were no fembots, the Dionobots were from Cybertron, Grimlock was smart, Jetfire was built on Earth, Unicron and Primus were gods, the movie was set to happen in the future, but time could be changed, it didn't have to play out like that at all and so on.

 

Armada too was different to the show.

 

As long as Transformers has existed, the shows and comics have been different, contradicted one another, and I imagine that will continue.

As Lord Madhammer pointed out in another thread, Hasbro has shown minimal interest in maintaining consistent continuity for Transformers mythos. They've merely been blessed with dedicated writers who've tried to maintain it... so it's never been a huge surprise that a lot of universe expansion has been in limited productions such as the 3H comics. Also, although Transfandom was exploding in the late 90s and early 00s, it wasn't really until the last two years or so that a retail-distributed comic based on such a hardcore element of the TF mythos was commercially viable. Even the early Dreamwave comics were based on broad G1 and the current toylines... it wasn't until 2004 that fan interest justified delving into more "specialised" areas such as War Within, the Micromasters series etc.

 

As for the Transmetal thing, perhaps the Maximals that were Transmetalised were pre-existing Maximals that had been placed into stasis - much like Protoform X (although not necessarily for the same reasons/intentions).

 

Magmatron would have to survive in order for the IDW comic to remain in canon. If Magmatron were to die, then it would create a rift in continuity. There is no debate about the Japanese BW being in continuity with the Canadian show. This was established in the Beast Wars movie. It doesn't matter if the Canadian writers weren't aware of this... Bob Budiansky wasn't necessarily aware of how Simon Furman was expanding his stories in the UK G1 comics, but that lack of awareness does not effect the canonicity of the UK comics. That's not to say that Magmatron is guaranteed to live... Furman has created continuity rifts before, just look at G1's Earthforce. Time will tell...

 

The IDW comic also does focus on a limited cast of characters, since the show characters are largely not being involved in the story so far.

 

Cybertron did have a few toys cut from the show but sadly that were always the good ones. I mean why is Thunderblast in the show while the toy is pretty awful and not Downshift who is one of the best deluxes I have seen in a long time.

Remember that Cybertron is just a dub of Galaxy Force. Downshift is a Cybertron-exclusive toy and never released in Japan, therefore he will never appear in the show. Ditto Armourhide.

 

Btw, has Cybertron been dubbed in Dutch? I've seen the very rare Dutch dubs of "More Than Meets The Eye," eheheheh... the audio effects in that were baaaaad. :D

 

joshlowe: It depends. The G1 and G2 comics and cartoons were different continuities. The Beast Wars versus pack comic was a different continuity from the show, but the BotCon comics were in canon with the show, as are the OTFCC comics. As far as I have observed so far, the IDW comics are also supposed to be in canon with the BW cartoon. Something may occur later that clearly establishes it as a separate continuity (e.g.: the death of Magmatron), but until something happens to contradict show continuity, I would consider these comics to be in-canon with the show.

Remember that Cybertron is just a dub of Galaxy Force. Downshift is a Cybertron-exclusive toy and never released in Japan, therefore he will never appear in the show. Ditto Armourhide.

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Cybertron isn't JUST a dub of GF... that's where lots of ppl misconcieve. Plus Menasor and Quickmix are Cyb-exclusive toys that were featured in the show... how do you explain that?

 

 

 

...but I still shudder when I hear "Thunderblast", or her voice, and don't get me started on Override :tfmad

Cybertron isn't JUST a dub of GF... that's where lots of ppl misconcieve. Plus Menasor and Quickmix are Cyb-exclusive toys that were featured in the show... how do you explain that?

 

 

 

...but I still shudder when I hear "Thunderblast", or her voice, and don't get me started on Override :tfmad

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't watch Cybertron, so I didn't know about that. Thanks for the clarification. (^_^)

Having read some of the English G1 comics written by Furman I must say that allthough they are good, can be very complicating and confusing. Especially when one does not know during which US issues a storyline takes place.

 

And some stories are enhanced by Furman's addition. Furman does delve deeper into the retrieval of Starscream by Dreadwing and Darkwind. But that is mainly because he wrote both series.

 

The earlier comics did occasionally clash with the US comic so I keep them seperare for the most part, if not all because it is much more simpler that way.

 

Same for the Japanese comics, not everyone had access to those similar to not everyone having access to the UK comics. I feel that if you are going to make something canonical then release it world wide so that everyone can see/read it.

 

The BW movie did feature Primal but without knowing how he was featured I cannot really comment on that. In Beast Wars, Primal was on his way to join the Matrix but was retrieved by Rhinox.

 

How this was possible I do not know but it had something to do with the tranwarp wave front. So how could he end up on another planet and possibly time?

 

The writers for that movie probably had one major reason for including Primal which is to link their show to the US show. Still, I do not "buy" it as the original writers were not aware of it.

 

I mean how would you feel if you had written one of the coolest cartoons in history only to realize that someone else is using your characters and stories in their own show.

 

And I do not mean simply use them as was done in Universe but actually adding stuff to storylines you wrote and changing them. That would annoy me too.

 

Besides the Japanese shows really contradict the US shows in a few ways. The US shows still use the Matrix but Primal is not carrying it. Its fate is unknown but it is revered above anything else save for possibly Primus.

 

The Japanese shows use the Matrix as well but Big Convoy is actually carrying it. Ok, I can live with that. However, Big Convoy can hook up his cannons to the Matrix boosting their power greatly.

 

Which just rubs me the wrong way. The Matrix is a sacred relic, the most sacred relic in Transformers history, and the Japanese turn it into a powerpack. Or even worse, a weapon.

 

That blatant disgerard of what is established in G1 and in Beast Wars regarding the Matrix makes it really hard for me to see those series as canon. Afterall, they do not treat anything that happened in G1/BW as canon either.

 

In G1 they also treated the Matrix as a powerpack as it had to be charged in Headmasters. The Matrix was emptied, yes but it was up to everyone to refill it with wisdom. The US show never mentioned it being rechargable.

 

Which brings up another question. Why should US fans see the Japanese shows as canon as the Japanese do not see the US shows as canon.

 

There are several examples besides the Matrix most of which are found in G1.

 

 

1 A lot of Autobots who died in the movie are suddenly back.

 

2 Galvatron is no longer insane in Headmasters, not the way he used to be during season 3. He does grow insane after the descruction of Cybertron. He is in fact a completely different character. Galvatron destroyed Starscream for betraying him, yet he does not destroy Megazarak for doing that and destroying Cybertron? Lame  :tdown

 

3 A lot of other characters are also changed. We see Computron but he is just another combiner instead of the living supercomputer that he actually is. The same goes for Cyclonus and Scourge, both creations of Unicron and quite rightly feared by all other Decepticons. Here they are used as comic relief. How disrespectful.

 

 

That is all I can think of for now. Perhaps I will think of more later though if anyone has some to add, feel free to do so.