X-Bob is right. Cybertron is restored by the time of Battlestars - and the fact that Hot Rod is a Micromaster also coincides with the whole "Maximal Upgrade" programme that he pioneers. Indeed, during the Beasties Era, Rodimus is still a Micromaster and on scale with the other BM Transformers and the new BM Wreckers (as seen in X-Bob's signature pic).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

About the japenese Micromasters, IMHO they seem to be more like the size of Bumblebee, than the size of a Minicon

It depends - BWTF sizes vary. Here's a few (all robot mode heights):

Dinobot = 2.9m

Optimus Primal = 2.8m

Inferno = 2.6m

Waspinator = 2.5m

Tarantulas = 2.4m

Cheetor = 2.3m

Tigatron = 2.3m

Rattrap = 1.8m

Megalligator = 1.7m

 

..so as you can see, the Basic sized beasts are around human heights.

 

Micromasters seemed to be around the upper heights of humans - around the 1.9m to 2m mark - judging from the issue where Roadhandler enjoyed a brief period as a professional wrestler and 'fought' against The Jackhammer (aka Jake Jackson).

 

I'm not saying that Maximals and Predacons and Rodimus and his Wreckers are Micromasters, per se, but that the Maximal Upgrade technology is evidently one which has evolved from Micromaster technology. We know that Micromaster technology was one which was created as a means of conserving fuel on Cybertron. We also know that one reason why the BWTFs are so much smaller is because their smaller forms conserve fuel (and why the BWTFs view their ancestors as "Energon guzzlers"). So it's not unreasonable to summise that the Maximal Upgrade technology was one that came from Micromasters - probably a greater improvement on the Micromasters, allowing for even superior conservation of fuel and output of power etc.

 

It's difficult to accurately calculate Bumblebee's height for two reasons: first of all, the size of the G1 Transformers would often vary greatly, due to inconsistencies amongst animators... and secondly, we don't know exactly how tall Spike is. The average American male is 1.8m in height...so presuming that Spike is this tall, and judging from this picture here:

...we can calculate Bumblebee's height as being two metres - which places him as being taller than a Basic BWTF, yet shorter than a Deluxe. So yes, Bumblebee is about the same height as a BWTF - but of course, Bumblebee was always meant to be the smallest Autobot... and being an older Transformer, I'm sure that he would never be as energy-efficient as a Micromaster or BWTF.

so r u guys gonna explain - or just sit there and change the subject - facts really help - pictures of a half way destroyed planet and a battlestars logo don tell me Blot - y don u come down off that stuck up and give some information?

 

edit* I am seriously in shock u give all that info and don back it up with one fact cept for I know d00d - and then start talking about the height of bumblebee and spike*r u guys kidding me?*

It depends - BWTF sizes vary. Here's a few (all robot mode heights):

Dinobot = 2.9m

Optimus Primal = 2.8m

Inferno = 2.6m

Waspinator = 2.5m

Tarantulas = 2.4m

Cheetor = 2.3m

Tigatron = 2.3m

Rattrap = 1.8m

Megalligator = 1.7m

 

..so as you can see, the Basic sized beasts are around human heights.

 

Micromasters seemed to be around the upper heights of humans - around the 1.9m to 2m mark - judging from the issue where Roadhandler enjoyed a brief period as a professional wrestler and 'fought' against The Jackhammer (aka Jake Jackson).

 

I'm not saying that Maximals and Predacons and Rodimus and his Wreckers are Micromasters, per se, but that the Maximal Upgrade technology is evidently one which has evolved from Micromaster technology. We know that Micromaster technology was one which was created as a means of conserving fuel on Cybertron. We also know that one reason why the BWTFs are so much smaller is because their smaller forms conserve fuel (and why the BWTFs view their ancestors as "Energon guzzlers"). So it's not unreasonable to summise that the Maximal Upgrade technology was one that came from Micromasters - probably a greater improvement on the Micromasters, allowing for even superior conservation of fuel and output of power etc.

 

It's difficult to accurately calculate Bumblebee's height for two reasons: first of all, the size of the G1 Transformers would often vary greatly, due to inconsistencies amongst animators... and secondly, we don't know exactly how tall Spike is. The average American male is 1.8m in height...so presuming that Spike is this tall, and judging from this picture here:

...we can calculate Bumblebee's height as being two metres - which places him as being taller than a Basic BWTF, yet shorter than a Deluxe. So yes, Bumblebee is about the same height as a BWTF - but of course, Bumblebee was always meant to be the smallest Autobot... and being an older Transformer, I'm sure that he would never be as energy-efficient as a Micromaster or BWTF.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I genualy use this site when I need an accurate G1 Scale.

And acourding to this screen cap

Micromasters seem to be the same size relitive to humans as Bumblebee and Wheelie are depicted as on the scale sheet.

In conclusion Toy wise, going from a dlx to Micromaster may seem drastic, but not nessasarly  so in the Japenese fiction

I have seen the battlestars manga but not the trans - so I know that convoy shows up with hot rod - if there is an explanation I do not know it - if hot rod started rebuilding cybertron that fact had to come out after Zone - nothing in zone masterforce headmasters[after he left] or victory talk of hot rod again - I have not seen any zone manga so I would not know - but I do know that the first appearance of hot rod shows nothing of him but being there - also - hot rod/rodimus left to find a new homeplanet - not rebuild cybertron - unless the four diff trans I saw were wrong - I have asked alot of stuff and not one person has said a thing but I know this.....come on....

 

I could easily be wrong - the diff is I am accounting what I have seen or read.....not just saying what is without back up.....help me out

 

ruru

It just seems overly coincidental that Rodimus leaves to found another cybertron, and when he shows up again, Cybertron is back. Think they might be related?

no I don't - he specifically says he is going to find a new homeplanet...I guess they may have just created it again but as far as I know cybertron did not show in battlestars as most of what I have seen takes place on earth - but I have not seen the entire thing - here is some

 

http://www.cybertronian-alliance.com/phpBB...t.php?cat_id=32

 

- as far as I know it was never mentioned again that cybertron was rebuilt or ok in battlestars either - I would like to see it.

 

I just wanna know - as far as I know no one is running around with a trans copy of battlestars - I will gladly give anyone a fansubbed DVD of Zone that Karyuudo did - it is really good and I had not seen it before cept in raw - I am hoping TV-nihon finishes victory and headmasters and they of course completed masterforce - with the amount of fansub groups around nowadays a trans of battlestars, zone, and possibly even operation combination may be in our near future - but I would like to know  -this is a hist thread - the history of gen 1 is pretty sour towards the end of jap canon in english even on the net - if we know I think this is the place to share - hook us up please.....

 

ruru

so r u guys gonna explain - or just sit there and change the subject - facts really help - pictures of a half way destroyed planet and a battlestars logo don tell me Blot - y don u come down off that stuck up and give some information?

And why don't you learn to spell... or type.

 

As for the complete history of Transformers, I'm not aware of any one site which explains every continuity in detail. Rob Jung's site will give you a brief summary.

 

Ultimately, you just need to go read all the comics and watch the cartoons if you want to truly understand Transformer lore.

 

My answer to the question was the link to my TF: Bible site, which essentially encapsulates everything I know about Transformers theological history. The current conversation has spawned off from that link, and is thus still relevant to the overall topic of TF history.

 

If you believe this thread has gone off topic on a major tangent, then I'm sure a moderator will come lock this thread or delete it. Feel free to file a complaint with a board mod if you think this is the case.

 

I genualy use this site when I need an accurate G1 Scale.

According to that link, Bumble appears to be 1.6 times the height of Spike. Now presuming that Spike is 180cm, that would make Bumblebee approx. 288cm, making him nearly as tall as Dinobot - who is quite large by BWTF standards.

 

So Bumblebee is the size of a large BWTF.

 

At any rate, the point I'm making is that the Micromasters were the forerunners for the BWTFs - not only in terms of their significant size reduction, but primarily because both Micromasters and BWTFs were designed to be more fuel efficient. Bumblebee's size may be comparable with a Micromaster's or a BWTF's, but his Energon pump's fuel efficiency is not. He's no Trailbreaker, but G1 canon specifically stated that the Micromasters were the first generation of size-reduced Transformers intentionally built to conserve Energon.

 

As for Cybertron - yes, in The Headmasters, Rodimus Convoy does leave what's left of Cybertron to find a new planet for the Transformers to live on. However, who's to say that he succeeded? That may have been the original intention of his mission, but it's entirely possible that during his voyage, he Kup and Blurr may have inadvertantly discovered a way to rebuild Cybertron.

 

Atm, canon does not provide enough evidence to support or deny this theory. All we officially know is that Rodimus, Kup and Blurr left the remains of Cybertron to find a new world, and by the Battlestars era, there is a new Cybertron. Is this Cybertron the old one rebuilt or a new planet terraformed into a new Cybertron? Canonical evidence would suggest the former. Beast Machines clearly shows that BW/M Cybertron is the same Cybertron that the TFs have always lived on - thus according to the laws of retcon (retrospective continuity), the Cybertron we see in Battlestars must be the original Cybertron rebuilt - so until canon proves otherwise, we can accept this explanation.

One must also remember the Oracle, the mythical super-computer that foretold the coming of the Transformers to Cybertron. Presumably it was within Cybertron's core but thought to be lost for centuries.

 

Optimus Primal and the Maximals rediscovered it but has Cybertron been rebuilt, the Transformers should have known about it.

 

Same with the organic core which was also mentioned in Beast Machines in which we learn that Cybertron was once organic and that it was now Primal's mission to restore the organic part of Cybertron.

 

During a reconstruction they must have found out about any organic parts.

 

Which would indicate that the Japanese cartoons do not match what is later established in Beast Wars/Beast Machines.

so r u guys gonna explain - or just sit there and change the subject - facts really help - pictures of a half way destroyed planet and a battlestars logo don tell me Blot - y don u come down off that stuck up and give some information?

And why don't you learn to spell... or type.

 

As for the complete history of Transformers, I'm not aware of any one site which explains every continuity in detail. Rob Jung's site will give you a brief summary.

 

Ultimately, you just need to go read all the comics and watch the cartoons if you want to truly understand Transformer lore.

 

My answer to the question was the link to my TF: Bible site, which essentially encapsulates everything I know about Transformers theological history. The current conversation has spawned off from that link, and is thus still relevant to the overall topic of TF history.

 

If you believe this thread has gone off topic on a major tangent, then I'm sure a moderator will come lock this thread or delete it. Feel free to file a complaint with a board mod if you think this is the case.

 

I genualy use this site when I need an accurate G1 Scale.

According to that link, Bumble appears to be 1.6 times the height of Spike. Now presuming that Spike is 180cm, that would make Bumblebee approx. 288cm, making him nearly as tall as Dinobot - who is quite large by BWTF standards.

 

So Bumblebee is the size of a large BWTF.

 

At any rate, the point I'm making is that the Micromasters were the forerunners for the BWTFs - not only in terms of their significant size reduction, but primarily because both Micromasters and BWTFs were designed to be more fuel efficient. Bumblebee's size may be comparable with a Micromaster's or a BWTF's, but his Energon pump's fuel efficiency is not. He's no Trailbreaker, but G1 canon specifically stated that the Micromasters were the first generation of size-reduced Transformers intentionally built to conserve Energon.

 

As for Cybertron - yes, in The Headmasters, Rodimus Convoy does leave what's left of Cybertron to find a new planet for the Transformers to live on. However, who's to say that he succeeded? That may have been the original intention of his mission, but it's entirely possible that during his voyage, he Kup and Blurr may have inadvertantly discovered a way to rebuild Cybertron.

 

Atm, canon does not provide enough evidence to support or deny this theory. All we officially know is that Rodimus, Kup and Blurr left the remains of Cybertron to find a new world, and by the Battlestars era, there is a new Cybertron. Is this Cybertron the old one rebuilt or a new planet terraformed into a new Cybertron? Canonical evidence would suggest the former. Beast Machines clearly shows that BW/M Cybertron is the same Cybertron that the TFs have always lived on - thus according to the laws of retcon (retrospective continuity), the Cybertron we see in Battlestars must be the original Cybertron rebuilt - so until canon proves otherwise, we can accept this explanation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

ok Goki - I am hoping u work as an english teacher - that is two threads u have dogged me for abbreviating u and y - lol - this is a transformer forum - get over the spelling - it is not like I even misspelled something - I did that on purpose - that u would even have to say that says alot about u.....

 

now lets get into something on topic -

 

I think U just agreed with X-bob and have no idea what u r talking about - I do not think Cybertron shows up in battlestars - as of yet, u have not backed up one thing u said - u have completely changed the subject and your only protest to what I said was that I should not abbreviate u - u were even wrong calling it a misspelling - it was not - if u need definitions of the words abbreviate and misspell - check www.dictionary.com

 

sadly u have yet to give one fact to support your little theory here but honestly I think u just thought to follow what or who u know and jumped on a bandwagon - now u wanna give some fact or just Starscream about spelling - this is a trans board - I am sure there are some good spelling forums u can visit to argue with people about how they choose to abbreviate stuff......o yeah - and I spelled don't don - I do that alot too - does that get to u?  lol.  give some information instead of Starscreaming about abbreviation and chaging the subject - I think u were wrong - are u even gonna try and back your assumption up?

 

Pretty much d00d u r acting like a stuck up little smarty pants kid who thought he was right and found he was not - just admit u don know what u r talking about and lets move on shall we?

 

At least X-bob stayed on subject never went into petty stuff - he backed up what he thought with facts, links, and even pictures - that is all I ask - I don wanna argue about how I choose to type - if u were my english teacher we could get into this all day - just don wanna on a trans thread......