I also thought that the Matrix held the collective sparks for ALL of the deceased Autobots, not just the leader like Optimus. That is why the Autobot phrase we all so love, “Till All Are One� is more than just a catchy saying, it actually meant IMHO, someday all of the Autobots in the form of their spark, would be reunited within the Matrix itself. Thoughts?

:pfx And the Matrix was carried by the Primes that I mentioned previously.

So how many Autobot sparks do you think existed within the Matrix by the time it was used in the movie? Just curious.

Known CONVOYs to carry a Matrix

 

Convoy/Hero Convoy/Laser Convoy/Gobots Convoy

Rodimus Convoy

Convoy(beast)

LioConvoy

BigConvoy

HyperConvoy

CrowConvoy

Memebers of the Convoy Concile

Fire Convoy

Convoy/Grand Convoy

Galaxy Convoy

It never said he DIDN'T have a matrix

lets put our facts together

-From ONLY the US countuitcy

Looked like Prime(all Primes have Matrixis)

was named Optimus Primal(all Optimus Primes have Matrixis)

had a matrix-shaped structure in his chest

 

Those facts(along with the BWII movie) PROVE that Primal had a Matrix.

but he is not a Prime, that's been said in both the show and by the creators. Optimus Primal is in no way connected to Optimus Prime nor is he a Prime that possesses the Matrix. He simply chose a name similar to Optimus' as a symbolic gesture of his admiration for the character. All this is part of the Beast Wars continuity. Yes, he looked like Prime. So what, Megatron looked like G1 Megatron and he's not connected to him either. He took his name from the datatracks as a symbol as well. And BWII is part of a separate continuity, just cuz he has a matrix there does not prove anything about the Beast Wars we had here in America.

The almighty Primes were dropping like flys in the tv show!  I mean in the one when prime comes back two life what were there about 2 to 3 hundred primes?  Did A3 have the matrix?  Why didn't primus boot the quints off off of himself?  How did the quints make the transformers when primus did?  Why didn't unicron show up earlier?  And who are the rest of the first 13 transformers?  Why doesn't primus ever transform?  Could cybertron's moons tranform, and if they did, did they become weapons, or other robots?

Primus hid himself from Unicron, so Unicron enlisted the Quintessons to go out and find Primus. They did, and instead of reporting back to Unicron, they enslaved Cybertron and all the Transformers. Then they made it look like they were responsible for the creation of the TFs, even though they were not. Primus was sealed away in the core of Cybertron to prevent Unicron from detecting him. If he took any action, Unicron would be able to locate him. Unicron had been banished through a black hole, and even though he had been "banished" he would be able to detect Primus' energies and find him. In the comic, there were no more than a half dozen Primes. After all, Optimus and most other TFs have been around for several million years. A3 turned out to be Alpha Trion, and some suspect that he was in fact Alpha Prime. But that hasn't been confirmed yet. We don't know who the rest of the 13 are, besides the Fallen, Liege Maximo, and Maccadam. Primus never transformed because he prefers to be at one with the universe, but it's rumored that he may in fact have a robot mode. We have no idea if the moons transform.

yeah, but in beast machines, it was claimed that cybertron was once organic.

I HATE!!! the Idea of Primus Making the TFs himself, that is just wrong! :fire

 

If I was in charge of the Mythos, Primus would have *infleuanced* the Quints to make the TFs, and intesell there sparks in them through victersigma.

The almighty Primes were dropping like flys in the tv show!   I mean in the one when prime comes back two life what were there about 2 to 3 hundred primes?   Did A3 have the matrix?   Why didn't primus boot the quints off off of himself?   How did the quints make the transformers when primus did?   Why didn't unicron show up earlier?   And who are the rest of the first 13 transformers?   Why doesn't primus ever transform?  Could cybertron's moons tranform, and if they did, did they become weapons, or other robots?

Primus hid himself from Unicron, so Unicron enlisted the Quintessons to go out and find Primus. They did, and instead of reporting back to Unicron, they enslaved Cybertron and all the Transformers. Then they made it look like they were responsible for the creation of the TFs, even though they were not. Primus was sealed away in the core of Cybertron to prevent Unicron from detecting him. If he took any action, Unicron would be able to locate him. Unicron had been banished through a black hole, and even though he had been "banished" he would be able to detect Primus' energies and find him. In the comic, there were no more than a half dozen Primes. After all, Optimus and most other TFs have been around for several million years. A3 turned out to be Alpha Trion, and some suspect that he was in fact Alpha Prime. But that hasn't been confirmed yet. We don't know who the rest of the 13 are, besides the Fallen, Liege Maximo, and Maccadam. Primus never transformed because he prefers to be at one with the universe, but it's rumored that he may in fact have a robot mode. We have no idea if the moons transform.

yeah, but in beast machines, it was claimed that cybertron was once organic.

well, the planetoids that Primus and Unicron inhabited were organic.

Im not sure the autobot faction even existed before the war, i cant find any reference to them actually being `autobots` (thats not to say it doesnt, just that i cant find it ;)) thus wouldnt that make the `autobot matrix of leadership only as old as the war

In the cartoon the Autobots were manual laber robots, and the Decepticons were Military ones.

But all this talk about gods and souls and such is a bit much.

You're telling me that you don't have a problem with robots that walk, talk, and transform into a variety of vehicles and weapons just as long as they don't have souls or gods. Dude, this is scifi we're talking about. And in scifi, every alien race has their own philosophy and religion.

 

I gotta say I don't know what to believe. I know that TFs are more than just robots beating the snot out of each other... obiviously they have to have a soul if they have emotion.

I guess it all depends on what is meant by a "soul".